Place of no pity.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Lunoor wrote:Good point wei, I like the clarity you bring to it here.


Glad you liked. Its truly experience talking because I actually tried to reach the place of no pity in my teens and 20s in the very manner I now say is not correct. I tried not to love my family or friends because I thought such feelings were attachments (burdens) for the warrior. I basically descended into hell! I'm sure some may say I just didn't do it right, I say I did as suggested, be ruthless, and it was not worth it. One thing I learned was while I was busy being ruthless, those people who I was trying to not care about where caring for me and I was just ignoring it as if they were not. The idea we can separate ourselves from others is just an idea but try putting it into action and it just doesn't work nor produce the effect of freedom as perceived.

[another spirit]

it's mostly about doing it with yourself - stalking pertains to the world. and the inner world must be cleared if you want to be freer. as for others, if that's what you want, then it shouldn't be a problem with them as long as you're sweet as well. the two are not unrelated. they both are heart.

[Wei Shan Yang]

This would mean calculating your moves which is a doing...be rutherless, be sweet. A point of intellectualization before taking action rather then just acting from pure feeling which would arise from nothing rather than predetermined rules (repetitive internal dialog). I think Carlos got carried away sometimes in describing things and he later tried to explain to his followers its not as literal as taken.

[Gonzo]

Wei Shan Yang wrote:Gonzo, the Joker, yikes! That character represented one who was totally imbalanced and had self-serving dreams of grandeur. I would say he pitied himself, felt the world was against him which made him enjoy seeing others suffer. Their suffering was his reward for his inner pain and resentment towards them (feeling unloved), which he hid behind his smile.
Imo, that's engaging in amateur psychoanalysis. I have no interest in The Joker's genesis. I DO have interest in his motivations and his utter freedom to live without rules, something the Blue Duck character shared. And I still maintain both present the essence of the place of no pity. For what it's worth, my teacher was of the opinion that being without empathy defined true evil.
No one seems to have considered what don Juan's motives were in forcing CC into that state. I don't recall that don Juan made any moral judgments about it, rather he wanted CC to taste it, to know what it was by experiencing it, not as a state to achieve, but one to understand.



Here's an interesting analysis of The Joker character. (http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Joker-as-a- ... -Character)

I thought the following was particularly relevant:
The Joker’s alluded worldview is that good behavior and civilization are the joke, and that just below the surface everyone is as brutal and vicious as himself.

[Wei Shan Yang]

I don't believe there is such a thing as true evil, for always in any being there will be a glimmer of love for something...others, self, even the love for oblivion to escape suffering (love of self relief).



"The Joker’s alluded worldview is that good behavior and civilization are the joke, and that just below the surface everyone is as brutal and vicious as himself."



I think he's just, in a twisted way, seeking what Buddhism calls Sameness. He feels others judge him and so it brings him relief to expose them as being the same as him, which in his view removes their ability to judge him as different. Its like he's saying "you all think you are so much better then me, but I know different." His pleasure would come from seeing the acknowledgment on their faces that in fact they are no better than him. He just did not understand from the get-go that he was never any worse.



"No one seems to have considered what don Juan's motives were in forcing CC into that state."



I considered this quite a while ago. Carlos was very dependent of JM at that time. He looked up to him as a leader, a man without flaw and whose power was impenetrable. When DJ transformed into a frail old man, it shook Carlos out of the leader-follower mode, and made Carlos consider his own frailty as a response....in other words, if the invincible JM could falter, then all of humanity was doomed. So Carlos had to face that sense of despondency and doom that he had been avoiding and instead was using JM as a crutch as a "super nagual" that could be emulated which gave him hope, and humanity in general hope. But such hope was complacent and DJ wanted Carlos to experience for himself getting beyond this doom that approaches when facing mortality, death, which Carlos was not doing at the time and was instead buffering himself via his teacher. So knowing that when faced with utter collapse, something else kicks in (survival mechanism) provided Carlos with his first taste (perhaps) of independence from his teacher.

[another spirit]

i have no arguments - to be calculating is only a matter of feeling as well, most of the concepts i feel you are using to be concrete terms and that is the objection i'm raising. if we are trying to live in the abstract then there really is no disharmony except pretending that anything is in disharmony. that makes sense. ruthlessness = transforming the concrete into the abstract, the nagual way. blah blah blah lol a child's voice reminds. yeah truthfully there is a lot of chatter over the importance of the nagual, when in fact, it's all pretty much the same, and i consider all of us seers with our foibles

[Wei Shan Yang]

Yeah, I agree with you AS. I'm not concrete in terms of how I apply, but perhaps my posts can sound that way, as I try to bring aspects to light that are relevant to me at the moment. If you follow me (in the forum) not follow as in the leader lol, but just notice my future/past posts, I'm not beating the same drum over and over (I'd hope). For me each day is new and I address it that way, because I think its all folly but still we have to enjoy being here, make it matter, blah blah blah, yada yada yada...is the gefilte fish ready?



Oh, and good point in the last sentence. Too much chatter, not enough looking in one's own backyard.

[another spirit]

yea i hear ya. cept i dont feel that i have to enjoy, just happen to do so. and uh - this is a good place to see where you stand publicly - since that ol backyard is part of a vast system of control

[Wei Shan Yang]

Backyards are where the forgotten treasures are buried. The riches of the world pale in comparison to what we can unearth in our own backyards.

[Mornings Son]

Place of no pity

In the point of view of steering free of personal drama, then having no pity for oneself is very useful

[Guest]

Thanks for that MS. Personal drama...it can feel like a cage, when you are outside of it, it is so insignificant because you are so insignificant. But in what way? Needs, concerns you thought mattered, they feel unreal and silly.



And yet you are significant, because you have awareness and use intent...its just the significance has shifted in meaning from personal to impersonal. You are still you,...but barely.



Ok, so reaching the place of no pity...its not difficult to do, but holding that position is more important then reaching it, because the lure of returning to the cage is strong at first. Habits die hard. Intent struggles to get that personal satisfaction, Nagual intent wants freedom from all that. That is why I seek the Nagual. It's like the open door from the bird cage.

[BarefootInTheSand]

It appears insignificant and silly because it is. Life is...and then there is all the meaning that one applies to life, overlaying life with invented meanings. Inside the meaning it seems so real, the emotions generated seem so valid...but step outside the meaning and you get how dumb it all is.



You are not significant or insignificant because significant is just a word that we made up. We also made up the meaning we give the word. But in life it has no meaning. When you remove all of the story you will see that all you are left with is life. During NDEs people report feeling at peace...this is imho because they are outside the circle of all the **** they made up. During NDEs people are not evaluating whether they are significant or not. They also are not having a whole lot of emotions. Things just are. Life without story. If you watch a few of the I Survived Beyond & Back shows you will notice that many report not wanting to come back into their bodies where all the drama is.



That is the place of no pity. How can you pity someone when you know that they are awareness and not this life? How can you pity someone when you know the freedom that comes at death?



I don't believe that you have to work at not pitying yourself or others...I think it is a natural outcome of reaching that kind of expanse.

[Guest]

I agree we assign meanings, so that tells me that in our ability to choose meaning lies power for those who are seekers. Joy is one such power. Even if its folly, its a fun one.



Ah peace train, cat Stevens is on radio right now...I'm enjoying the futile experience

[Guest]

Ravenmoon wrote:I agree we assign meanings, so that tells me that in our ability to choose meaning lies power for those who are seekers.
Can you please explain how power lies in our ability to chose meaning?   I'm not quite understanding you.

[Guest]

We can align with others who have assigned the same meaning. This is how the lineages have evolved. Through intent. It's also how civilizations have done. So like barefoot said, the meaning is created.



I was at a powerspot a few weeks ago. It was on the side of highway between Santa Fe and Albuquerque the back way so not a major highway. I stopped to take some pictures, I wanted to go in to the rock formations. A barbedwire fence was there plus a property in distance. Also cars driving on highway made me aware I was being watched, I wanted to stay longer but didn't being that I was alone. I looked into the area for about a minute, it was powerful and it showed me things about awareness. It showed me that this waking is as pliable as dreaming worlds are, that many humans think this world is fixed, but in fact they are intending it constantly and thus shaping it constantly.

There was a street perpendicular to the rock powerspot. It was called Whispering Spirits Rd.

[Guest]

To add...the lineage of Don Juan and Carlos made the task of seeing energy directly. They are by far not the only ones to do this, but luckily Carlos wrote about it in his books to bring attention to the fact of energetic facts. So, to choose to find meaning in the belief that energy can been seen directly is the first step for many to actually do this very thing and be aware of what they have done. Then it becomes more then a belief, it becomes a skill..which some are naturally born with anyway, whereas others need to develop it.

[BarefootInTheSand]

Ravenmoon wrote:I agree we assign meanings, so that tells me that in our ability to choose meaning lies power for those who are seekers.
^ Like
One can choose meaning.  One can also choose no meaning.  I agree that there is power in being able to disconnect ones self from the meanings that have been given certain things.  
For many people homosexuality means something negative.  I can choose that meaning too...and I can make the fight for gay rights mean something too.  I can also step outside of that and see that it really doesn't mean anything at all.  When we remove the story I am just me.  Some are uncomfortable with that...others aren't.  The rest is story.

[quantumshaman]

Ravenmoon wrote:
We can align with others who have assigned the same meaning. This is how the lineages have evolved.
   Aligning with others who have assigned the same meaning is the creation of another consensus reality.  In the end, at the eagle's beak, it is a journey of one - and there will be no safety in numbers. 
Finally *seeing* that there is no "meaning" is the first major step toward freedom.  Prior to that, seeking meaning is primarily seeking agreement - a slippery, dangerous slope.
To *see* is to Know.  But it still means No-thing.

[Guest]

Like these last two posts here.



Seeing/knowing things for oneself, direct experience, is a must if one is to be free.

[quantumshaman]

Ravenmoon wrote:
Like these last two posts here.
Seeing/knowing things for oneself, direct experience, is a must if one is to be free.
As one advances as a warrior, one resists assigning meaning at all - because it becomes clearer over time that it's the conclusions we draw that are often in error, while the experience itself remains just "what it is", whether it can be explained or understood or not.  For example, I'm always amused by websites offering to sell certain crystals with this or that "special properties."  Quartz for clarity!  Amethyst for healing!  Aventurine for fertility! 
They're just rocks.  An amethyst is just as likely to make you fertile and aventurine is just as likely to gift you with clarity... Not.  All of these "meanings" are just random assignations by humans, but the thing-itself is just the thing-itself.
With that said...  A warrior MIGHT decide to assign meaning to a stone as a tool of "fake it till you make it" (i.e., a power object), but ultimately a wo/man of Knowledge *sees* the underlying truth:  it's still just a rock.  The fact that it is a pretty rock or a different kind of rock doesn't alter the fact that it's still a rock.  And, of course... "pretty" and "different" are also just random assignations.
The only thing that makes gold so valuable is our belief.  The only thing that has kept the economy functioning for so long is our belief that there is gold behind all that paper.  As the mass beliefs start to disintegrate (i.e., as the conclusions we have drawn cease to have 'meaning'), the thing itself reverts to just what-it-is...
No-thing.
In the human world, it seems there is virtually no way to have a society that doesn't depend on conclusions and illusions, agreements and consensuses.  If our economy weren't based on gold and paper, it would be based on beans and sand, or turnips and feathers.  Point being:  it seems our survival as organic beings depends on certain assignations of "meaning", but at the same time our inorganic freedom depends on seeing beyond those things upon which our organic survival depends. 
It's no coincidence that this is somewhat of a flawless trap - a basic construct of the foreign installation.
I think there is deep inner meaning there.

[Guest]

Yes, I agree with you that its about getting beyond the so called laws of science and physics. Inorganic is intent-based, it does not need cause and effect of the physical.



A tv magician has some "trick", a true magician has skillfully reached the inorganic.

[BarefootInTheSand]

I am not sure that inorganic is intent based.



The new research being done with NDEs is talking about a distinct separation between brain and mind. Mind apparently "entangles" itself with the brain...similar to Castanedas notion of "fixation" in an "organic being". However, scientists are now suggesting that upon imminent death of the organic brain that the mind disentangles itself and lives beyond the body..."inorganically".



A study of NDEs illustrates what inorganic life is all about...or at least the rough beginnings of it. Ive not heard any mention of intent in NDEs...so I am not sure about your statement.

[quantumshaman]

BarefootInTheSand wrote:
A study of NDEs illustrates what inorganic life is all about...or at least the rough beginnings of it. Ive not heard any mention of intent in NDEs...so I am not sure about your statement.Do you happen to have a source or website where that research is discussed?  I'd be curious to read about it.

[Littlepaw]

I watched a program about this. Scientiests were explaining that the measurment of electrons firing in particular parts of the Brain seemed to suggest the possibility that rather than electons firing in a linea sequence they instead are connected by Quantum existence, just like in a Quantum particle slit experiment, a single particle when fired has a Quantum existance. When applied to the brain this suggests that the information that triggers the various parts of the brain not only is no longer bound by linea time but is also no longer bound by the physical brain either. The sciensce concludes/assumes that our life force at death, no longer bound by our physical form, merges and dissapates in to the general Quatnum reality. The problem with this theory is that the only measurnment being used is electrons in the brain! It makes little sense to assume that it is our physical existance that is the driving force for Quantum conciousness. If this were true how would our Quantum conciousness have the energy to contintue atall after death? Another interesting point which these bungling scientist fail to point out is the possibilitys inherant within Quantum conciousness during normal life. What is stopping me for example using any part of the general Quantum reality out there since by its very nature the Quantum reality is totaly interconnected? First of all I would have to navigate the general Quantum reality but the question begs with what? Yes dear scienstists there is electricity in my little brain but at a Quantum level I will not be shooting electricity from my eye balls. It is of course intent which will be used to navigate the Quantum reality, something which as yet science knows nothing about.

[BarefootInTheSand]

^ What LP said.



The reason for this study was to try to explain why people can record memory when the brain is dead (not active). I dont believe that they were trying to prove quantum consciousness, however, they were suggesting that the mind entangles itself quantumly with the brain and disentangles itself when the brain is not able to support life and can exist on its own without a body. This to me suggests CCs "fixation" in the "human form". It also suggests that breaking that fixation would imply moving out of the human form or having an OBE. If that is so then there are many tools with which could readily verify "nagual" status of anyone claiming such a title.



The show is Through The Wormhole with Morgan Freeman, Is Their Life After Death and can be viewed (until they take it down) on Youtube here:

Part 1 of 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vLsPFAYHf8

Part 2 of 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m86edsAjHRU

Part 3 of 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLeaTd7SBmc



You can also watch the series of I Survived Beyond & Back which recounts 3 NDEs per show (there are alot of shows) and if you can take the story out of your listening a set of common experiences become clear. Again, intent doesnt seem to have anything to do with anything other than CCs story line.



The part of us that survives imho is the nagual...the other part of us, the story creator, imho is the tonal. CCs training of the nagual when compared to peoples experiences reveals imho a difference between real and invented.