07-19-2010, 12:04 AM
Gonzo wrote:
Perhaps this comes down to goals, including the definition of enlightenment. In a general sense, from what has been posted, it would seem the commentaries of Nagarjuna are aimed at helping readers achieve enlightenment as defined by Gautama's attainment. It took me a while to realize and to accept for myself that I have no interest in achieving enlightenment if it results in what appears to be Gautama's achievement. That may be the fault of historians,but it doesn't matter. The same may be said of Jesus' attainment. The net result is a gray sort of existence reminiscent of "reality" in "Matrix", tattered robes, bland food, cramped surroundings and all. (There were many "messages" in that movie, btw.)
One of the things missing is joy. The other is lack of sensuality. I've said before, I'm here for the mud, the blood and the beer, the red wine, the raw steak, and the cigar. It's impossible to imagine the awakened ones, as currently portrayed, engaging in any sensual pleasures, rather they eschew them. The same is true of enjoying material things. That's not my idea of enlightenment, and in a way, one reason for not studying Nagarjuna.
Elsewhere (on my own forum) I defined enlightenment as "genuine contentment". That allows the world to be exactly as it is, regardless how anyone chooses to interpret it. It also allows for acceptance of one's self, essentially the achievement of the primary goal according to don Juan: to achieve the totality of oneself.I like my steaks bloody pink too. Helps with low iron level but maybe only once a week is my justification. lol. May I point out that Nagarjuna was also a physician.
I have learned how to "cut down the steak in to very small bites"- especially after reading this what not to do with desire excerpt from Nagarjuna's "Good Hearted Letters " w/ explanatory notes. I think this stanza of reasoning could eventually rid any one desire if we view it as closely as this.Like the woman in the red dress syndrome that "Mouse"in the Matrix movie fucked up with.
XXV. Look upon body of a young woman apart from ornaments (and clothing) like a totally impure vessel covered with skin, difficult to satisfy, bad smelling, and with impurities issuing from the nine (bodily doors).
Consider the remedy for the desire for others.( steak too) Although a man or woman or steak , may appear beautiful, reflect on impurity. The body of a man or woman or cow or bull, is just a heap of flesh, bones, blood, and the like. Therefore, such a body is really similar to a beautiful vase filled with impurities.
Perhaps this comes down to goals, including the definition of enlightenment. In a general sense, from what has been posted, it would seem the commentaries of Nagarjuna are aimed at helping readers achieve enlightenment as defined by Gautama's attainment. It took me a while to realize and to accept for myself that I have no interest in achieving enlightenment if it results in what appears to be Gautama's achievement. That may be the fault of historians,but it doesn't matter. The same may be said of Jesus' attainment. The net result is a gray sort of existence reminiscent of "reality" in "Matrix", tattered robes, bland food, cramped surroundings and all. (There were many "messages" in that movie, btw.)
One of the things missing is joy. The other is lack of sensuality. I've said before, I'm here for the mud, the blood and the beer, the red wine, the raw steak, and the cigar. It's impossible to imagine the awakened ones, as currently portrayed, engaging in any sensual pleasures, rather they eschew them. The same is true of enjoying material things. That's not my idea of enlightenment, and in a way, one reason for not studying Nagarjuna.
Elsewhere (on my own forum) I defined enlightenment as "genuine contentment". That allows the world to be exactly as it is, regardless how anyone chooses to interpret it. It also allows for acceptance of one's self, essentially the achievement of the primary goal according to don Juan: to achieve the totality of oneself.I like my steaks bloody pink too. Helps with low iron level but maybe only once a week is my justification. lol. May I point out that Nagarjuna was also a physician.
I have learned how to "cut down the steak in to very small bites"- especially after reading this what not to do with desire excerpt from Nagarjuna's "Good Hearted Letters " w/ explanatory notes. I think this stanza of reasoning could eventually rid any one desire if we view it as closely as this.Like the woman in the red dress syndrome that "Mouse"in the Matrix movie fucked up with.
XXV. Look upon body of a young woman apart from ornaments (and clothing) like a totally impure vessel covered with skin, difficult to satisfy, bad smelling, and with impurities issuing from the nine (bodily doors).
Consider the remedy for the desire for others.( steak too) Although a man or woman or steak , may appear beautiful, reflect on impurity. The body of a man or woman or cow or bull, is just a heap of flesh, bones, blood, and the like. Therefore, such a body is really similar to a beautiful vase filled with impurities.