07-23-2010, 12:05 AM
"Nothing is permanent...the essence of being is change." ~Gonzo
"To me, each of us has a permanent nature." ~Gonzo
Gonzo, in your belief are these "permanent natures" separate from each other? How does "essence of being" change from its essence to be still its essence of being?
Tiff wrote:You, Gonzo, think of perception as the ultimate.I do? I think of working towards getting off the wheel of death and rebirth and moving on to other levels of effort.
Can you be more specific about what this entails? How does one get of the wheel of death and rebirth, and what exactly are other levels of effort?
Tiff wrote:But upon examination its seen that perception is the flux of objects reflected by thought.It is? I don't see it that way.
How do you see it then?
Tiff wrote:
However, there is a constant that can account for reflection upon of
sound and silence, light and darkness, large and small etc. Duality is
not the end of the road, there is beyond this duality an experience not
dependent on the dual equation. This constant is still part of dependent
arising but it is permanent, whereas perception is impermanent.Says who?
Direct experience. This is a meditation practice anyone can do, so its not just "Kuan Yin discovered this", to try this the experience would be realized:
"Kuan Yin's ultimate realization was it was her sense of hearing consciousness
that made it possible to detect both the sounds and the silence
(because silence is a sound too). If silence were a true cessation of
sounds then the returning of the surf would not have been possible. So
in conclusion, Kuan Yin understood her sense of hearing was the
constant, permanent and unchangeable aspect that enabled perception to
occur. Furthermore, this ability was not dependent on the presence of or
absence of sounds."
If we depended on sounds, when sound ceased we would become deaf. If we depended on light, when utter darkness (in a cave for example) occurred, we would be blind thereafter. Thus there is a constant consciousness that accounts for both and is not dependent upon the sustainability of either one.
"To me, each of us has a permanent nature." ~Gonzo
Gonzo, in your belief are these "permanent natures" separate from each other? How does "essence of being" change from its essence to be still its essence of being?
Tiff wrote:You, Gonzo, think of perception as the ultimate.I do? I think of working towards getting off the wheel of death and rebirth and moving on to other levels of effort.
Can you be more specific about what this entails? How does one get of the wheel of death and rebirth, and what exactly are other levels of effort?
Tiff wrote:But upon examination its seen that perception is the flux of objects reflected by thought.It is? I don't see it that way.
How do you see it then?
Tiff wrote:
However, there is a constant that can account for reflection upon of
sound and silence, light and darkness, large and small etc. Duality is
not the end of the road, there is beyond this duality an experience not
dependent on the dual equation. This constant is still part of dependent
arising but it is permanent, whereas perception is impermanent.Says who?
Direct experience. This is a meditation practice anyone can do, so its not just "Kuan Yin discovered this", to try this the experience would be realized:
"Kuan Yin's ultimate realization was it was her sense of hearing consciousness
that made it possible to detect both the sounds and the silence
(because silence is a sound too). If silence were a true cessation of
sounds then the returning of the surf would not have been possible. So
in conclusion, Kuan Yin understood her sense of hearing was the
constant, permanent and unchangeable aspect that enabled perception to
occur. Furthermore, this ability was not dependent on the presence of or
absence of sounds."
If we depended on sounds, when sound ceased we would become deaf. If we depended on light, when utter darkness (in a cave for example) occurred, we would be blind thereafter. Thus there is a constant consciousness that accounts for both and is not dependent upon the sustainability of either one.