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Is Don Juan Real or did Castaneda make him up?
#26
After some time of controlling yourself and acting consciously you'll start seeing how asleep you were and you'll see others... You'll be able to easily let's say manipulate them if you will. That is by assessing the situation and person along with what actions you can perform you can easily see what their reaction will be. You don't even have to know them but sure it's easier in the beginning when you do.

Oh, no... I'm not saying manipulating people is good. Not saying it's bad either though sometimes you can do good for others by doing so and at other times harm them. This is where a good ehhh "judgement" comes in play but I'd rather call it seeing as you actually know and don't concoct something about what's going on. I used to entertain ideas like that in my mind and want power with which I can "control my problems away". Haha, silly me.

In any case I'm getting better at whatever it is I do the more I do it (not talk about it).
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#27
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#28
The lazy way of non-judgment. Basically I was saying that once I found that I don't have to judge and how comfy that is... and what good effects that has... a lot less emotional drama and entanglements. It was freeing. So why get into that again if one can keep out of it? I guess I was hoping this was the best way of doing things. 
The metaphor I used was that judgment was a muscle and this muscle got a big workout during my life. I was figuring out that I don't have to use this muscle. In general, humans are lazy creatures. If one doesn't have to use the muscle and spend energy on doing it then they might be tempted not to. 
But I found out, sadly, that not judging it is not a solve all kinda method. At least not at my stage. And there were some negative effects that could have been avoided if I just kicked myself in the butt to judge a little during a time when I was all in the wooaa I don't have to judge stuff stage. I had to admit to myself I didn't want to judge because it was comfortable not to. I guess I was indulging in it.
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#29
Yeah, I've been in all sorts of extremes flinching from one to the other it can get hectic. I like the middle ground. I like balance and space to choose. There's a time for the wrong to be right and vice versa.

Not-doing saves energy for sure not so much though if what you're doing instead is more energy consuming. We're always doing something...

Avoiding drama and entanglements is easy enough as long as you're detached it wouldn't matter if you judge or not, all you need is space. One can even go to the extreme to be emotionally numb no matter the circumstances or people, however, that goes a little against what we're doing doesn't it...

About figuring out that it was a muscle that's cool and that's what I meant about doing it consciously instead of letting it do its own thing. As long as you're aware of what you're doing and are ready to accept responsibility for your actions you can weigh out the pros and cons in advance... So with awareness you've seen that both ways are options and both ways have their uses. That's what I meant. Even the deepest darkest part of you is you. And it can go even deeper...

In most cases the part of ourselves we tend to avoid, hide, and run from is the one we so badly need to embrace... One can't hide from oneself.

All this goes way beyond judgements. Any and every action you do with your mind and/or body is yet another "muscle".

Does breath happen to you or do you breathe? Now take this question and apply to all of your doings.

"This is a rock only because of your doing."...

Don't forget even though you may stop judging that doesn't mean some of your judgements haven't stuck around... (If that applies.) Explore active judgements how to set them and how to remove them and how to override undesired judgements from becoming active before they happen (cutting the "*** me" motion tic before it happens). It's fun, almost as much as I am. The mind becomes quicker, stronger, and more agile the more it's used. And it goes lazy and stuck in a routine if not exercised. "Then they called me stupid. Cry..."

I almost feel sorry for the people that curse the inner dialogue the way they do.
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#30
Jos3ph wrote:Recently I became aware of how I liked to try to take credit for insights that came to me. But really "I" didn't do it. It just happened or just came to me. The best "I" can do is be quiet and ready and expectant to receive what comes. This is something the judging mind can be terrified by! I think that relates to the waiting you spoke of.
yes Smile
Silvio recently mentioned the flyer. I did not look at the flyer all that much. Still, I feel that working on things the way one should slowly takes care of the flyer aspect. Here one could say that judging, the way it is practiced by muggles, is the domain of the flyer. I see it very visibly when a person makes a judgment, their body and well what to call it whole feeling around their persona shifts. These acts of judgments close doors, the way I was talking about making or not making judgment opens them. Of course the muggle way also sharpens and that can be good for cutting a path in front of the person. A sorcerer has sharpness in attention we don't need judgment to do it for us. 
Interesting is that I just now stopped writing because I am writing things I didn't expect (and that I haven't said or thought before) and I'm wondering if I'm making sense haha.

Jos3ph wrote:I want to change my explanation from yesterday.. I believe the shocked feeling was due to seeing something in your communication. I read it with complete concentration and I understood what you were conveying without you giving specific practical examples, which is definitely outside the norm for me and I also got a visual impression that I understood without words. Not that what I expressed earlier wasn't true, but this is much truer ;-)
Interesting, because I usually gives concrete examples but here I felt like I should not (that it is not needed, though it was strange to talk about something without saying what exactly - I'm all for practical examples in general hehe). But I felt it might actually help to do it that way, because you won't focus in the same way (instead of zooming in on the example youd have to see more of the periphery too, which shows more things). Thnx for the feedback Smile.
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#31
funnyguy wrote:Judgements by themselves can be a reaction is what I was saying above. They're just as any other reaction or action. I don't have to act to judge nor will reactions completely disappear if I stop judging. It is just an energetic movement. It's either consciously executed or not or yes, consciously or unconsciously not executed. Just like running or walking or sitting or lying.
Aah, OK. 
Yes, of course. Judgment as a reaction is the one I am trying to fill with awareness - because that is the one I see most often linked to self image. When one reacts without realizing, it's somewhat of an instinct for most people because there is not enough awareness in the whole process (like you say). And, yes, it is not a special thing that is only true for judgments.

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funnyguy wrote:Things are not very complicated at all, sorcery is not complicated at all, what makes it harder to grasp is that people try to intellectually understand it while it must be practiced.
I think/hope everyone will agree with this Smile

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funnyguy wrote:I did not stop reacting when I suspended judgements
Something about you saying this still does not make sense to me.  Because I think it has a direct link - one should notice a difference in how one reacts. I am thinking maybe it links to what you call reacting, like what you say about the lion... then it makes more sense.

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funnyguy wrote:For example I don't have to judge a lion coming towards me with the intent to kill as scary in order to immediately get on my toes. It will be an instinctive reaction on my part to do so. Reacting is not bad either, it can save your life as long as its properly setup.
Your example here makes sense Smile. Still, it is clear that you talk about basic survival instinct - hence I would say that it is not about acting-reacting on the layer that I am talking about, but a different one.
It is not like lying to your friend because you're protecting your self image. This kind of reaction, in the way how it works (not why), appears very similar to an instinct, but it is just something using a method that works (a method that is justifiably used for survival instinct). Something tapped into the way survival instinct works and is making use of it. It is not the same thing (one could claim protecting one's ego is also a survival instinct, but it is a different layer, and even saying this one has to admit that only certain big blows to the ego pose real danger. It would be like running away from a lion in a cage, or withdrawing one's hand from anything that is remotely warm). Telling the truth about something that might make us look bad in our opinion does not pose a real danger. If anything it might actually lead to us saving ourselves Big Grin. Being eaten by a lion does not Smile.
(Ofc I could think of an example where lying would save one's life for real... that is then on the same level as your lion example.)

The thing about acting vs reacting is that even people who are already on the path do a lot of reacting instead of acting - talking on the layer of attention/perception now. They just allow their attention to wander (not directed by them, not in control of it) and react to whatever comes up. It is something we all did or still do, and we got great results by doing this in many cases, but it seems that the next level is to wake up from this kind of dream and way of (not)using our own attention. 

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funnyguy wrote:True and yet the expression "Don't judge a book by its covers." is not out there for no reason.
Sure. This saying is basically telling us to become warriors haha. 

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funnyguy wrote:I prefer acting to indulging in explanations and thoughts. Intend to see what takes/where you spend most of your energy and start cutting that off, intend to save energy. You'll see that useless things start falling out one by one. Be impeccable. Start by pretending you are if you don't know how to start.
When you start a sentence by "I prefer acting to indulging" then you don't even have to say what the indulging is in, it is clear that anything that one indulges in is the worse option and acting will win Big Grin. But, moving away from indulging in it, it is clear to me that there is a time for acting and a time for reflection. For example, it is a clear fact for me that writing about things is very valuable. It does something to the experience. It is also an action and it brings other parts of your awareness into the mix.You might find out  things that will save you time. It is like layering your experience, you add another layer of awareness to something. Writing most of all, but also talking, could be that you're just writing a private diary or you might be working on things together with others using language... these things are also under 'acting' (of course if you don't have an experience that you could work with in this way then you have nothing to write about, so yes, the actual experience usually comes first then come the processing of it through language and with the other type of our awareness). 
Indeed, if one indulges in explanations then the path should take him or her somewhere to stop doing that. But it does not in any way negate the fact that working with our experiences (which came out of our acting or reacting) in language can also be ' acting'. And one might find that one's language need to change quite a bit... and by changing the language one changes reality... sorcery at its purest Smile. Trying to express something leads to magic.
Did you ever try writing a story or a poem about your experience?  

But indeed we are different types of beings. For some reason my mind jumped to the different types of men and thought the man behind the scenes, the man of action, courier and the scholar probably use language in different ways and probably have a different drive to explain/talk with others. But you might know more about this - since you are probably one of them Big Grin.
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#32
funnyguy wrote:Not-doing saves energy for sure not so much though if what you're doing instead is more energy consuming. We're always doing something...
yes, and I was wondering whether a person who didn't judge as default (which is ofc hard to find in our society) would find that judging gave them energy - since for them it would be a not-doing (of not judging hehe). It is hard to imagine to be honest, but it should work that way... given how not-doings are supposed to work.

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funnyguy wrote:Avoiding drama and entanglements is easy enough as long as you're detached it wouldn't matter if you judge or not, all you need is space.
Of course this statement is true Smile. The problem or magic lol is that getting somewhere is an individual path but also that there are different facets and angles to things. So say I can avoid drama and entanglements to quite a big extent (thanks to an aversion to drama I've had since forever), but sometimes I decide to go into something that I know might have drama and entanglements (sometimes I'm pretty much sure of that and still decide to go into a situation that has that potential). I also know that it is hard for me to detach once I'm in the deep water lol... so I know this going into the situation that I might come to a point when I wont be able to detach easily - meaning it will take a certain time and a certain toll. The 3rd thing is that I found that detaching is not a good thing sometimes. That it makes me not act from the best layer (that I don't see all that I should). Even if I might want to avoid it, sometimes I have to immerse myself more to find the best solution to a situation. Only after can I detach (and there again I'm not as fast as I'd like). The not-judging gives me another tool in my arsenal how to help myself. I can still have empathy to a degree when in non-judgment more for example, whereas with detaching I found often that I lack empathy. But the more aware I am of this the better I am getting at combining stuff.

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funnyguy wroteBig Grinon't forget even though you may stop judging that doesn't mean some of your judgements haven't stuck around...
lol yes. While I was practicing non-judgement on something I noticed that I judged some people (which was not the thing I was focusing on) because they didn't get it and were not able to shift like me (and were in a lot of emotional upheaval while I was not). The way this manifested was that I did not have empathy with those people (I was too detached - so, yea, sometimes detachment stinks) Just because we don't judge one thing where we direct our attention doesn't mean we don't have a gazillion other judgments going on at the same time). Otherwise we'd stop the world Smile. (the landmark situation I talked about some posts before led to me stopping the world - at least partially).
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#33
funnyguy:

"Don't forget even though you may stop judging that doesn't mean some of your judgements haven't stuck around..."

That came up for me this weekend! I'm struggling to find the words to express... I can start by saying that I am seeing how intricately linked judgement and self-image are. No. Self-image requires judgment. Ok. I think there's only one way...

I became aware of how the majority of my time is spent thinking about what other people are doing wrong. I honestly never called doing that "judging." I believed that I was simply viewing reality.

But what I'm really trying to say is that when I was in that, I WAS THE JUDGING. There was no separation. It wasn't me doing the judging, it was all one complete identity. ....and then I became aware. "Oh, I'm doing that!" It was me doing that instead of being that.

watergaze:

"..layers.."

Lol
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#34
That's amazing Jos3ph! I'm getting happy that you're having such great experiences and insights. Keep it coming Smile.
Jos3ph wrote: I can start by saying that I am seeing how intricately linked judgement and self-image are. No. Self-image requires judgment. Ok. I think there's only one way... 

I became aware of how the majority of my time is spent thinking about what other people are doing wrong. I honestly never called doing that "judging." I believed that I was simply viewing reality. 

But what I'm really trying to say is that when I was in that, I WAS THE JUDGING.
It is basically impossible to get people to see this just by telling them that their 'viewing of reality' (when they talk about how person XYZ is - and usually it is something considered negative by the speaker - for example based on the way the person dresses) is a judgment. 
(Ofc sometimes we practice seeing but that is a different matter altogether and I have noticed also that many who stop by the www just use that word for veiled judgments. Just cause we see something doesn't mean it's free of judgment. So, ideally, one works on the judgment layer (for sure if it's the unaware kind, but also if the person cannot suspend judgment even if they are aware of it) before they start mixing it with seeing cause the two are a terrible mix imo. 


P.S. I talked to funnyguy in private so I guess he won't be responding to my posts here. We figured out some vocabulary stuff and other things. It was a fun talk Smile. Maybe he'll pitch in anyway... we'll see Smile.
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#35
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