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"In the case of every other vagina in the world... even my presumption was a form of tiny tiny non consensual judgement"
Where does the "presumption" occur....how does it manifest? It seems like its a process of mental projection, which unfortunately has massive social impetus....a very strong current which seems difficult to withdraw from.
To me, it seems, innocence and interfacing the unknown, at any given point in time, in the conscious suspension of this process of presumption. And, once finally stumbled upon, the discipline of sustaining this state of "innocence".
Unbending intent.
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glance left wrote:
"I
Where does the "presumption" occur....how does it manifest? It seems like its a process of mental projection, which unfortunately has massive social impetus....a very strong current which seems difficult to withdraw from.
Unbending intent.
It is of course mental projection.
The known is the portion of awareness that lives within the boundaries of mental projection.
This earlier talk of celibate generally and not celibate generally...
There is no mental projection in being celibate generally, buckets of it in looking to make choices from amongst the general.
The known or mental projection must be dismantled, attempting to peer through the gaps in your known mental projection is not a safe practice.
Recapitulate and as a result the known will have no foundation to support the architecture of your mind and escape routes from its structure.
By the second vagina I discovered a whole world of difference both marginal and nagual.
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"The known or mental projection must be dismantled, attempting to peer through the gaps in your known mental projection is not a safe practice."
What do you mean by peering through the gaps of known mental projection? And why is that not a safe practice?
Recapitulation, as I've experienced it, opens up gaps within the known by progressively retracting the impetus to mentally project tethered by emotional investment associated with historical moments within which the unknown became known through direct experience...like having sex for the first time. Some simply cannot interrupt the compulsion to mentally project once its gathered momentum....and recapitulation helps progressively withdraw the emotional impetus behind that compulsion so that at least the possibility of experiencing the gap becomes available....the centimeter of chance.
The gap...or inner silence....opens up the possibility of experiencing, again, the unknown...just like when we were children. I guess that can be dangerous but, seemingly to me, only by virtue of the fact of the possibility for the same process being initiated...that of the unknown becoming known and hardened around or clung to via compulsive mental projection. Thus, the second attention just becomes another trap within which one can be enmeshed. The solution, to me...whether or not someone has undergone recapitulation (I'm reminded of Zen monks who freely experience the unknown via sustaining the open space of that "gap". They don't recapitulate...they just compulsively practice inner silence) revolves around one's stance when the unknown comes into view through those gaps. Do I revert to indulgence.....clinging....seeking a sense of familiarity or clinging....or can I remain in contact with what provided the opportunity to experience the unknown....to navigate through the unknown without giving in to this compulsion.
I could be wrong about all this, but that's my take based on personal experience.
Just a quick addendum: My impression is that there are those who escape who never spend a single second in recapitulation. How is that possible? To me, the content of what needs to be recapitulated is always directly in front of us and is upheld by the mechanism which holds the known in place...mental projection, qualification, expectation, categorization. To escape means to progressively disrupt that mechanism in a sustained fashion until escape is at hand.
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rosygyro wrote:
When I was a twelve year old boy I didn’t know what it felt like to have my penis in a willingly receptive vagina.
Some years later I discovered the feeling and it became A KNOWN .
Included in that knowledge of one vagina was a minuscule amount of presumption as to what all vaginas feel like.
Well, the first thing I'm noticing here is that you've used more standard punctuation to make yourself more clear. Thank you for putting forth that effort. I do find you easier to understand now.
The second thing I've noticed is that your argument seems to be changing. While earlier you were saying as a universal statement that male genitalia is "the known" and female genitalia "the unknown", now you seem to have toned it down some. It appears that here you're trying to argue why male genitalia would be "the known" specifically for men, and female genitalia "the unknown" specifically for men. That's an easier argument to make, but I wonder if your honest enough with yourself to acknowledge that you're only finding support for a toned down version of your original argument, rather than pretending defending calling male genitalia the known and female the unknown for men is the same thing as defending calling male genetilia the known and female genitalia the unknown universally.
Of course using the same reasoning presented in your new argument here we would have to say that for women the male genitalia would be the unknown, and the female genitalia would be the known.
But if we're to be precise about what you really learned after you entered that one vagina, (and why shouldn't we?), then we have to say that the knowledge you refer to above was only of what your particular penis felt like in that particular vagina at that particular time. As you've pointed out, you don't know for certain what all vaginas feel like. And I'll add, you don't know what it feels like to have some other man's penis in a vagina. Not even in one yours has been in before. Furthermore we can add a time element to it. You don't know how your penis would feel in that first vagina it entered were you to enter it again tomorrow. And there's emotional elements and where your AP is located at the time to consider as well.
I believe this is something we can take to it's universal extreme and it still holds up. After tasting an apple, I only knew what that particular bite of apple tasted like to me at that particular time. After eating dozens of apples, I only knew what those particular apples tasted like at the times I ate them.
The KNOWN is debilitating because it is our own sobriety that gets in the way of innocence
I don't agree with your choice to label the known debilitating. The known has it's advantages and disadvantages. I'd think one could be wise and use it accordingly.
or seeing the nascent part of life evolving
In the case of every other vagina in the world... even my presumption was a form of tiny tiny non consensual judgement.
Naturally you hold women to the same standard about their non-consensual judgments whenever they speculate about a man's penis, right?
Perhaps one day all women and men who've ever fantasized will apologize to each other. Or perhaps we'll all be in jail for "thought rape" or something like that. For now I'm not too worried about the moral implications of any of it though. Why wouldn't a woman want me to think about how wonderful her vagina might feel? In gazing, everything I see has consciousness and wants my attention. It can't be all that bad.
What you write isn’t honest enough.
Turn that statement around on yourself. The only thing I was slightly dishonest in here about was not knowing if you were trying to play word soup, (I didn't really think you were although it looked a bit like it). You on the other hand are trying to subtly change positions as if defending the smaller claim defends the larger claim, using ambiguity to obstruct analysis, and falsely accused me of having attacked your sexual prowess. It is your obstructions of honesty that make up the battleground here.
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I think that on the Otz chiim the entire relationship I study is where the path from Netzach impacts Malkuth. I see Yesod as environmentally effected or subject.
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rosygyro wrote:
I think that on the Otz chiim the entire relationship I study is where the path from Netzach impacts Malkuth. I see Yesod as environmentally effected or subject.
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Its very important that when the total hbitual assemblage point shifts that those with knowledge of recapitulation can recapitulate down its new vein.
a shift in total assemblage point will change the easterly force of potential so much that those with recapitulative energy will be better able to ground.
of course this involves being able to intend and visualise your totality in a new paradigm.
not talking about selling cds or books, chatshows or riches.
when the shift happens we will ALL be in the same state of tonal position but the general and collective outlook from the event will have changed.
i am number EZ364 catergory . Beeeep/
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then again - maybe thats just me.
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Thanks for the clarification 
Experimenting with the recap again (remember the distinct energy of the recapitulation "charge"....hard to argue with its benefit, really).
The formal retrograde list was done. Now, perhaps, to review the day with the sweeping recapitulation breath, looking for catches...emotional spikes. Focus on those moments with the breath and then intend to look back, again, at those historical points where the catch was initiated and deepening the recap there.
I'm open to other approaches, but this is what came in upon revisiting.
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Wow, that sure did open up a can of worms. So be it. I trust all that sticky squirming around will result in them unraveling themselves to be singled out along he edges to be dealt with individualy.
One thing I know. The compulsion to bring the derangement of pessimism in to the process is a grave mistake. Light, detached, optimism is the better tone to open a path for consistent progression. Just a personal note.
With respect to sexual celibacy.....personal forbearance. I'm no rapist (I guess I could easily have been, if I were born with more energy and under different, more hostile circumstances). But there has been plenty of pushing, pressuring beyond the integrity of whatever that boundary is. Lots of fantasizing that didn't take the other into consideration. That's beyond consent in a way, I believe. And lots of weak, low energy groping and subtle coercing that also didn't take another into consideration. All up for review.
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"Sorcerically also we need to connect with the other part of us. Men with their female part and women with their male part. We need to balance. In that sense, a guy strengthening his femininity is something very unsurprising. The fact that society might
"
...
"And that is the thing. In order to go beyond the societal constructs, one needs to venture into the so-called realm of the other. And this is why it becomes attractive and desirable, one might see
"
I don't think anyone is anti-balance. No one would criticize a man "strengthening his female side", assuming "man" and "female" mean something. But it seems to me that what's at stake here is whether it's not the more usual condition these days for a man to be *in the closet* about being a man, and obliged to *actually* act like a female in his outer life to be more presentable to society -- the idea that being male, PER SE, is something to be ashamed of and feminine gentleness (your own words) should be the dominant mode in every aspect of society and our lives.
You can explain pretty much every relationship like "male/female" as "1 + -1 = 0", and that's great, but it doesn't tell us anything. Why should a female be gentle? Is there a medical reason? I'm not sure anyone knows?
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"consider a sorcerer who doesnt like the vibe in a room he is in
he could choose to manipulate his assembage point through will to any position he desires
wheras to shift his assemblage point would be immpossible
if it contained elements of social conditioning or personal history he needed to resolve.
"
I'm considering it. I think under these conditions it would be impossible to shift away without IMPOSING YOUR WILL on the other people in the room. Simpler just to run away and change the subject, right?
"these wild stabs in the dark at my sexual adequacy are unecissary and also un.warrented
as i have not tried at all to identify your own petty shortcomings
what do you think this is? who are these give a **** audience who care about your attitude and applaud
"
I mean... I'm getting a little bored with this now, so I'm just going to push it straight down into the mud and see what happens:
I'm new here, so forgive me for not knowing, but who voted you King Guru, why are you the expert at everything, what are your actual qualifications, and why do you think anyone wants to see your art? Why would the women on the street you run away from want to sleep with you at all? Why run away? You've got nothing to worry about.
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Le_Regard wrote:
"consider a sorcerer who doesnt like the vibe in a room he is in
he could choose to manipulate his assembage point through will to any position he desires
wheras to shift his assemblage point would be immpossible
if it contained elements of social conditioning or personal history he needed to resolve.
"
I'm considering it. I think under these conditions it would be impossible to shift away without IMPOSING YOUR WILL on the other people in the room. Simpler just to run away and change the subject, right?
I take that back... it isn't impossible. You could also be unconscious, or just not really paying attention. Tranced out, relative to everyone else... but I don't think it would do much about the vibe in the room.
I think it's very possible to clear out most or even all of our own energies -- for maybe a microsecond -- before we suddenly realize that other people have energies too and the details of our own minds just aren't that important.
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Le_Regard wrote:
I mean... I'm getting a little bored with this now, so I'm just going to push it straight down into the mud and see what happens:
I'm new here, so forgive me for not knowing, but who voted you King Guru, why are you the expert at everything, what are your actual qualifications, and why do you think anyone wants to see your art? Why would the women on the street you run away from want to sleep with you at all? Why run away? You've got nothing to worry about.
20 years ago now since i started studying tensegrity.
19 years since i dropped a pin in the sorcerers world
to track it over time.
I dont just break up crusted energy..
i drag spirals out of the dust it makes.
i do this every day in a heart beat,
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rosygyro wrote:Le_Regard wrote:
I mean... I'm getting a little bored with this now, so I'm just going to push it straight down into the mud and see what happens:
I'm new here, so forgive me for not knowing, but who voted you King Guru, why are you the expert at everything, what are your actual qualifications, and why do you think anyone wants to see your art? Why would the women on the street you run away from want to sleep with you at all? Why run away? You've got nothing to worry about.
20 years ago now since i started studying tensegrity.
19 years since i dropped a pin in the sorcerers world
to track it over time.17.jpg
I dont just break up crusted energy..
i drag spirals out of the dust it makes.
i do this every day in a heart beat,I just woke up. A few seconds later I checked my phone for messages.
I wasn't exactly dreaming, but I wasn't quite awake either, when I noticed this.
I was writing poetry in my head about how every universe necessarily has a stripper pole at the center.
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I'm actually kind of obsessed right now with the idea of sex worker as spiritual path. Right now I'm just contemplating stripper poles but... I don't know, maybe the universe will notice my good intentions and supply me with the capital I need for more advanced research.
I'm particularly obsessed with it because I really do have to STUDY IT. It's not like other things where if I want to know I just GO DO IT. I am tragically excluded, except maybe under very special experimental conditions, from all the hot girl specific magic.
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I found these on the sidewalk this afternoon, like some little kid had dropped them on the way to school
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The bouncing ball of the alchoholics anonymous groups.
How you can get so low that the only way left is up' and so you bounce.
Was a tragic image to put into the collective mind
to make the bounce a position of total melancholy.
Thats why I advocate the spazmo contest
i think the closer you get to spazmo (the spazmo core)
the better your chances at bouncing into sobriety/
thats where the world of the beast alignment comes in.
From spazmolation
recapitulation there are two natural life paths
the potential core is a dropped walking stick
the past a spinning ball.
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speaking of cores.. i once set up my punchbag as a zen device
and saw it as a red thread from ceiling to floor
and no matter how hard i hit it, i always left the red thread undisturbed.
then oneday somebody stole it.
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In Aristotle there's a prime mover, called "the unmoved mover". It's pretty much at the core of reality. It moves everything, it is the first cause of everything, but is itself unmoved. If you could recapitulate ALL THE WAY back to the first cause of everything, it would probably be this.
How does it move all things without moving? It attracts them. All beings have an innate desire to become like it, so it steers all beings towards itself.
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Le_Regard wrote:
In Aristotle there's a prime mover, called "the unmoved mover". It's pretty much at the core of reality. It moves everything, it is the first cause of everything, but is itself unmoved. If you could recapitulate ALL THE WAY back to the first cause of everything, it would probably be this.
How does it move all things without moving? It attracts them. All beings have an innate desire to become like it, so it steers all beings towards itself.
i would aknowledge the rock that i had tripped over as being in the past
but would not try to recapitulate back to it as if it were my origin.
in all seriousness though if origin were so important then archeology would
be the lord of all future creation.
potential energy and the genus ghost'
two very different things.
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