Dreaming and Gates

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Yes, DJ, DGenaro, Silveo Manuel were the naguals in that warrior party. Even though it is a controversial subject, I would advise its much easier for a warrior with two or three compartments rather than four as it leads to isolation, madness, unhappiness and various other mental problems, it wasn't until I discovered the teachings was I able comprehend myself. A warrior with two compartments can do everything a four compartments one can and more because they have much less resistance once they form a link to power especially women.

[Guest]

Wow, that explains a lot, thanks. So being a Nagual, especially a woman is just more work and responsibility to harness his/her energy and lead or just be positive example...I totally 'get that'. But, if you say a two compartment person does the same as a Nagual, why have naguals? Why all the trouble, blood sweat and tears? If its the same result...if the case, though doubt its not the same, but what's the difference exactly...besides insanity?

[watergaze]

I am so glad we are discussing this as I have had question marks on this word/topic for quite a while. I did not understand how you here use this word. It seems like everyone is a nagual here, which is frankly just not possible . I always took nagual to strictly mean the (three or) four compartment being. So when Ravenmoon said she hopes we are not doubter naguals I was not really sure what she meant, if this or what you said that everybody who has a double is a nagual.

So I guess it now comes to the question: Don't also the two compartment beings have a double?

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Most people are two compartments and create a dreaming double during their life. This double has its own assemblage point. SO yes it is a double. Reaching the third attention is combining two awareness's into one perception. A person can have three compartments with the third compartment being either tonal or nagual. People with two tonal compartments often have mental illness and other problems. You are born with what you are in this description. A four compartment person is born with a special link with power that requires no formation of a dreaming double nor forming a link to power because they are born with these states. A nagual in essentially a mutation of the human race that has existed for centuries and because of this formation is often immune to the demands of the death. A nagual being has history of surviving death and taking others with them in the escape. If a person has no awareness of being what they are which is most then they live their lives in ignorant bliss and die with everyone else. Nagual Beings because of this link are great entertainers and athletes, scientists and social leaders despite never knowing their link to the spirit. Many nagual beings also become evil men and women and prey on society with their unique talents for stalking and using bad intent. My previous post was to point out that being a warrior, sorcerer, and seer is not reliant on having four compartments.

[Guest]

Yeah, and so many ways to define the Nagual. When I wrote I hope there are no doubters, I meant along the lines of your last sentence, "being a warrior, sorcerer and seer"...to be that is the Nagual link, and all those who visit and participate at these forms have that link, otherwise they'd be home knitting or collecting stamps etc...in other words, not beings drawn to power. That was my meaning, and in it is the potential to do great things.



I am fascinated by what wolf writes as his description gets into the energetics of it...the compartments and such. It's interesting to know, but on the other hand, its like a gun guy I work with told me one day. He said "There are guys who are expert shooters, and there are gun experts." I asked what the difference was and he said, the expert shooters have real precision when using a gun, but ask them how the mechanics of the gun works, and some can't tell you much, or it be accurate, the gun expert is the one who can.



So knowing the theory, and doing sorcery are two different things. It's helpful for all people here at these forums to consider, believe in and hone their Nagual link I say, whether they are 4 compartment beings or 3 or 2, all have the Nagual link.



I agree with you also about naguals going into entertainment, politics, social leader etc. In Ra King Roll, I am amazed as some of the lyrics these song writers come up with....Like Paul Mccartney's song, Blackbird...it has the Nagual spirit of freedom and mystery about it...just one example. So its like Spirit will appoint, so to speak, some naguals to be leaders of society in general but they are not drawn to power like we are here.

[fabs]

Hello Ravenmoon. I am wondering where your dream thread is because I only found the one about your music links and comments which I do find interesting but is not the same as a dream account. Maybe it is because you write it in DD instead? Anyway, I was just thinking, If you want action rather than theory, you could write your dreams more actively as it helps building and consolidating the double. Also it would hep me connect closer to you energetically. Looking forward to more dreaming with you.
Also I was thinking: Even Castaneda had doubts about being a Nagual in the beginning. Even members of his original party did not believe in him either in the second ring of power....I think it is acceptable to have doubts at some point and it is better than being deluded, as long as this is not a permanent situation and not an escape from action and responsibilities. That being said, I have read and understood in what context you talked about doubters; my comments here are just things that came to my mind in relation to the topic.

[Guest]

Hi Fabs, yes you reminded me, because lately this past month I put most of my significant dreams in our dream together nights. I posted some in Bharani's, Jessica's, Wolf's and my Sandia one. I set the intent to dream on every members nights, but unfortunately, for whatever reason I didn't get a dream for every night. I had LOTS of family in town these past weeks so my tonal has been busy and started new job and all... lots of tonal activity. So anyway... I thought I was keeping my thread active but in fact my dreams were being dispersed in other threads, lol. And thats fine but yes, it did make my dream thread dormant. Next significant dream I have I will be sure and post in my thread. I went ahead and bumped it up so you and others can see it, it had went to page two. I would enjoy getting responses, because for a while I was posting my dreams but no one was responding



I look forward to dreaming with you too. Two things I can say that I connect to you. One is that I have had more flying dreams since you arrived, and flying seems to be one of the abilities I associate with you. My flying dreams did not involve any members here I know of, and were brief, but still wanted to mention it, one specifically did seem to have your presence, it was in England at a park, two young men and I was flying around the park, I recall the grass being very vivid green, and then I became lucid and aware I was flying, and my lucidity caused teh dream to turn all white, so I think it was not an actual place, but a dreamscape, and my lucidity dispersed it I think.



Also, you saw lots of horseshoe symbols one day and I had a horseshoe omen around or on same day as you also. It connected to the word Leader that I heard on sandia mountain and also Wolf dreamed with you and me on sandia mountain on my dream night...so some connects Look forward to more.



And yes, I did post some dreams each with tenant, teo and wolf (each separate dreams) in DD forum that pertained to there. But I have and will be posting my dreams in both forums and seek to dream with everyone in this forum. If I post it in DD it means its DD related and vice verse, if I dream with RF members or dreams in general I will post here.

[Guest]

Ok, I just had to share this all with you as it made me laugh...it related to what I said in post 29 here:



a gun guy I work with told me one day. He said "There are guys who are expert shooters, and there are gun experts." I asked what the difference was and he said, the expert shooters have real precision when using a gun, but ask them how the mechanics of the gun works, and some can't tell you much, or it be accurate, the gun expert is the one who can.



Ok, so that was what I said before. Well, today a coworker came to tell me something, only because we happened to be passing each other in the hallway at same time so this is what she told me...that a guy came in to get a nameplate...because that is one of the services we offer...engraving nameplates(to pin on uniforms)...usually for police or law enforcement. Well, the coworker asked if the name plate was for a "gun expert"...because we make those apparently, and right away my ears perked up of course because I have just discussed this term here. Well, the guy told the co worker..he was not just a gun expert, he was a gun MASTER, lol. I had to laugh at the way my coworker exaggerated the word master and her eyes got very wide as she said it (she was being facetious but it was cute)...plus its funny how these gun guys can get so into this stuff, so he was saying he was a master. I thought it was cute. So I guess we made him a nameplate to read "gun master" ...which I interpret it as "taking it a notch higher", or raising the bar. He reached some level and apparently they have tiered levels much like in karate with green, blue, brown and black belts. They have gun shoots (at targets) to keep their skilled honed, in the event they have to use their weapons in real scenarios...crime fighting or terrorism type events.

[fabs]

Great you have put your dreams all together in a thread, thanks for the effort....and, no pressure, write whenever something comes up.



I also have in common with you the ability to connect to people's day when I dream, and the other way round. Sometimes I dream of someone I have not seen in a long time, let them know and they tell me they actually had just talked about me or thought of me. I guess this is interesting from the gates perspective. I guess now we can slowly get back to this topic.

[Guest]

Cool Fabs (about your dreaming/tonal). Yes, I would like to get back to topic...where do you want to start? How about...what (and this question I ask everyone) do you feel was your most significant gate experience? A dream where you felt you truly were not in Kanasas anymore? (Wizard of Oz)



For me I cannot narrow it down to one now that I think about it. But there are some dreams I recall that are just so very special in how I feel in them and how I feel when I awake...the power of the dream lingers. I know I went to a place, a powerful place, that exists (not a created dreamscape) and I awake rippling with energy from the dream. The content of the dream does not matter so much...I may have flew in the dream (in fact most dreams like that did involve flying) and the landscape was always vivid in some way. But its not ever what I see in such dreams that matter, or what events take place, but rather simply the energy of the place.



So when we talk about crossing gates, are we not also talking about energy increases, and in some cases decreases? And by this we can tell it was a gate of some sort? What does everyone think?

[fabs]

I just add these for reference, but personally I really like Lone Wolf's take on the gates of dreaming ( gates = shifts between types of dreams, places etc...). In any case, one view does not go against the other.


Castaneda 's Gates of Dreaming (by Wikipedia, not sure these are exactly as in the books)



1st Gate of Dreaming (stabilization of the dreaming body): Arrived at when one perceives one's hands in a dream. Solved when one is able to shift the focus from the hands to another dream object and return it to the hands, all repeated a few times. Crossed when one is able to induce a state of darkness and a feeling of increased weight while falling asleep. Location in the body – in the area at the base of the V formed by pulling the big and second toes of one foot to the sides.

2nd Gate of Dreaming (utilizing the dreaming body): Arrived at when one's dream objects start changing into something else. Solved when one is able to isolate a Scout and follow it to the realm of Inorganic Beings. Crossed when one is able to fall asleep without losing consciousness. It is also referred to the activity of dreaming together with other practitioners. Location in the body – in the inside area of the calf.

3rd Gate of Dreaming (traveling): Arrived at when one dreams of looking at oneself. Solved when the dreaming and physical bodies become one. Crossed when one is able to control the Dreaming Emissary. Location in the body – at the lowest part of the spinal column.

4th Gate of Dreaming (seeing): Arrived at when one is able to perceive the energetic essence of every dream item. Solved when one falls asleep in a dream, in the same position in which one has gone to sleep. Crossed when one wakes up in this reality, located not only in the physical but in the energy body.



I was always surprised that Castaneda describes four gates to be crossed in a sequence but in my experience, I seemed to have have performed tasks (drills) from further gates before properly having crossed previous gates. For Instance, I saw energy in dreams very soon after the first gate (1st gate is more or less Lucidity). Also the 'travelling' of the energy body, and from dream to dream or just being energy, doing the 'twins position 'before crossing the second gate.

It is possible that IBs have kept me unaware that I was with them the whole time, therefore already at the second gate..not sure.

[Guest]

Yes, I think its good reference material to consider (what CC wrote) and then to also consider our own direct experiences, because I agree that there will be variations. It sort of like this...we both go to San Francisco, we both see the golden gate (ha gate...fitting, just realized) but arrive in San Fran using different freeways and thus our scenery and landmarks vary, but its basically the same in general (city), so the sharing and comparing's value is in what does correspond, yet also the variation is valid as a personal journey perspective. Adaptability...a warriors tool.

[Guest]