06-24-2010, 12:01 AM
lex icon wrote:If anyone wants to "dart past the eagle" this is the kind of close examination that needs to occur. I know of no other way.
Ok, I see now how to clarify the discrepancy between what we are saying.
I'm saying if "no being" is over emphasized, then the nihilist view can become conceptualized. No being, no purpose, no life to "evolve" or transcend, no reason to do anything, its not real, no being blahhhh.
But to speak of being...just as bad...inherent existence and all the traps with that.
So what are we speaking of? You are I are speaking of the same thing actually. You, I will admit, have a firmer grasp, and your recent posts got me to think about it deeper. I see why you are emphasizing non-being. Here is what I think a nihilist POV would wrestle with though...which is why I said what I said...
If anyone wants to "dart past the
eagle"
Nihilist thought would say, who is anyone? There is no "anyone". And essentialist thought would say...see I knew there was a someone after all!...all this talk of no being is BS.
Ok, so who is anyone? Who is Buddha? No one. Who was Buddha before he was Buddha? No one. What the hell?, lol. Who can obtain Buddhahood then? Or who could dart past the eagle then? Or more likely the case, how can a warrior identified with inherent exisitence of the energy body do such a feat as dart past the eagle?
So we are really leading towards is the 5 aggregates, which you told me about when we first began discussing Nagarjuna. 5 aggregates: form, sensation, perception, mental formations and consciousness.
These 5 act interdependently as an appearance of an "I" and it is this appearance, this illusional "I" that is like a vehicle of transport for these interdependent aggregates to be purified of ignorance via efforts put forth (seeking enlightenment) in phenomenal exisitence. Once ignorance if fully ended, no more grasping and cyclic exisitence. Then darting past the eagle, entering nirvana are the outcomes. "I" provided the purpose. Still there is no being, like you said. I just had to clarify in my own words this other aspect that is my own experience of having overcome the nihilist trap of thinking there is nothing to be done then. And how when compensating for this, one can end up back in an essentialist view due to the constant flux of phenomena experienced daily that will confirm the "I"'s existence.
Ok, I see now how to clarify the discrepancy between what we are saying.
I'm saying if "no being" is over emphasized, then the nihilist view can become conceptualized. No being, no purpose, no life to "evolve" or transcend, no reason to do anything, its not real, no being blahhhh.
But to speak of being...just as bad...inherent existence and all the traps with that.
So what are we speaking of? You are I are speaking of the same thing actually. You, I will admit, have a firmer grasp, and your recent posts got me to think about it deeper. I see why you are emphasizing non-being. Here is what I think a nihilist POV would wrestle with though...which is why I said what I said...
If anyone wants to "dart past the
eagle"
Nihilist thought would say, who is anyone? There is no "anyone". And essentialist thought would say...see I knew there was a someone after all!...all this talk of no being is BS.
Ok, so who is anyone? Who is Buddha? No one. Who was Buddha before he was Buddha? No one. What the hell?, lol. Who can obtain Buddhahood then? Or who could dart past the eagle then? Or more likely the case, how can a warrior identified with inherent exisitence of the energy body do such a feat as dart past the eagle?
So we are really leading towards is the 5 aggregates, which you told me about when we first began discussing Nagarjuna. 5 aggregates: form, sensation, perception, mental formations and consciousness.
These 5 act interdependently as an appearance of an "I" and it is this appearance, this illusional "I" that is like a vehicle of transport for these interdependent aggregates to be purified of ignorance via efforts put forth (seeking enlightenment) in phenomenal exisitence. Once ignorance if fully ended, no more grasping and cyclic exisitence. Then darting past the eagle, entering nirvana are the outcomes. "I" provided the purpose. Still there is no being, like you said. I just had to clarify in my own words this other aspect that is my own experience of having overcome the nihilist trap of thinking there is nothing to be done then. And how when compensating for this, one can end up back in an essentialist view due to the constant flux of phenomena experienced daily that will confirm the "I"'s existence.