06-29-2010, 12:01 AM
A living creature is a bubble of perception living within a certain range of emanations. Nemo
Nemo, I could ask you, “What is Intent?” and you would respond with something like, “It’s inconceivable”, so I won’t ask that but I will ask what makes you think there is anything called Intent with a capital I? How do you know of this Intent? I am not asking about what we normally consider as intent in the respect of intentions or intending to do something. Why do you refer to this Intent as Intent even?
So here is where we differ Lex, my experience is that the internal dialogue recedes and my body engages the emanations at large nemo
My internal dialogue also “recedes” yet it would be a leap of faith to imagine that my body (itself objectively perceived) engages these emanations that do not exist yet represent the immutable.
I believe DJ was referencing out there from a third perspective, that does not imply an in here. Nemo
Why do you believe this? What is this 3rd perspective? I have been exploring what is “considered to exist out there” and found nothing but mere appearances.
Secondly you are mixing Buddhism with a system that does its best to not get into karmic references. Nemo
Buddhism seems less inclined to fantasy. I hope you don’t think I was talking about living a life for 60 or so years then dying and being reborn because I thought I was clear about that in the opening paragraph. If you prefer the word consequences instead of Karma that’s fine. The consequences of ignorance produce grasping and craving after existence resulting in cyclic being which is fantasy.
Notions of existence are formed in the world of the first attention. Nemo
But when these notions of existence are applied to 2nd and 3rd attention with the same carelessness, delusions are just compounded. IE; there is existence...magical and mysterious, in which 1st, 2nd and 3rd attentions operate. Perceptions and attentions might be probed but not the notion of existence. This is why I have maintained that it is not enough to merely switch perceptions, IE; switching perception of physical for perception of luminous.
Lex have you read the The Six Explanatory Propositions? Yes.
The teachings of Don Juan were meant to guide me through the second stage of a warrior's development: the verification and unrestricted acceptance that within us lies another type of awareness. This stage was divided into two categories.
1. What we perceive as the world are the Eagle's emanations.
Don Juan explained to me that the world we perceive does not have a transcendental existence.
This is what I have been pointing out! It is empty and dependently originates. It is compounded.
Since we are familiarized with it we believe that what we perceive is a world of objects which exist such as we perceive them,
Yes but why do we perceive such an objective existence as “real”? Perceiving objects as energetic or luminous still does not address their existence.
when in reality there is not a world of objects, but, rather, a universe of Eagle's emanations.
OK so what are emanations?
These emanations (effect) represent the only immutable reality (1st cause).
A REPRESENTATION of the only immutable reality????
This is very murky! Would you care to expound on this Nemo?
It is a reality that encompasses all that is, perceivable and unperceivable, knowable and unknowable.
Seers who see the Eagle's emanations call them commands because of their urging force.
How do seers or how do you see the Eagle’s emanations?
All living creatures are urged to use the emanations, and they use them without getting to know what they are. (hmmm??) Ordinary men interpret them as reality. And seers who see the emanations interpret them as the rule. In spite that seers see the emanations, they don't have a way of knowing what it is they are seeing.
Convenient when pressed to account for one’s beliefs.
Instead of entangling themselves with useless conjectures, seers occupy themselves in the functional speculation of how the Eagle's commands can be interpreted.
This is the kind non-sense over which I take issue with Castaneda. He prefers “functional speculation” lol, over useless conjectures.
Don Juan sustained that to intuit a reality which transcends the world we perceive stays at the level of conjecture; it is not enough for a warrior to conjecture that the Eagle's commands are instantly perceived by all creatures that live on Earth, and that none of them perceives them in the same way.
Warriors must try to behold the flow of emanations and "see" the way in which man and other living beings use it to build their perceptual world.
Now I don’t care for the use of the word emanations but could easily work with it if it wasn’t used so ambiguously. What I have been pointing out since I began this thread is an insistence on knowing how we perceive and why and how our perceptual world is built. This world of objects is not what it appears to be! It is important to know why and what to do about it.
Thank you for engaging Nemo!!
Nemo, I could ask you, “What is Intent?” and you would respond with something like, “It’s inconceivable”, so I won’t ask that but I will ask what makes you think there is anything called Intent with a capital I? How do you know of this Intent? I am not asking about what we normally consider as intent in the respect of intentions or intending to do something. Why do you refer to this Intent as Intent even?
So here is where we differ Lex, my experience is that the internal dialogue recedes and my body engages the emanations at large nemo
My internal dialogue also “recedes” yet it would be a leap of faith to imagine that my body (itself objectively perceived) engages these emanations that do not exist yet represent the immutable.
I believe DJ was referencing out there from a third perspective, that does not imply an in here. Nemo
Why do you believe this? What is this 3rd perspective? I have been exploring what is “considered to exist out there” and found nothing but mere appearances.
Secondly you are mixing Buddhism with a system that does its best to not get into karmic references. Nemo
Buddhism seems less inclined to fantasy. I hope you don’t think I was talking about living a life for 60 or so years then dying and being reborn because I thought I was clear about that in the opening paragraph. If you prefer the word consequences instead of Karma that’s fine. The consequences of ignorance produce grasping and craving after existence resulting in cyclic being which is fantasy.
Notions of existence are formed in the world of the first attention. Nemo
But when these notions of existence are applied to 2nd and 3rd attention with the same carelessness, delusions are just compounded. IE; there is existence...magical and mysterious, in which 1st, 2nd and 3rd attentions operate. Perceptions and attentions might be probed but not the notion of existence. This is why I have maintained that it is not enough to merely switch perceptions, IE; switching perception of physical for perception of luminous.
Lex have you read the The Six Explanatory Propositions? Yes.
The teachings of Don Juan were meant to guide me through the second stage of a warrior's development: the verification and unrestricted acceptance that within us lies another type of awareness. This stage was divided into two categories.
1. What we perceive as the world are the Eagle's emanations.
Don Juan explained to me that the world we perceive does not have a transcendental existence.
This is what I have been pointing out! It is empty and dependently originates. It is compounded.
Since we are familiarized with it we believe that what we perceive is a world of objects which exist such as we perceive them,
Yes but why do we perceive such an objective existence as “real”? Perceiving objects as energetic or luminous still does not address their existence.
when in reality there is not a world of objects, but, rather, a universe of Eagle's emanations.
OK so what are emanations?
These emanations (effect) represent the only immutable reality (1st cause).
A REPRESENTATION of the only immutable reality????
This is very murky! Would you care to expound on this Nemo?
It is a reality that encompasses all that is, perceivable and unperceivable, knowable and unknowable.
Seers who see the Eagle's emanations call them commands because of their urging force.
How do seers or how do you see the Eagle’s emanations?
All living creatures are urged to use the emanations, and they use them without getting to know what they are. (hmmm??) Ordinary men interpret them as reality. And seers who see the emanations interpret them as the rule. In spite that seers see the emanations, they don't have a way of knowing what it is they are seeing.
Convenient when pressed to account for one’s beliefs.
Instead of entangling themselves with useless conjectures, seers occupy themselves in the functional speculation of how the Eagle's commands can be interpreted.
This is the kind non-sense over which I take issue with Castaneda. He prefers “functional speculation” lol, over useless conjectures.
Don Juan sustained that to intuit a reality which transcends the world we perceive stays at the level of conjecture; it is not enough for a warrior to conjecture that the Eagle's commands are instantly perceived by all creatures that live on Earth, and that none of them perceives them in the same way.
Warriors must try to behold the flow of emanations and "see" the way in which man and other living beings use it to build their perceptual world.
Now I don’t care for the use of the word emanations but could easily work with it if it wasn’t used so ambiguously. What I have been pointing out since I began this thread is an insistence on knowing how we perceive and why and how our perceptual world is built. This world of objects is not what it appears to be! It is important to know why and what to do about it.
Thank you for engaging Nemo!!