08-11-2010, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:Zen
practice is a pursuit where the goal is to experience the Buddha nature – A
major point is to enter a state of no internal dialogue and no-dual
awareness. That means that there is no longer a self and a world –
but that All is one. To keep that going every moment after Enlightenment is the further training. Mornings Son
"but that All is one." Mornings Son would you please tell us what you understand this statement to mean? This idea of ONENESS is very popular. In what way does no-self and no world contribute to the idea of oneness? How is the idea of no-world arrived at? If there is no-self and no world what is there to be one and how is that arrived at? These are distinct questions.
I point this out because the oneness that Buddhism speaks of is very important. However in the west we tend to think of this as a union between self and this mysterious world..."I am one with everything" and "everything (ALL) is one". But what exactly does that mean, especially when mentioned in the same breath as no-self and no world?
It is common in Zen that after periods of zazen the student talks with the teacher/master, the one supposedly who has achieved what the student is in training for. Students are usually put on the spot by the teacher and asked questions like, "What is going on in your practice, your zazen?" This is not done to embarrass the student or to dominate the student, these questions are asked so as to gauge the students progress! Based on the students response the teacher spontaneously knows how to respond with skillful means. Usually there are very long periods of clearing away erroneous ideas concerning one's nature before a direct introduction can take place. Also the teacher wants to make sure the student is not just "zoning out" in attempts to stop thought.
In what way does no-self and no world contribute to the idea of oneness? How is the idea of no-world arrived at?
These words are merrily pointing to the Moon, not the Truth
no-self and no-world is Emptiness experienced as Now and Here.
There is many path to arrive at no-world experience. In Zen Zazen is the method.
emptiness is form, form is emptiness
***
Edit:
Zen is about experiencing Truth beyonds words and concepts. This makes is difficult to talk about as concepts and ideas easy leads into fixations of the Mind, when what is needed is the Mind to be free of all fixations.
Lex it is a paradox to be experienced - Oneness, no-self and no-world, its not something to understand.
practice is a pursuit where the goal is to experience the Buddha nature – A
major point is to enter a state of no internal dialogue and no-dual
awareness. That means that there is no longer a self and a world –
but that All is one. To keep that going every moment after Enlightenment is the further training. Mornings Son
"but that All is one." Mornings Son would you please tell us what you understand this statement to mean? This idea of ONENESS is very popular. In what way does no-self and no world contribute to the idea of oneness? How is the idea of no-world arrived at? If there is no-self and no world what is there to be one and how is that arrived at? These are distinct questions.
I point this out because the oneness that Buddhism speaks of is very important. However in the west we tend to think of this as a union between self and this mysterious world..."I am one with everything" and "everything (ALL) is one". But what exactly does that mean, especially when mentioned in the same breath as no-self and no world?
It is common in Zen that after periods of zazen the student talks with the teacher/master, the one supposedly who has achieved what the student is in training for. Students are usually put on the spot by the teacher and asked questions like, "What is going on in your practice, your zazen?" This is not done to embarrass the student or to dominate the student, these questions are asked so as to gauge the students progress! Based on the students response the teacher spontaneously knows how to respond with skillful means. Usually there are very long periods of clearing away erroneous ideas concerning one's nature before a direct introduction can take place. Also the teacher wants to make sure the student is not just "zoning out" in attempts to stop thought.
In what way does no-self and no world contribute to the idea of oneness? How is the idea of no-world arrived at?
These words are merrily pointing to the Moon, not the Truth
no-self and no-world is Emptiness experienced as Now and Here.
There is many path to arrive at no-world experience. In Zen Zazen is the method.
emptiness is form, form is emptiness
***
Edit:
Zen is about experiencing Truth beyonds words and concepts. This makes is difficult to talk about as concepts and ideas easy leads into fixations of the Mind, when what is needed is the Mind to be free of all fixations.
Lex it is a paradox to be experienced - Oneness, no-self and no-world, its not something to understand.