07-16-2010, 12:03 AM
ninth octave wrote:".. So again I think you are grossly misinterpreting things and its all within your own view and nothing allowed into your field of perception." Tiff
Tiff,
Since this is going well past #200 post, you or even Lex have not demonstrated or actualized any new perception. So it does appear as I never understood a single word Nagarjuna said but I helped him drink his wine.
Perception is each of our expereinces ninth and we each have to do the "inner work" to alter our perception. My perception is being altering when I interact at this forum. Whether the people I intereact with agree or disagree with me, I gain the benefit of shift in perception...seeing new angles and also the act of communicating my own perception to them helps me see it clearly.
"Fullness. Why can't this fullness be empty of essence? Why do you see empty as desolate, null, void? I have never spoken of it this way." Tiff
Contrast as in either full or empty are really the same thing, like off and on, like yin and yang. etc. The same truth is always equanimized
from both ends or views using counterpoint to extract truth.
"Are you not truly reading my words and instead bouncing your own ideas off and back to your own ideas off and back to yourself without taking anything new in?" Seems so to me." ...Tiff
Are you serious here even though you place a smiley face after the fact? Only its your tone that suggest you have that old elitist edge that you had over at PP.
I'm never serious Nothing is so important to be so serious about. I do **** though. I do stupid things sometimes. Have emotion sometimes. But towards Gonzo I can say I have not had any serious emotions. Whenever I smile in person I put a smiley face in text I have not been analyzing what it means. Whether you see me as elitist or not (perhaps I'm an elitist parrot, lol), I still contend this is not PP, this is SW, so I'm more interested in the topics, if you want to get into elitism, remember that's more like PP's approach. So maybe its time you saw you are doing PP stuff in what you are choosing to focus your attention on. You don't have to focus on elitism, we can stay on discussing Nagarjuna, because truth is, realizing emptiness directly alleviates any and all afflictions eventually as long as the person stays with it. They don't need to do all that confrontation stuff we learned at PP. A person just needs to end the grasping, and this is done by understanding things are not as they are appearing to be, once this is seen, over and over again (don't by any means think its a one shot deal, it takes hard work and continuous effort, like anything else in life), so many things unravel and no longer bother.
My question would be are people suppose to take words in their black and white literal sense the way they are presented to them and then analyze the death out of them till they no longer make sense or exist to the mind? This is an emptying , void , null , zero processing. This could be like emptying the sieve of unnecessary words and objects. This mimics the obsessive compulsive disorder when words create and attach themselves to take on form or object.
Please give a an example of how Nagarjuna works in reality.It just appears as all talking in circles for now without any real example to see.
In reality...if I were jealous of another person, what would be occurring is an identity with individual essences, grasping at that. After reading Nagarjuna and Agent and Action for example, I would see that an individual essence could not interact, it would be permanent and unable to, so I know from this there are no individual essences separately acting upon one another, so my grasping at the ideas of the other person being separate and independent and thus "having what I have not" would be false, and then I could drop the focus this way, because we in truth are interdependent without any essence. If you want to find this out for yourself first hand, my words can't take you there and I never claimed they would, you truly have to read Nagarjuna until the shift in perception occurs. This is totally your decision, I cannot make it happen for you. I can only talk about it and my own experience. I have another post I made a while ago, it talked about the advantages of realizing emptiness directly. I will fish it up and repost for you. It's another example of how realizing emptiness (in Mahayana understanding) works in reality.
PS. I thought that the line about the steak, wine and good cigar that Gonzo mentioned would make a good quotable quote for a movie line. It is obvious I don't watch too many movies to know the source of the quotes . lol, who cares anyway.
Tiff,
Since this is going well past #200 post, you or even Lex have not demonstrated or actualized any new perception. So it does appear as I never understood a single word Nagarjuna said but I helped him drink his wine.
Perception is each of our expereinces ninth and we each have to do the "inner work" to alter our perception. My perception is being altering when I interact at this forum. Whether the people I intereact with agree or disagree with me, I gain the benefit of shift in perception...seeing new angles and also the act of communicating my own perception to them helps me see it clearly.
"Fullness. Why can't this fullness be empty of essence? Why do you see empty as desolate, null, void? I have never spoken of it this way." Tiff
Contrast as in either full or empty are really the same thing, like off and on, like yin and yang. etc. The same truth is always equanimized
from both ends or views using counterpoint to extract truth.
"Are you not truly reading my words and instead bouncing your own ideas off and back to your own ideas off and back to yourself without taking anything new in?" Seems so to me." ...Tiff
Are you serious here even though you place a smiley face after the fact? Only its your tone that suggest you have that old elitist edge that you had over at PP.
I'm never serious Nothing is so important to be so serious about. I do **** though. I do stupid things sometimes. Have emotion sometimes. But towards Gonzo I can say I have not had any serious emotions. Whenever I smile in person I put a smiley face in text I have not been analyzing what it means. Whether you see me as elitist or not (perhaps I'm an elitist parrot, lol), I still contend this is not PP, this is SW, so I'm more interested in the topics, if you want to get into elitism, remember that's more like PP's approach. So maybe its time you saw you are doing PP stuff in what you are choosing to focus your attention on. You don't have to focus on elitism, we can stay on discussing Nagarjuna, because truth is, realizing emptiness directly alleviates any and all afflictions eventually as long as the person stays with it. They don't need to do all that confrontation stuff we learned at PP. A person just needs to end the grasping, and this is done by understanding things are not as they are appearing to be, once this is seen, over and over again (don't by any means think its a one shot deal, it takes hard work and continuous effort, like anything else in life), so many things unravel and no longer bother.
My question would be are people suppose to take words in their black and white literal sense the way they are presented to them and then analyze the death out of them till they no longer make sense or exist to the mind? This is an emptying , void , null , zero processing. This could be like emptying the sieve of unnecessary words and objects. This mimics the obsessive compulsive disorder when words create and attach themselves to take on form or object.
Please give a an example of how Nagarjuna works in reality.It just appears as all talking in circles for now without any real example to see.
In reality...if I were jealous of another person, what would be occurring is an identity with individual essences, grasping at that. After reading Nagarjuna and Agent and Action for example, I would see that an individual essence could not interact, it would be permanent and unable to, so I know from this there are no individual essences separately acting upon one another, so my grasping at the ideas of the other person being separate and independent and thus "having what I have not" would be false, and then I could drop the focus this way, because we in truth are interdependent without any essence. If you want to find this out for yourself first hand, my words can't take you there and I never claimed they would, you truly have to read Nagarjuna until the shift in perception occurs. This is totally your decision, I cannot make it happen for you. I can only talk about it and my own experience. I have another post I made a while ago, it talked about the advantages of realizing emptiness directly. I will fish it up and repost for you. It's another example of how realizing emptiness (in Mahayana understanding) works in reality.
PS. I thought that the line about the steak, wine and good cigar that Gonzo mentioned would make a good quotable quote for a movie line. It is obvious I don't watch too many movies to know the source of the quotes . lol, who cares anyway.