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watergaze wrote:
Bob May wrote:
It passes because of the cycles and it also will pass entirely. It also can be because of problems in life. We all have them.
While we are here beneath a certain level of understanding we must learn to balance the good things with the bad.
Hm .
Bob wrote:
My sixteen year old son had a close friend die just a few weeks ago by his own hand. My son had been planning on spending the night at his house that coming weekend. He was actually the last person who had any contact with his friend by text message the day of his death.
How can my son balance that? Why hadn't this boy had someone to talk to that would instill in him the need to balance his sorrow with something better?
We are surrounded by death and life. Choose life. It is as simple as that but it is an effort to put into practice.
Bob wrote:
We seem to be speaking about balance here.
My teacher always cautioned against wild swings of emotion. To go back and forth from great joy to great sorrow is not balance.
I think I understand your point.
I understand that what I said could be taken from a negative point of view as well. But I also said my emotions were too strong and bordered on pain, which was not a healthy state. I know this all the more now, when they are different and I do not go into these extremes anymore. Emotions are (should be) comfortable, mine are, and yes I agree balance is very important. Still, I see the feeling of sadness for what it is. And if we are healthy still this feeling comes. And as I said it has a practicality to it. I remember DJ said sadness is something like floating around the universe and that we just kind of pick it up because of that (paraphrase, no idea how exactly this was expressed or in what book)
It is hard if something like this happens to a young person, because yes, they are not balanced very well yet (I wasn't and my emotions were strong and painful). My most straining effort went not into dreaming or seeing or any of these 'other worldly' stuff, but into normal life, balancing myself, my emotions, becoming healthier, into cleansing and making myself more whole.
Glad to hear you are not going "overboard" any more. The beginning of our path must be used to strengthen us for the journey ahead. It was with me. I could not understand how unstable I was before I began looking into occult matters. My teacher used to call it "getting our feet on the grund." Don Juan called it the warrior's way.
And yes, we can use emotions. I write songs. My wife says that they are melancholy. Sadness can be a beautiful thing and it resonates with others. A melody can be sad. A harmony can be sad and it has been known for years that minor chords are sad and major chords are happy. In the middle ages some "modes" or chords were actually banned by the Catholic Church as being demonic.
If everything was created by a word, then everything i vibration of some sort or other.
So what is "floating out there" can be tuned into. Just as if you strike a tuning fork in a room the strings of a guitar that are harmonic to that tuning fork will begin to vibrate also.
watergaze wrote:
What would you compare this abyss to in CC's teachings? Is it the loss of human forms? In shamanic terms it would be death I guess, how they die and come back again. When reading your posts I often read Daath as Death . This concept you write about is something totally new, I have no knowledge of it, so I am trying to understand it through what I know..
Bob wrote:
To actually experience something spiritual instead of just reading it or accepting it in theory would be touching on Daath. True experiential knowledge. It has nothing to do with death. It is Revelation. Something of another, higher realm than we ever imagined existed actually touching us. I never knew what it felt like to be a father until I watched my first son being born. Then it was a miracle.
This is an analogy of course, but an appropriate one.
The way you describe it it seems as something we all know/do/experience. Experiencing.. Gaining knowledge through experiencing. Somehow it seemed as something much more mystical when you were writing about it before . Now I am not sure anymore, will have to reread what you wrote.. Though, ok, you saying "true" knowledge makes it a bit more mystical .
There are four worlds and a tree in each world. So, if I see the same Principle happening in the physical or psychological realm as is happening in the Spiritual realms it is no suprise. As above, so below. Mysticism is not "spooky." It is just a study of the way things work. Both visible and invisible things. That is how allegory works. That is the study of the tree of life. The pattern of how things work, whether on the physical, astral/psychological, spiritual or divine. When we understand how things work here in the earth plane, we can surmise how they work in higher planes. And when we actually experience something there we are better equiped to recognise what is happening spiritually.
Bob wrote:
In Revelations Jesus refers to himself as Alpha and Omega. The beginning and end.
Solomon said no man can find out the work of God from beginning to end. He was right.
We must recieve the Spirit of God in order to reach across the abyss. To go from troubled to astonished.
Until then we are operating from the spirit and mind of man.
After that we are operating from the mind of Christ and the Spirit of God.
...
In the Qabalah, that abyss is called Daath, (Knowledge)
This is knowledge that is experiential in it's character. Becoming "one with" something as a man and wife become one body during intercourse.
But to cross that abyss is not possible for "Natural Man."
...
So what is impossible with man is possible with God.
This is the abyss that Solomon came to. But what was not yet available to him is available to us.
We are surrounded by the Kingdom of Heaven.
We must receive the spirit of God in order to reach across the abyss = we must receive the spirit of God in order to reach knowledge through experience..
Before we receive the spirit of God we are operating from the spirit and mind of man.
I guess I was asking about how this receiving of the spirit of God happens, that was the question about losing human form or dying. For me it seemed that is what opens to us the crossing over the abyss - the abyss I could imagine at least . What makes us very close with Spirit - which in my mind kind of resonates with your "receive the spirit of God"
But now from what you tell me it looks like I mixed apples with pears . Could you please just say this in some layman's terms? Are you saying that to have true experiential knowledge we need to receive the spirit of God? What is spirit of God in this sense? How do we receive it?
I am not sure I am very good with analogies . Thank you for the fresh breeze of inspiring ideas though..We recieve the spirit by believing that Jesus is the son of God. That He came from the Father, the Creator. It is as simple as that.
Many believe this and go on about their lives as usual.
But going across the abyss in this life is "optional."
The Spirit can manifest to us in many ways. We can recieve things from the Father through our own mind. Wisdom, understanding ,and other gifts like discernment of spirits, understanding other tongues, signs and wonders, visions and dreams, revelations, etc., Power can come down from above or we can be pulled up and experience other realms.
I have experienced these things.
To me it has always been a burning question in my mind that is difficult to put into words.
What is this all about? There has to be something more than living for 70 or 80 years and raising children and working just to have them do the same thing.
What would be the point in that?
I started out my spiritual studies with the books of Don Juan. I had some life altering experiences. As I got deeper into study I found a teacher who also began with occult studies. He, at an early age was looking for Power, not for selfish reasons but because he was a healer and wanted to help people. He asked a budhist monk what was the most powerful form of magic. He was told by the monk that it was the Qabala.
I was not interested in power. But in knowing what lies behind the scenes.
I have had some visions and was pulled up very high into a blinding light, I fell into a plane of darkness once that was completely void of light or hope, I have seen angels and Jesus and demons and worn the Coat of Many Colors.
But the flashes of inspiration (Wisdom, knowledge) and growing Understanding seem to be what I have experienced most. And it is these that are most important to me.
The experiences that I had while practicing the Don Juan were strange indeed. You may say that I experienced going across an abyss and experienced a different order of existence.
Some of the experiences I've had after coming to the Qabalah and the bible are of another order of being completely.
"It has not entered the hearts and minds what God has in store for His children."
The things of God are beyond our ability to imagine.
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Do you think its that we know God from beginning to end, or rather in God there is seen no beginning or end, whereas in worldly view its beginning/end, cause/effect. I think so, I think in 'worldly mind', explanations are sought in linear fashion which means to the one seeking in such a way...something must begin and something must end. Yet that's just a thought.
For example, one driving in their car sees a person walking along a desert highway. Linear mind...may assume, one its a person who is walking, two the person was born here on earth and thus they will die, and three, that person therefore must be just like them.
A seer/sorcerer may see, one its not a person who is walking, two its birth/death are unknowns, and three, they are not just like them...
And this was significant to me becasue it asks the question (not directly though):
Why do we make people into people with our thoughts when in fact they are not people? Such as an IB walking on a road that looks human. If its an IB we could tell, because we have extra perceptual faculties (see energy). But we can't tell if we are closed off to being aware of this sense.
And this applies to other things besides people. The world is so concrete in thought-- much is assumed and thus overlooked in examination and its rarely given a second glance. Such as, do you know the power spots where you live? Have you located them? Or do you even think there are such things as power spots? Think instead they have no reality/function? And if you DO think they are real and have a purpose, and you have not located them, why on earth not? The 'you' here is general, to anyone reading this.
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Nu Lang wrote:
Do you think its that we know God from beginning to end, or rather in God there is seen no beginning or end, whereas in worldly view its beginning/end, cause/effect. I think so, I think in 'worldly mind', explanations are sought in linear fashion which means to the one seeking in such a way...something must begin and something must end. Yet that's just a thought.
For example, one driving in their car sees a person walking along a desert highway. Linear mind...may assume, one its a person who is walking, two the person was born here on earth and thus they will die, and three, that person therefore must be just like them.
A seer/sorcerer may see, one its not a person who is walking, two its birth/death are unknowns, and three, they are not just like them...
And this was significant to me becasue it asks the question (not directly though):
Why do we make people into people with our thoughts when in fact they are not people? Such as an IB walking on a road that looks human. If its an IB we could tell, because we have extra perceptual faculties (see energy). But we can't tell if we are closed off to being aware of this sense.
And this applies to other things besides people. The world is so concrete in thought-- much is assumed and thus overlooked in examination and its rarely given a second glance. Such as, do you know the power spots where you live? Have you located them? Or do you even think there are such things as power spots? Think instead they have no reality/function? And if you DO think they are real and have a purpose, and you have not located them, why on earth not? The 'you' here is general, to anyone reading this.
The cause and effect world we are in has it's beginning in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Do good, Get good. Do evil, get evil.
The tree of life, on the other hand is eternal and it's fruit leads to eternal life. No beginning and no end. No cause and effect. Direct knowing instead of partial knowledge.
As far as power spots go. A mystic brings his power spots with him. It is an awareness, not a place.
Ge 28:11
And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
Ge 28:12
And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
13
And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Ge 28:14
And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Ge 28:15
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Ge 28:16
And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
Ge 28:17
And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
This "House of God" and "Gate of Heaven" was not a place but an awakening. Jacob became aware of something he was not aware of before this dream.
He got a glimse of it and it was promised that he would return there (to that awareness) again.
As far as physical power spots go. Cahokia Mounds in southern Illinois is pretty cool.
http://www.ask.com/web?q=cahokia%20moun ... o=US&ver=5
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There is a power spot I located here, when I am there Spirit communications are heightened. More likely to receive clear omens and gestures communicated during that time.
Recently they put up two sculptures there. The sculptures are of two giant hands, the palms face each other. On the right (as I approached it was on the right) the palm has a pair of closed eyes. So human eyes are on the palm portion of the hand but closed eyes. The hand on the left faces the right one, so they mirror each other...as if you held your palms up facing each other abotu to clap. The left palm has human eyes too but the eyes are open.
The message communicated to me the right is tonal and left is nagual. The right is closed so sees only inner reflection and recycles its own reflections over and over, thinking its new but its only reflection. The left is ever the witness, eyes always open seeing the world, so its employment as witness means it does not need to reflect, it is always seeing the present moment. Also, the left sees the right but the right is not aware of the left due to its eyes closed. This represents the nagual resides over the tonal. The tonal is unaware of the nagual, so a tonal mindset is not linked with nagual awareness, only self reflect even if its shared/collective self reflections.
Also, the right could open it eyes, take in the nagual, but then if it closes them again it took what it saw and adds it to self refection once eyes are closed, so the information it has becomes contaminated, in Buddhism this would be called 'ignorance'. But it also shows a progressive process, that each time the right could open its eyes, it gets a boost and centimeter of change to alter its interior view by taking in the nagual to impact its reflective state. Over time a momentum could gather, if there is discipline to do so, and thus the eye could become completely open, the witness. And this also describes what the third eye is...ever open witness.
Also at this power spot I pay attention to the behavior of people, they indicate what is happening in other areas and so the people serve as messengers in how they behave...what they say or do. Like actors sending forth spirits messages/teachings.
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A power spot brings us power as it makes us aware of things we were not aware of, yet need to be, so its personal yet impersonal. The impersonal directs and shows the personal us what we need to see and its tailored to our power (which is ability to be aware and utilize it..our inner impersonal nature) Once we become aware we can use that knowledge to further our spiritual paths.
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And the two hands could also correlate with the two trees you talk about Bob...tree of knowledge and tree of life. Self reflection within its state is a form of knowledge (world knowledge) and certainly the dual nature of good and evil, but it lacks the awareness of the eternal (nagual) that would break the hold/fixation upon the dual struggle.
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Bob May wrote:Glad to hear you are not going "overboard" any more. The beginning of our path must be used to strengthen us for the journey ahead. It was with me. I could not understand how unstable I was before I began looking into occult matters. My teacher used to call it "getting our feet on the grund." Don Juan called it the warrior's way.
I agree that before going into the unknown one should build a stable base, especially females are prone to floating around . A lot of people just seek fascination and kicks to get through their otherwise boring lives, which is ok for starters (it is a good hook). However if one does not do the work of balancing out it won't lead very far. I am not the one to talk, I have a way to go, but I can see this.
Bob wrote:And yes, we can use emotions. I write songs. My wife says that they are melancholy. Sadness can be a beautiful thing and it resonates with others. A melody can be sad. A harmony can be sad and it has been known for years that minor chords are sad and major chords are happy.
If everything was created by a word, then everything i vibration of some sort or other.
The universe is singing. I found this always very magical.
Bob May wrote:In the middle ages some "modes" or chords were actually banned by the Catholic Church as being demonic.
Would be interesting to hear something of that kind, wonder what feeling it would give..
I know that music that is made with a different musical (tone) scale (I mean the number of tones in a scale, for example the pentatonic scale. we have a heptatonic scale) give me a somewhat different feeling sometimes, when listening to them.
Bob May wrote:There are four worlds and a tree in each world. So, if I see the same Principle happening in the physical or psychological realm as is happening in the Spiritual realms it is no suprise. As above, so below. Mysticism is not "spooky." It is just a study of the way things work. Both visible and invisible things. That is how allegory works. That is the study of the tree of life. The pattern of how things work, whether on the physical, astral/psychological, spiritual or divine. When we understand how things work here in the earth plane, we can surmise how they work in higher planes. And when we actually experience something there we are better equiped to recognise what is happening spiritually.
.....
He asked a budhist monk what was the most powerful form of magic. He was told by the monk that it was the Qabala.
This 4 world model is from the Qabala (?Kabbalah)? Maybe a look into it would be rewarding, I don't know since I never really appreciated religion, so Qabala never grabbed my interest. If I met Christians like you maybe I would have had a different outlook on these kinds of things. Generally I can say that I do not feel like stuffing my nose into books if I do not see they are having some effect on me. Study something really long to understand something that I can understand better and faster by doing and not studying .
Going through a labyrinth of information, a lot of it incorrect because of a bad interpretation or faulty background info.. erm I have had enough of that at university. A paper on the early sources for the Merlin myth can cure one of such tendencies . I can imagine how one goes from book to book, digging up stuff..
But of course, if the book is full of energy, then it is irrelevant what I think. The energy that flows in the pages, behind the words. If it has an impact on me then I would read it .
I agree that mysticism is not spooky though . Spooky as in scary (just saying this out loud so you see my connection of English words). Mysticism is not scary.
I do not know how Qabala is, but generally I do not like mystification and that is exactly what authors of sorcery magic books do. I really like a kind of no nonsense approach. And I kind of found something close to that in Castaneda and shamanism.
I think things are inherently simple. Making stuff difficult is some kind of a morbid edge that men have. Once we understand we see simplicity.
Bob May wrote:We recieve the spirit by believing that Jesus is the son of God. That He came from the Father, the Creator. It is as simple as that.
Is it not enough to believe there is a God and to love him? Must we believe Jesus is the son of God? I do not think I can come around to that . He came from the creator, sure, but so did we, so.. either we are all sons (daughters) of God or no body is. And if we are all, why ephasize Jesus so much?
I could go with the idea of God, because I can very easily see him as Spirit. However, to believe in Jesus is something altogheter different for me, but I am not educated in the Christian manner. Do you think Jesus was some kind of special being, and by special I mean not just an evolved human that all of us could become? Because only then and maybe not even then does someone deserve or even entice the option of being worshipped. But then you do not talk of worhship, you just said "believing that Jesus is the son of God". I could see Jesus as a great teacher, enlightened being, a master, something of that kind...
Anyway to extract this info you gave and use it on my kind of stuff/concept would be: Believe. And that is true. We need to believe, have faith, have hope, and thus also have certainty. But based on good things, not false ones. Not to have the ground give way under us.
I know CC does not lead us far enough, he provides some hooks and pushes us on the path, giving us a few leads. But his concept is missing something important and I cannot put my finger on it what it is. But he does give us the concepts... After that everyone has to figure it out themselves. So hard and so simple. He cannot tell us what out path with a heart is, how could he?
Bob May wrote:I was not interested in power. But in knowing what lies behind the scenes.
Because of this you were able to study stuff, because it tells of what is behind the scenes and it tells it from the start. What I am most interested in is not this. Sure I like to know, but there are more important things. For example doctors sometimes know what is happening, how things work (or think they do), but they cannot heal. Someone can heal and doesn't even know how it works. I love to know how stuff works, I am very curious and ask a lot of questions about things. But if I am to chose between knowing and doing, i chose the more practical of the two, which is doing. Practicality is something like my Achilles heel, if I do not see that something is working I lose interest . This is of course generally speaking. I can go with long term stuff , like conserving energy so that i can have a big container of it in xyz years. This is also considered practical by me .
Bob May wrote:To me it has always been a burning question in my mind that is difficult to put into words.
What is this all about? There has to be something more than living for 70 or 80 years and raising children and working just to have them do the same thing.
What would be the point in that?
I think everyone has these thoughts, just that most people don't have the guts to follow them. Or most people don't find a reason to..
Bob May wrote:The experiences that I had while practicing the Don Juan were strange indeed. You may say that I experienced going across an abyss and experienced a different order of existence.
Some of the experiences I've had after coming to the Qabalah and the bible are of another order of being completely.
Interesting. Of another order of being. Do you see it as DJ told us in CCs books, that it is important to find the between in things? Like between our normal world view and the sorceric world view? The christian / qabalistic (don't know how to call it) world view could then be one among all these world views that one can chose to use for this. Or do you see that the christian / qabalistic world view is leading one to the destination that is already like that (like DJ said)? Hope this question makes sense
Bob May wrote:I have had some visions and was pulled up very high into a blinding light, I fell into a plane of darkness once that was completely void of light or hope, I have seen angels and Jesus and demons and worn the Coat of Many Colors.
This made me remember something. Once I was at a seminar of core-shamanism. There the shaman did a spirit journey for a woman, she brought something for her, I think she said it is called a coat of many colors. She said it is something hm i don't know like a concept, like something functional for her, not specially for her, but like a state she has reached, something like that. I do not remember it well, was years ago, maybe 3-4 and I did not note it down. I just suddenly remembered it now. And I'm thinking it is interesting that if this is something from a Christian background that the shaman did this, brought it for that person. Hope I am not remembering it wrongly.. But I remember thinking it is a beautiful name .
Could you say a little bit about this coat of many colors? What kind of state is it? And when you say you have worn it you mean it is also something that passes? . Hm I also remember something about the shaman saying to the woman something about "saint", being a saint, being closer to saints, something of that kind. Maybe it was a cloak of saints and I just somehow confused it with your many colors cloak. Wish my memory was clearer .
Bob, thank you for saying all this
Do you think people on other paths can share these experiences? Or is it the homogeneous (homogenetic, organic) thing that comes your way, like you said other experiences while on CCs path as those on your other path? But something has stuck on you from CC, at least in the form of you sharing with us here on a CC/shaman forum .
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Nu Lang wrote:Why do we make people into people with our thoughts when in fact they are not people? Such as an IB walking on a road that looks human. If its an IB we could tell, because we have extra perceptual faculties (see energy). But we can't tell if we are closed off to being aware of this sense.
And this applies to other things besides people. The world is so concrete in thought-- much is assumed and thus overlooked in examination and its rarely given a second glance. Such as, do you know the power spots where you live? Have you located them? Or do you even think there are such things as power spots? Think instead they have no reality/function? And if you DO think they are real and have a purpose, and you have not located them, why on earth not? The 'you' here is general, to anyone reading this.
The most simple answer to this question of yours Nu Lang is that we cannot tell/see because we do not need it to survive. And by we I mean our society. Therefore first we need to switch concepts, or enrich or enlarge the one we have to encompass these kinds of things. For a human being going about his work, having kids and dying, the existence of these things is irrelevant. Society can survive without them. Society is above the individual everywhere. Our society survives thanks to people who procreate (work and do all the stuff that is usually done) and that is all that is needed. Simple as that. Our society has left these things out of its concept because it does not need them to survive.
This is different in shamanic societies, their concept of the world/ reality is different and they too have it to survive. Out societies, as they are now, cannot mix.
Locating of power spots.. well.. might not be as easy as you make it think. If I am exploring I sometimes find a power spot, it always makes me feel something special, but most of the times I do not and i still experience stuff. I do not know if I would go to the extreme as Bob May that we carry our power spots with us... I could go along with the thought that those who are already very far can do this, but it does not change the fact that some places are more powerful than others. But to some extent this also has to do with us. We each have our own special places, sometimes they are the same and general, other times they are very private. I found a power spot close to the house where I live now almost as soon as I started exploring it here. So guess I am not the one to ask why I have not located a power spot if I think they are real and have a purpose .
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Nu Lang wrote:
Also, the right could open it eyes, take in the nagual, but then if it closes them again it took what it saw and adds it to self refection once eyes are closed, so the information it has becomes contaminated, in Buddhism this would be called 'ignorance'. But it also shows a progressive process, that each time the right could open its eyes, it gets a boost and centimeter of change to alter its interior view by taking in the nagual to impact its reflective state. Over time a momentum could gather, if there is discipline to do so, and thus the eye could become completely open, the witness. And this also describes what the third eye is...ever open witness.
Also at this power spot I pay attention to the behavior of people, they indicate what is happening in other areas and so the people serve as messengers in how they behave...what they say or do. Like actors sending forth spirits messages/teachings.I just answered this post and lost it accidentally.
Oh well, basically the principle you are talking about is in the story of Jacob/ Israel.
Jacob is the "supplanter" and "seeking after God"
His name changes to Israel "Grace or Favor with man and God."
Each time he has a spiritual experience his name changes to Israel.
Grace or Favor is a gift. It is not earned.
Jacob is called the "supplanter" (taking the place of another) because he tricks his brother Esau out of his inheritance and later tricks his father Isaac into giving him Esau's birthright also. This is well known.
But further, I believe that this supplanting taking place also has to do with Jacob taking the place of Israel.
This change of name happens several times. when he wrestles with an angel until the breaking of dawn (enlightenment). When he sees the ladder set up which I partially described above. And a very important instance where it actually says that Israel is Jacob's spirit which has been asleep, apparently.
Ge 45:26
And told him, saying, Joseph is yet alive, and he is governor over all the land of Egypt. And Jacob's heart fainted, for he believed them not.
Ge 45:27
And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived:
Ge 45:28
And Israel said, It is enough; Joseph my son is yet alive: I will go and see him before I die.
Someone mentioned the coyote as trickster being the sorcerer's world or Astral planes. This sounds right to me. Jacob is a trickster. He is us.
We have a spiritual experience and turn it into an expanded part of our Tonal. We think we did it by our own effort.
But it is our desire to experience and know the unknown that brings us to these things.
Why are we different? Because we are Jacob. "Seeking after God." Seeking after the unknown.
But where did we get this yearning??? We, most of us were born with it, I think though maybe some got it later in life.
But most people could care less.
So the seeking after God (Jacob) that is a part of us is a gift (Israel) from God.
Don Juan said that Power dictated who would be an apprentice.
Jesus said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."
This awareness that it is all a gift, Grace, Favor, I believe helps us to keep the tonal from growing and taking over the spiritual side of things. Our world view expands but we know there is more to come.
Every time I've had what I consider a true Spiritual experience, (not just an astral level thing) it has been very different from anything I had experienced previously.
We are growing into the nagual as Don Juan might put it but growing in Christ in Christian terms. Fellow heirs, having recieved the birthright.
Going into a land we knew not.
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not."
"It has not entered into the hearts and minds of man what God has in store for his children."
It is beyond our ability to imagine.
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Bob May wrote:Someone mentioned the coyote as trickster being the sorcerer's world or Astral planes. This sounds right to me. Jacob is a trickster. He is us.
We have a spiritual experience and turn it into an expanded part of our Tonal. We think we did it by our own effort.
But it is our desire to experience and know the unknown that brings us to these things.
Why are we different? Because we are Jacob. "Seeking after God." Seeking after the unknown.
But where did we get this yearning??? We, most of us were born with it, I think though maybe some got it later in life.
This is what I was talking about.. the yearning, our desire brings us to these things.
Bob May wrote  on Juan said that Power dictated who would be an apprentice.
Jesus said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."
This awareness that it is all a gift, Grace, Favor, I believe helps us to keep the tonal from growing and taking over the spiritual side of things. Our world view expands but we know there is more to come.
Every time I've had what I consider a true Spiritual experience, (not just an astral level thing) it has been very different from anything I had experienced previously.
We are growing into the nagual as Don Juan might put it but growing in Christ in Christian terms. Fellow heirs, having recieved the birthright.
Going into a land we knew not.
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not."
"It has not entered into the hearts and minds of man what God has in store for his children."
It is beyond our ability to imagine.
And thus yes it is a gift, but let us say that we welcome it, with our longing and intent and hoping and wishing and yearning all that..
I wonder what is the difference between a spiritual experience and an "astral level thing", if it is possible to explain I do not know, but I do not understand this difference, language wise at least. But I can grasp it when you link the spiritual to being different from what you had previously experienced. The question that comes to me now is (if you do not mind me asking questions) does it always change you? Could change be a helpful term here? Or does it come even after astral experiences? (i do not really know what is meant by astral, the terminology is not very clear to me). I could imagine experiences that expand our world view that are different from all we experienced up till then and where it is truly surprising even if we have heard or read something about it, then it changes us. But sometimes just kind of slightly in the real world of acting, but our mind/self is as if reborn in some way. That would go with my understanding of Spiritual, but interesting is I never called it spiritual. And astral, well i guess i do not know what is meant by that. Is it just the other plains? Where we go travel? Or are there more of those and only some are astral? I have to admit sometimes i drive myself crazy when i start thinking and asking myself stuff. So, i understand if you do not want to explain astral 1.0 to me . The thing is one can have an experience even if one does not know what it is called or how it is classified, but it is so much better to know it, or have some sort of system (even if personal)...
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Erm, not sure what happened, but it is obvious that it was me who posted the last post, since it says watergaze .. . (Do not know how I got a .warrior suffix, I have not posted anything on the site called warrior at yuku)
I am reposting my post, and will try to get rid of that alias (if I am successful I do not know if that post will or will not be deleted, so hence I am reposting it).. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Bob May wrote:Someone mentioned the coyote as trickster being the sorcerer's world or Astral planes. This sounds right to me. Jacob is a trickster. He is us.
We have a spiritual experience and turn it into an expanded part of our Tonal. We think we did it by our own effort.
But it is our desire to experience and know the unknown that brings us to these things.
Why are we different? Because we are Jacob. "Seeking after God." Seeking after the unknown.
But where did we get this yearning??? We, most of us were born with it, I think though maybe some got it later in life.
This is what I was talking about.. the yearning, our desire brings us to these things.
Bob May wrote on Juan said that Power dictated who would be an apprentice.
Jesus said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."
This awareness that it is all a gift, Grace, Favor, I believe helps us to keep the tonal from growing and taking over the spiritual side of things. Our world view expands but we know there is more to come.
Every time I've had what I consider a true Spiritual experience, (not just an astral level thing) it has been very different from anything I had experienced previously.
We are growing into the nagual as Don Juan might put it but growing in Christ in Christian terms. Fellow heirs, having recieved the birthright.
Going into a land we knew not.
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not."
"It has not entered into the hearts and minds of man what God has in store for his children."
It is beyond our ability to imagine.
And thus yes it is a gift, but let us say that we welcome it, with our longing and intent and hoping and wishing and yearning all that..
I wonder what is the difference between a spiritual experience and an "astral level thing", if it is possible to explain I do not know, but I do not understand this difference, language wise at least. But I can grasp it when you link the spiritual to being different from what you had previously experienced. The question that comes to me now is (if you do not mind me asking questions) does it always change you? Could change be a helpful term here? Or does it come even after astral experiences? (i do not really know what is meant by astral, the terminology is not very clear to me). I could imagine experiences that expand our world view that are different from all we experienced up till then and where it is truly surprising even if we have heard or read something about it, then it changes us. But sometimes just kind of slightly in the real world of acting, but our mind/self is as if reborn in some way. That would go with my understanding of Spiritual, but interesting is I never called it spiritual. And astral, well i guess i do not know what is meant by that. Is it just the other plains? Where we go travel? Or are there more of those and only some are astral? I have to admit sometimes i drive myself crazy when i start thinking and asking myself stuff. So, i understand if you do not want to explain astral 1.0 to me . The thing is one can have an experience even if one does not know what it is called or how it is classified, but it is so much better to know it, or have some sort of system (even if personal)...[/quote]
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I found a power spot close to the house where I live now almost as soon as I started exploring it here. So guess I am not the one to ask why I have not located a power spot if I think they are real and have a purpose . I should have added to my post the other option of those who did find power spots as I meant that too. The main point I was saying is if one does think power spots are useful, then they should seek them out, which really means to fine tune ones senses to be that of a sorcerer rather then common man. You are right, common man is not concerned with power spots and if you were to talk to a person about it, they may laugh in your face, call you crazy, get scared, etc. But those involved in sorcery understandings, and not making the physical effort to be a sorcerer, it could be for a number of reasons. Sometimes I think its becasue some sorcerers do not see themselves as being sorcerers, which is a shame. Because that doubtful intent will only hold them fixed in doubt and even can extend to resenting those who can do sorcery.
You obviously do not apply to the above as you located a power spot as soon as you arrived and perhaps it just came natural to you or perhaps you intended to locate it, you know the answer to that, but the point is I see no barriers in your perception of your ability to do this. You could have told me a number of things if my question made you uncomfortable, such as...power spots are the old ways, or power spots are a misinterpretation of something else, or power spots may not really be power spots and people mistaken them, or power spots are not of use...
But its a shame when people acquainted and initiated in sorcery do this. I understand common man, but a magical being denying his/her own magical nature due to inadequacy...they hinder themselves and then seek to slow others down out of jealousy. I've seen this happen. The skepticism of regular man enters in to a sorcerers view and contaminates it and makes them neither compatible in the sorcerer world nor fitting in with common man, more like no mans land. They use logic to speak sorcery principles...see that combination?...logic, the common mans fare, and sorcery principles. First of all sorcery is about doing first and foremost...getting results and the results verify the nature of reality, and that is that reality is fluid and can shift (ap) so there is no concrete reality as logic man thinks. Now thats an assertion to readers and its so easy to make and it so very easy to state a contrary opinion. So making assertions is easy. But verifying it (experience) is what makes all the difference and its the place where a person is transformed forever. Because no longer will they serve logical means of the ordered universe once they see that order can be rearranged and they can do it.
A common question in some sorcery circles seems to be... why do it...isn't there more important things to do that practice the old ways? Sorcery is seen as the old way, and the new way is freedom. Well, I don't see any incompatibility in the two. Seeing that reality is fluid and being able to make it happen (sorcery) actually frees one from perception of ordinary reality which appears fixed (ap). So sorcery liberates. The more one can perform sorcery, the more one is convinced freedom is possible and they have it within their own hands to achieve it.
I had something weird happen to me on this site too recently. I went to send someone a PM. I was clearly in my PM account typing it up. When I hit send, my very private PM, lol, ended up as a post in Inner Landscape. I assure you I was not in Inner Landscape when I wrote it but it somehow ended up there and I saw my avatar and time of post all that stuff. And it was meant for an individual not the internet public area. So I wanted to get back to erase it, first I copied it so as to transport it to PM once I erased it from the post area, but then my computer slowed down and I was like "great, my PM is stuck as a post out there and I cannot get to it" then a minute later I got my computer back working and went to get the post and it was not there, nor was there any PM sent and when I went to paste what I had copied, no paste option. Nothing. So it all happened and even it disappearing even though I know it did post in IL. Thats sorcery. I have many more things I could say, some much more shocking perhaps, examples of sorcery, but I find that telling people abotu them does not necessarily mean anything to them as any person is free to doubt my words and so unless they experience it, it means nothing unless they are previously experienced in sorcery too in which case they understand it happens and there is no logic to it, yet it can be harnessed in a focused way.
So sorcery is not logical. Yet we can find some order/organization in it, its just one has to constantly adapt as there is a high level of unpredictability. So being accustomed to the unbelievable is key. Not expecting C to follow A and B helps. Man, fron his birth gets indocrinated into the linear path (C follows A and B), yet its but one path, very insignificant in the scope of what our human possibilities are. It helps us survive here (the rational thinking way), but the trick is to use it for that and learn sorcery aside from it so as to survive in other realities. Why? Because what else are you goign to do? Live out a logical exisitence and then expect when you die you will somehow survive another reality you are unfamiliar with? The only way to transcend to other realities is to give up linear/logical limitations.
Its amazing what we can do when we just believe we can do it. Being open to power. Being open means being empty of all the stuff common man carries around that would cloud everything and make the world appear as such and such and so and so.
What interests me about power spots is they are here and are locatable and once located things happen. Its like if you were in the wilderness and needed water, so you sought to locate an underground stream, and once you did you felt accomplished and you could drink and thus survive. For a wilderness person this is an important achievement as it is further indication they can survive in the world they seek out.
For sorcerers/seers, locating a power spot is a very practical act. Its not way out there new age mumbo jumbo, but if one thinks that way, so shall it be, and nothing you can tell them to change their mind. Unfortunately they become like common man, even if they consider themselves apart from the masses, they are taking on that mass skepticism that keeps man prisoner in this rational conventional trap that is non-magical in its approach and uses logical means to interpret the world and thus activation of thinking process rather than feeling/sensing. A sorcerer uses feeling/senses and extrasensory at that to locate things outside the norm such as power spots...thats only one aspect.
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The Earth has many power spots. She allows us, sometimes, the opportunity to use it, if we are wise.
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Bob May wrote:Nu Lang wrote:
Also, the right could open it eyes, take in the nagual, but then if it closes them again it took what it saw and adds it to self refection once eyes are closed, so the information it has becomes contaminated, in Buddhism this would be called 'ignorance'. But it also shows a progressive process, that each time the right could open its eyes, it gets a boost and centimeter of change to alter its interior view by taking in the nagual to impact its reflective state. Over time a momentum could gather, if there is discipline to do so, and thus the eye could become completely open, the witness. And this also describes what the third eye is...ever open witness.
Also at this power spot I pay attention to the behavior of people, they indicate what is happening in other areas and so the people serve as messengers in how they behave...what they say or do. Like actors sending forth spirits messages/teachings.I just answered this post and lost it accidentally.
Oh well, basically the principle you are talking about is in the story of Jacob/ Israel.
Jacob is the "supplanter" and "seeking after God"
His name changes to Israel "Grace or Favor with man and God."
Each time he has a spiritual experience his name changes to Israel.
Grace or Favor is a gift. It is not earned.
Jacob is called the "supplanter" (taking the place of another) because he tricks his brother Esau out of his inheritance and later tricks his father Isaac into giving him Esau's birthright also. This is well known.
But further, I believe that this supplanting taking place also has to do with Jacob taking the place of Israel.
This change of name happens several times. when he wrestles with an angel until the breaking of dawn (enlightenment). When he sees the ladder set up which I partially described above. And a very important instance where it actually says that Israel is Jacob's spirit which has been asleep, apparently.
Ge 45:26
And told him, saying, Joseph is yet alive, and he is governor over all the land of Egypt. And Jacob's heart fainted, for he believed them not.
Ge 45:27
And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived:
Ge 45:28
And Israel said, It is enough; Joseph my son is yet alive: I will go and see him before I die.
Someone mentioned the coyote as trickster being the sorcerer's world or Astral planes. This sounds right to me. Jacob is a trickster. He is us.
We have a spiritual experience and turn it into an expanded part of our Tonal. We think we did it by our own effort.
But it is our desire to experience and know the unknown that brings us to these things.
Why are we different? Because we are Jacob. "Seeking after God." Seeking after the unknown.
But where did we get this yearning??? We, most of us were born with it, I think though maybe some got it later in life.
But most people could care less.
So the seeking after God (Jacob) that is a part of us is a gift (Israel) from God.
Don Juan said that Power dictated who would be an apprentice.
Jesus said, "You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you."
This awareness that it is all a gift, Grace, Favor, I believe helps us to keep the tonal from growing and taking over the spiritual side of things. Our world view expands but we know there is more to come.
Every time I've had what I consider a true Spiritual experience, (not just an astral level thing) it has been very different from anything I had experienced previously.
We are growing into the nagual as Don Juan might put it but growing in Christ in Christian terms. Fellow heirs, having recieved the birthright.
Going into a land we knew not.
"Surely the Lord is in this place and I knew it not."
"It has not entered into the hearts and minds of man what God has in store for his children."
It is beyond our ability to imagine.Yes, its a gradual thing isn't it. Like the right hand palm if we imagine its able to open it eyes with some exertion (maybe like when we are groggy with sleep), that feeling, so a bit of difficulty, but every time it opens its eyes, it becomes more like the left hand palm which is eternally open. God or Nagual. This is another way of saying its simply breaking that mirror of self-reflection that keeps one fixated on a self that is cut off from its environment to greater or lesser degrees. Power is the environment and also us. The reflection in the mirror is an illusion that drains focus and concentration onto trivial matters. Which may not seem trivial but using death as an adviser we see it is indeed trivial.
Such as the reflective process may tell us that an argument we just had was 'important' and the fact our view point was not heard was important. But if we were to then experience the wave of death upon us, the argument does not mean anything to us anymore and it never truly did (we may even wish to embrace that person one last time before we die, tell them we love them etc), only the mirror image held us in hypnotic suspension prior to realization of death. So then a person may ask, should ask..why am I engaging my energy in this futile way?
Here is the interesting part to me...once we see the futility of the argument, we may continue to engage with the person, except this time we do it with awakened awareness and intent (left hand). The other person may not know a shift occurred. It does not matter. Truth is, the world does not just stop being the way it is becasue we have an epiphany, in fact, we shift and thus we stop ourselves,simultaneously continuing on as if nothing different happened by external appearances, except that we seek to now harmonize with power around us (and with others) which will change our behavior away from its haphazard, careless states to instead focus new intent upon matters. It may not mean we apologize to the other person, in fact in some instances we may continue to stand our ground, sever ties even. SO, one cannot predict what those actions would be, as power adjusts continuously and thus has no fixed position. Power is simply an absence of self concern and thus acting accordingly to maintain the link with power. To enter into concern of self is to lose the link. So action is dictated by link alone and not any morals, cares, judgements that arise of mind/emotions.
Those who look for conclusions based on whats said and done will be mislead by what they conclude when encountering one who acts from power (only knowing intent informs here). A person with power has to live among fellow men this way being misunderstood, its called controlled folly. However, such a person linked to the nagual helps bring the light of awareness (power) into the environment by nature of what they intend and awareness they practice (expanded consciousness). I only mention this as its an added effect that comes along with power. One, as I see it, does not intend to save humanity, one simply seeks the nagual and to practice such awareness in ones acts to draw an even closer link. "Saving humanity, fellow humans" as a thought-concept is one of many mental deliberations (not of power).
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Hi Nu Lang and Watergaze,
""So sorcery is not logical. Yet we can find some order/organization in it, its just one has to constantly adapt as there is a high level of unpredictability. So being accustomed to the unbelievable is key. Not expecting C to follow A and B helps. Man, fron his birth gets indocrinated into the linear path (C follows A and B), yet its but one path, very insignificant in the scope of what our human possibilities are. It helps us survive here (the rational thinking way), but the trick is to use it for that and learn sorcery aside from it so as to survive in other realities. Why? Because what else are you goign to do? Live out a logical exisitence and then expect when you die you will somehow survive another reality you are unfamiliar with? The only way to transcend to other realities is to give up linear/logical limitations.""
""
And thus yes it is a gift, but let us say that we welcome it, with our longing and intent and hoping and wishing and yearning all that..
I wonder what is the difference between a spiritual experience and an "astral level thing", if it is possible to explain I do not know, but I do not understand this difference, language wise at least. But I can grasp it when you link the spiritual to being different from what you had previously experienced. The question that comes to me now is (if you do not mind me asking questions) does it always change you? Could change be a helpful term here? Or does it come even after astral experiences? (i do not really know what is meant by astral, the terminology is not very clear to me). I could imagine experiences that expand our world view that are different from all we experienced up till then and where it is truly surprising even if we have heard or read something about it, then it changes us. But sometimes just kind of slightly in the real world of acting, but our mind/self is as if reborn in some way. That would go with my understanding of Spiritual, but interesting is I never called it spiritual. And astral, well i guess i do not know what is meant by that. Is it just the other plains? Where we go travel? Or are there more of those and only some are astral? I have to admit sometimes i drive myself crazy when i start thinking and asking myself stuff. So, i understand if you do not want to explain astral 1.0 to me . The thing is one can have an experience even if one does not know what it is called or how it is classified, but it is so much better to know it, or have some sort of system (even if personal)...[/quote]""
Both of your comments intertwine. Nu Lang spoke of A, B, and C. Watergaze asked about the Astral plane.
Because we find ourselves in a cause/effect world, because of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we expect as ordinary human beings to see A,B, and C. We always have even if it has to be explained by science. If we have to use a telescope or microscope to find the A that leads to B and then C we do so. We have come that far technologically to be able to see the "invisible causes" that lead to effects that are visible.
This is all still Earth Plane stuff. Matter.
Don Juan went beyond this right from the beginning when teaching Carlos. The very first thing he brought to his attention was what he called "the world agreeing with him" or "reaffirmations from the world around him. This phenomena consisted of seeming coincidences that actually had meaning. The more you pay attention to them the more they happen.
when we begin to see that those things actually happen we are seeing C, with no apparent A or B. But there is no denying that C, (the effect) we are witnessing is meaningful to us.
After a few years of practicing Don Juan's methods I "stopped the world." It is not just a nice phrase, it is an experience in which reaffirmations reach the point of being constant. In effect every phenomena experienced has two meanings. One is the normal person's viewpoint and the other is the "sorcerer's viewpoint." Two people can witness C, but only the apprentice/sorcerer will witness both B and C. His reference point has been expanded.
Let's say that the Aprentice/sorcerer has been immersed in the lower Astral plane.
Now to take it a step further. A man of knowledge or mystic sees the two worlds of B and C as illusion and realises that there is apparently some intelligent something "out there" as evidenced by Coincidences having meaning. This intelligent something makes apparently unconnected things line up in order to convey meaning to one who's eyes have opened to the point of being able to see both B and C. But he also realizes that both B and C are only part of the picture. The mystic calls this intelligent something God or Spirit. The man of knowledge calls it Spirit or Power or Nagual.
The normal man lives his life within the triangle of Malkuth, Hod and Netsach.
The sorcerer, within the area covered by Yesod, Hod, Netsach and Malkuth.
The man of knowledge or mystic tries to live in Tipareth which has access through the paths (awarenesses) to the entire tree.
Just outside of a normal man's worldview or descrition of this world (Malkuth) is the viewpoint of someone who has experienced something of the paranormal (Yesod) we could call that the astral world. Both the normal man's world view or description and the sorcerer's worldview and description are self reflective. We interpret them from past experience.
When you touch on the Sphere of Tipareth there is a direct path that leads to Chokmah across the Abyss of Daath. Here there is no need of interpretation. You just know something you did not know before. This is what I call a Spiritual experience.
An example would be that normal men look at another person and sees a physical body and can ascertain a lot about that other person by body language and age and the expression on their face.
A person operating from the second point of view might see them as an egg of energy or as a body surrounded by layers of light or auras. which they may or may not be able to interpret.
A person operating from the next level will be able to look at the other person and know what they are thinking, know whether or not they are lying and know when they are lying to themselves or just to you. So that both their general character and their momentary thoughts are layed bare at a level that even the person being observed
doesn't know about themselves. Also the person does not look at all like a human being.
Astral is a general term and can apply to probalby several levels. It is not so simple as I have presented it, but I have not experienced every possible level of anything. I have only touched on some things.
I see reality as more of a rainbow type of thing. One thing bleeds into another and another gradually. There are many shades of purple between red and blue.
I am not so interested in the bodies or vehicles as I am the awarenesses.
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Yes its different, a different perspective and one learns to accept it, even joyfully as each instance is a reminder the world is magical, not logical.
Logic can be a drag. At first its fun, when you are a kid, because logic gives you control. Like I remember when I learned to tie my shoes. I remember practicing and being a bit frustrated but determined. Then once I got the bow to come out perfectly, and it looked like other people's did, I was ecstatic. Now I can tie my own shoes! A freedom. And then other things followed, linear procedures I learned to do. So we invest trust and emotion in logic during our childhood, which makes it hard to let go of it later. Except a sorcerer WANTS to let it go, so magic-events are the new 'shoe laces'. The old shoes, no longer interest, ...yeah I can tie them, big deal. I often just leave then tied and then slip them on again next time, lol, so as to not have to tie them.
But the new options beckon. A good example, though I could give more, is when I made that PM and it became a post in IL. If I were overly logical, such event would upset me. It would be a C minus the A and B. My mind would be afraid of not being able to explain it and thus would mean I really don't understand/control my world as I thought.
The next step would be to try to find a cause..."I really was in IL, I just thought I was in my PM, but that does not explain how the post later disappeared after i saw it???...well maybe I only think I saw it. That must be it, or maybe it was a computer glitch..."
Trying to find cause. If one succeeds in finding a cause, even if its only in their mind, they put themselves back in the 'normal' world. Some prefer this, its a form of control. Logic gives us a sense of control, again from childhood and it was our child mind that embraced it, so embraced it from the magical resonance of child-like wonder.
The trick is to just switch that wonder and to also know that sorcery is not about locating the cause, the cause is somewhat always a mystery. In fact the world was forever this way we just forgot...the wonder. For example, if you put a seed in soil and water it, it can grow into a tree. But we don't know how. We cannot make our own seed, imbue it with life force, the life force ..force...is a mystery. But it can be harnessed.
A sorcerer can intend something. I imagine a really powerful sorcerer could intend a tree to be in a place there was no tree, and then its just there the next day. It IS possible. But the only way to know this is to experience something along these lines happen. Until it happens, one can easily doubt and deny it. .."the sorcerer is a trickster, snuck in and planted a tree in middle of the night".
The implications of the other possibility overwhelm many. "you mean intent can be a cause(B) with an effect ©?" Just intending something? That means reality is malleable, like clay and we are sculptors in a sense in that we are creatures of intent. What happens is ap shifts. And we knwo there's limitless possibilities in that. (A) is forever the mystery, the unknowable, God.
Some know this about sorcery, believe its real.. but say..."well that's a trap. Sorcery and doing such things becomes obsessions. One gets fixed on controlling reality then for their own means."
Its not like that actually. Some do go to the dark arts. But many of us don't and can't...it would destroy us to go against our destiny. A person destined to be a black magician will be given such opportunity (for a while at least), one without such destiny will not. Many of us are linked to the nagual and thus guided by such intent. Lets say we do use our power against another in a self serving way. We can be harmed back (immediately sometimes) as a result. When power has determined a certain path for us, it will be reinforced as we learn to let go of desire to control for self purpose. So some may say, "then power is like God, overseeing us." I have found this to be true yes, there is an intelligence of some kind that responds to us and our intent. It does not always give us what we want, so we learn to see what it wants for us. This is called following Spirit's indications. We were born into this destiny. Not only is following it imperative, we want to follow such a path as its what our heart wants naturally.
Just because one learned to harness sorcery does not automatically mean they then think of their self and what to gain. Often, harnessing sorcery makes one consider how it can be used to liberate from the world here, from anything fixed, which is deeply engrossed in self. Regular man, not sorcerers, are the most selfish. Thats why the rainforest it being ruined, the water and air polluted, animals becoming extinct and then scientists hired to tell everyone its not really happening or its not as bad as it sounds and progress is most important...this is selfishness and worse then any black magic because its done on such a mass level and so many people support it and those who don't are minorities and have less voice as a result.
Sorcery is a way out of this dead end. If one tried to use sorcery to go after oil companies, for example, such a person may see that their harmful intent backfires. Because that is harmful intent. Yes, oil companies cause many ills, but fighting fire with fire has consequences. So one learns to let go of this world. Let go of the good/evil struggle, Bob used the tree of knowledge example..knowledge of good and evil. Step beyond that to tree of life,...possibilities, endless, eternal possibilities. Non-linear, non-logical, real and also useable...our intent can harness it,this freedom, this assembling new position and this new awareness of reality and reality is not fixed by any means, so to be comfortable with this understanding.
A sorcerer is fascinated. Awed by his/her existence. Strives to be free of the cares and concerns that plague common man, free of the mentality that rules common man. A sorcerer can do or be virtually anything, yet many choose to be free. It doesn't happen over night of course, its the result of powers impact in their life. Showing them the only way to not suffer certain consequences is to not invest in selfhood intent. To acquiescence to Spirit, and follow it. To let one be a self for Spirit. Still a self of course...we don't stop living or avoid life, still enjoy it even, more... its just our self is not as it appears.
I see reality as more of a rainbow type of thing. One thing bleeds into another and another gradually. There are many shades of purple between red and blue.
I am not so interested in the bodies or vehicles as I am the awarenesses. -Bob
Agree!
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Nu Lang wrote:
Lot of good points here Nu Lang.
Yes its different, a different perspective and one learns to accept it, even joyfully as each instance is a reminder the world is magical, not logical.
Logic can be a drag. At first its fun, when you are a kid, because logic gives you control. Like I remember when I learned to tie my shoes. I remember practicing and being a bit frustrated but determined. Then once I got the bow to come out perfectly, and it looked like other people's did, I was ecstatic. Now I can tie my own shoes! A freedom. And then other things followed, linear procedures I learned to do. So we invest trust and emotion in logic during our childhood, which makes it hard to let go of it later. Except a sorcerer WANTS to let it go, so magic-events are the new 'shoe laces'. The old shoes, no longer interest, ...yeah I can tie them, big deal. I often just leave then tied and then slip them on again next time, lol, so as to not have to tie them.
I get a little confused about what is meant by logic. It reminds me of math but though math uses logic, logic does not mean math. To me it was always my last resort. I can use math if I have to but I can also find the same answers in other ways.
I was at work the other day and they were cutting down a rotten tree. We were discussing where we thought the tree would reach when it fell. would it reach to where the building stood nearby or would it fall short? So the problem was how tall was the tree?
One guy wanted to measure the height of the tree which was impossible without a very tall ladder.
Another held his arm up and pointed to the top of the tree at a 45 degree angle and backed up until his finger pointed exactly to the top of the tree, still being held at 45 degrees. However far he was from the center of the tree trunk would be the height of the tree.
I mentioned that the way one guy back in the 18th century measured the height of the Great pyramid was to put a stick into the ground straight up and down. Then wait until the time of day when the length of the shadow of the stick equaled the height of the stick. Now measure the shadow of the pyramid and you know the exact height of the tree or pyramid or whatever.
All three methods would enable you to precisely measure the tree. All three methods involve logic. If this , then that, then that.
My point with A, B, C is that a sorcerer has a greater reference than an average man because of his experience or theory of the world.
A man of knowledge has a greater reference than either a sorcerer or an average man.
A child many times has a greater reference than an average adult because they have not yet learned to discount the unseen elements of existence.
One thing I wanted to but forgot to add last post is a quote from Paul.
1co 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Unless our frame of reference includes something of what Paul refers to here as Spiritual we cannot use the logic that he refers to as "comparing spiritual things to spiritual."
But the new options beckon. A good example, though I could give more, is when I made that PM and it became a post in IL. If I were overly logical, such event would upset me. It would be a C minus the A and B. My mind would be afraid of not being able to explain it and thus would mean I really don't understand/control my world as I thought.
The next step would be to try to find a cause..."I really was in IL, I just thought I was in my PM, but that does not explain how the post later disappeared after i saw it???...well maybe I only think I saw it. That must be it, or maybe it was a computer glitch..."
Trying to find cause. If one succeeds in finding a cause, even if its only in their mind, they put themselves back in the 'normal' world. Some prefer this, its a form of control. Logic gives us a sense of control, again from childhood and it was our child mind that embraced it, so embraced it from the magical resonance of child-like wonder.
The trick is to just switch that wonder and to also know that sorcery is not about locating the cause, the cause is somewhat always a mystery. In fact the world was forever this way we just forgot...the wonder. For example, if you put a seed in soil and water it, it can grow into a tree. But we don't know how. We cannot make our own seed, imbue it with life force, the life force ..force...is a mystery. But it can be harnessed.
A sorcerer can intend something. I imagine a really powerful sorcerer could intend a tree to be in a place there was no tree, and then its just there the next day. It IS possible. But the only way to know this is to experience something along these lines happen. Until it happens, one can easily doubt and deny it. .."the sorcerer is a trickster, snuck in and planted a tree in middle of the night".
The implications of the other possibility overwhelm many. "you mean intent can be a cause(B) with an effect ©?" Just intending something? That means reality is malleable, like clay and we are sculptors in a sense in that we are creatures of intent. What happens is ap shifts. And we knwo there's limitless possibilities in that. (A) is forever the mystery, the unknowable, God.
Some know this about sorcery, believe its real.. but say..."well that's a trap. Sorcery and doing such things becomes obsessions. One gets fixed on controlling reality then for their own means."
Its not like that actually. Some do go to the dark arts. But many of us don't and can't...it would destroy us to go against our destiny. A person destined to be a black magician will be given such opportunity (for a while at least), one without such destiny will not. Many of us are linked to the nagual and thus guided by such intent. Lets say we do use our power against another in a self serving way. We can be harmed back (immediately sometimes) as a result. When power has determined a certain path for us, it will be reinforced as we learn to let go of desire to control for self purpose. So some may say, "then power is like God, overseeing us." I have found this to be true yes, there is an intelligence of some kind that responds to us and our intent. It does not always give us what we want, so we learn to see what it wants for us. This is called following Spirit's indications. We were born into this destiny. Not only is following it imperative, we want to follow such a path as its what our heart wants naturally.
A mystic or a man of knowledge is searching for the "Causless Cause" or "First Cause" as it is sometimes called.
Even if one has no chance of ever finding it, I think was how Don Juan worded it.
Just because one learned to harness sorcery does not automatically mean they then think of their self and what to gain. Often, harnessing sorcery makes one consider how it can be used to liberate from the world here, from anything fixed, which is deeply engrossed in self. Regular man, not sorcerers, are the most selfish. Thats why the rainforest it being ruined, the water and air polluted, animals becoming extinct and then scientists hired to tell everyone its not really happening or its not as bad as it sounds and progress is most important...this is selfishness and worse then any black magic because its done on such a mass level and so many people support it and those who don't are minorities and have less voice as a result.
Sorcery is a way out of this dead end. If one tried to use sorcery to go after oil companies, for example, such a person may see that their harmful intent backfires. Because that is harmful intent. Yes, oil companies cause many ills, but fighting fire with fire has consequences. So one learns to let go of this world. Let go of the good/evil struggle, Bob used the tree of knowledge example..knowledge of good and evil. Step beyond that to tree of life,...possibilities, endless, eternal possibilities. Non-linear, non-logical, real and also useable...our intent can harness it,this freedom, this assembling new position and this new awareness of reality and reality is not fixed by any means, so to be comfortable with this understanding.
A sorcerer is fascinated. Awed by his/her existence. Strives to be free of the cares and concerns that plague common man, free of the mentality that rules common man. A sorcerer can do or be virtually anything, yet many choose to be free. It doesn't happen over night of course, its the result of powers impact in their life. Showing them the only way to not suffer certain consequences is to not invest in selfhood intent. To acquiescence to Spirit, and follow it. To let one be a self for Spirit. Still a self of course...we don't stop living or avoid life, still enjoy it even, more... its just our self is not as it appears.
I see reality as more of a rainbow type of thing. One thing bleeds into another and another gradually. There are many shades of purple between red and blue.
I am not so interested in the bodies or vehicles as I am the awarenesses. -Bob
Agree!A lot of what you are saying here has to do with whether or not to use magic or powers. And what to use them for. These are big questions. Intent has a lot to do with it of course and that is personal. Don Juan used it to instruct Carlos and Jesus used miracles to help people and instruct as did the Apostles after him. So did my teacher.
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Hi Bob!
Yeah logic, I see it as something done, such as at your work, and everywhere all the time. So its not like it serves no function. I think what applies is we see its limitations, then when we use it we knwo why we are using it. For example, if you watch those shows on discovery channel, they got everything figured out. A friend I watch them with gets all excited over the shows waiting for a big break through. I'm watching and see that as long as they follow the perimeters of logic, they will always arrive at a predictable result which requires proof.
I love unusual stuff, Monty Python made people laugh because they did the unexpected and it causes a release and in that release our rebel comes out and says subliminally "I knew it!" and joy is evident. The I knew it is..."I knew there was more to life". See its like most people have these scripts in their head, and they know what to expect all the time, and fellow man usually follows through and delivers that predictable action. Logic is the framework.
Lets say someone gives you a fender bender at a stop light. The guy who did it (yeah we'll make it a guy, lol) gets out of his car, and he expects some basic possible reactions...you will be fuming mad, you will be calm but ready to get his insurance info, you will be hysterical your car was dinged and start crying... something along these lines of reaction. You of course are free to react any way you want. You could tell him the car is not yours, it belongs to the local mofia and let the guy knew to sleep with one eye open from now on. The point is not to toy with him, but rather that logically we only consider a set of options and discard the rest as possibilities. This makes us set in our ways and develop a personality recognizable and predictable, this can take the zest out of life and make one stay rooted due to it logically makes sense even if it makes one unhappy.
So logic in its functional sense is like math...yes, but what many don't see is logic has infiltrated social behavior. It actually does not belong there. Interaction should be spontaneous. We should be reading people each and every time we approach them, get a barometer reading on them every time as if the person is brand new to us. Instead we have scripts to everyone, and unfortunately people often live up to those scripts, reinforcing it a correct approach. But if one encounters a sorcerer, they may be in for a change.
DJ made Carlos very uncomfortable when he didn't behave it the strong, capable way Carlos expected...remember the feeble old man story? See, Carlos thought he knew DJ and had defined him in a very poetic sense..and older sorcerer but nimble as a child, full of energy, exuberant, impeccable...he really went on and on about DJ in the early books. So DJ became Carlos's worst nightmare...an old decrepit, feeble, stupefied ordinary human. Carlos was lost without his logical expectations of his hero Don Juan. The result was the stress pushed him beyond all concern. But we must remember that horrible period before he reached that place. His whole world crumbled to the ground. The world had been supported by logical premises.
Logic is for machines, and for basic order. Too much emphasis must have been given to it by our predecessors and thus we inherited their legacy of logic-worship, but sorcerers easily get beyond this.
A mystic or a man of knowledge is searching for the "Causless Cause" or "First Cause" as it is sometimes called.
Even if one has no chance of ever finding it, I think was how Don Juan worded it.
I see this as meaning we are always seekers, of which I agree.
A lot of what you are saying here has to do with whether or not to use magic or powers. And what to use them for. These are big questions. Intent has a lot to do with it of course and that is personal. Don Juan used it to instruct Carlos and Jesus used miracles to help people and instruct as did the Apostles after him. So did my teacher.I see sorcery as an aid, yes, and a very positive advantage. Such as, through sorcery we can know when someone seeks to harm us. Again, I remember Carlos asking DJ something like "what would you do if someone was waiting for you outside with a gun?" And he replied "I would not go outside" lol, something like that. But one has to know. Kennedy did not know in Dallas someone was waiting for him with a gun. If he had been a sorcerer, maybe he would have known, but then...why even be president then?
Sorcery as a tool, liberates us from those things which bind us...beliefs, expectations, lack of clarity, lack of ability to transform, lack of access to power (God force). We use sorcery to draw power to us, thats how I see it.
One last thing on breaking the mold of logic...
There was this Monty Python sketch I saw recently...as I'm watching them alot these days. And in it it starts out with this prim and proper group all dressed in white suits and summer dresses and frilly hats. British elite, and they are outdoors having tea and then one says, "tennis anyone?" and he waves a tennis racket in the air. And then another guy says "here, catch" and tosses him a tennis ball. But the ball hits his eye and blood starts gushing out. Then a guy gets up to help him and the other guy grabs his arm and it falls off and blood comes gushing out there. Then a guy at the piano is playing a happy tune and the piano top falls on his hands and severs them at the wrist and blood is squirting out all over the place...all the people are becoming dismembered in one way or another. At first I was just watching this like "what???? thats funny?" Then I start laughing, at the absurdity, at the fact it did not deliver anything along any lines of expectations and thats a relief. It shocked me (not drastically so but not what I considered humor), but in being shocked I stopped caring and just appreciated the unusualness in their perception to even come up with that scene.
Its not that sorcerers do not apply logical frameworks too, rather its that they learn to never simply 'borrow' whats given from common man. They use their own seeing to steer by. They are independent of the mass beliefs and highly aware of them and their limitations. They are constant observers. Take nothing for granted, expect nothing prescribed and instead allow inner knowing to guide their every step. Logic simply gives some order.Which is fine and works as long as one can adapt to the ever new. Its true logical perception (in some form) holds worlds in tact, but it should never be seen as the source of the world itself.
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Hi Nu Lang,
We are putting on twice as many people per shift at work. The last couple of days we are trying to get people in and develop a schedule that includes two people on duty 24 hours per day. We may base it on 8 hour shifts, or by mixing 12 and 8 hour shifts in order to get the coverage.
We will need to do a lot of overtime until it's worked out and all the holes are filled.
While discussing how to fill all the holes in the new schedule I said to the district manager, "I might be able to be in two places at once by I don't think I will be able to be in the same place twice."
I said it to be funny.
After I said it I realized that was a perfectly logical answer for a sorcerer. Meaning that a sorcerer can develop a double but cannot come face to face with it.
It was controlled folly. It worked on the manager as it was what I intended, it was witty.
It worked at another level because I was also seriously telling him that we needed more people to make either new schedule work.
I was speaking from two different reference points, only one of which he was aware of.
But here is the important thing to me.
I didn't know what I was saying when I said it. At least not all of the ramifications of what I was saying. It was inspired.
This particular inspiration bridged the gap between what a sorcerer's description is and what an ordinary man's description is.
But the same things happen to me all the time. Especially when I am writing songs or writing on forums.
But many times it is coming from above the sorcerer's description.
It is not me doing it. I am not that smart.
This is the tree of life. This is how it works. Angels (Messengers) ascending and descending upon Jacob's ladder.
This is the Spirit communicating with us.
1co 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1co 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Joh 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
One of my favorite Monty Pythons is the special olympics skit. I know it was very controversial. A group of mentally challenged people are running a cross country race and whenever they come upon anything in their path they either stop and stare at it or run into it and fall down. It is irreverent and unexpected and therefore funny.
But it is also just an exaggeration of "ordinary humans beings." We all run up to the things in life and stop and stare or fall down.
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Indeed.
Reminds me of a quote...
"Life can be pretty serious, but it doesn't mean we have to be."
***
A sorcerer locates the correct words to say, its an act of sorcery to even speak.
One who is not a sorcerer may 'think' about what to say, and thus may have many options. A sorcerer sees the underlying framework,energy of a situation and then chooses to speak or not, but if s/he does speak, the intent reflects what was seen, even if outward words do not immediately reveal, ...other sorcerers can, if they are alert to it, see what is intended and thus glimpse the underlying energy structure as well.
What would that energy structure be? Other people's intent. Our intents make up the world of energy in operation (interactions that determine outcomes), and there is within that the potential for change. Also the potential for stasis, so a sorcerer chooses change.
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Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
When you bring your awareness into the present moment, everything else falls away. When you are fully present, your mind is not preparing responses to what it is hearing while you're listening and feeling. Drop your evaluating and reactive nature. Trust that your heart will have the appropriate response when the time comes. Allow your mind to be quietly responsive, like a pool of water, natural in its unconditional acceptance of the moment. (from www.astrodreamadvisor.com)It is here that we locate our words. Within this silence.
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The special olympics, making fun of it, what a great attack on that taboo, social etiquette!
These Python guys, they got lots of heart. I watched an interview where they poke fun at the death of Python member Graham Chapman, who died of throat cancer in 1989. The interview was in 1998, so it was being said by Robert Klein (who was the interviewer) its unfortunate Graham could not be present. And John Cleese said, "yeah, but he's dead...stone fucking dead." The audience roars with laughter. Later they claim they brought him along...turns out its an urn of his ashes which they place on a table in front of all the seated remaining members. Terry Gilliam, another Python, later 'accidentally' knocks the urn over with his foot as he goes to put his legs up on the table. The ashes fly everywhere on the floor and the members get up and start sweeping it up, putting some back in the urn, putting some under a rug there, and also a guy with a dust buster comes out.
Audience loved it.
The day Chapman died, Both Cleese and Palin where in his hospital room and had to be lead out there were so distraught with grief.
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Nu Lang wrote:The main point I was saying is if one does think power spots are useful, then they should seek them out, which really means to fine tune ones senses to be that of a sorcerer rather then common man. Just want to add here, to be most precise, that I did not go looking for power spots near my house, I just went to explore and it drew me to itself. I just went through the forest (not through paths but really inside it because that is how I felt it) and "stumbled upon" it. This is usually how I find them. I just go and I arrive . I am walking with a searching intent, but not of power spots but for knowledge / experience / learning, connecting with the Spirit and my other self and my self, cannot really say exactly in words, it is a feeling / intent that I have and which helps me to witness lessons and things. I do not think I ever went somewhere with the rational though "now let me go find me a power spot" . though I do go tuned to feeling places and then I can find them. In general, it is all encompassed in my overall intent. I try to be open to whatever the Spirit gives me. Sometimes I do not even need to go far and I learn valuable things. The unknown is just behind the doorstep.
Really love Biblo's quote of being careful about leaving the house. And he was not even aware that one does not even have to do that .
Bilbo wrote:"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
I think this is how it just is, one feels and goes without knowing where, but knows it is the right direction. So one feels the going to get there, not the destination (but one might know there is one). This is an allegory to how we walk in our broader life as well. I am not saying we do not have specific goals, but we have to feel the going.
Nu Lang wrote:But its a shame when people acquainted and initiated in sorcery do this. I understand common man, but a magical being denying his/her own magical nature due to inadequacy...they hinder themselves and then seek to slow others down out of jealousy.If they are sorcerers then they naturally seek out places that they feel are in alignment with them or with the task they are performing at a certain moment (for example trying to see the luminosity of the world). They may not be aware of it that they are doing it, but it makes sense that they are. If their mind is fighting that notion, well bad for them that they do not see it clearly, but they cannot be sorcerers and not have a second sense for these things.
And if they just stay at home and do not venture anywhere, well then they are hikikimoris . One can have a personal spot of power at home, sure, but does not mean one can just forgo the rest of the world .
Nu Lang wrote:I've seen this happen. The skepticism of regular man enters in to a sorcerers view and contaminates it and makes them neither compatible in the sorcerer world nor fitting in with common man, more like no mans land. They use logic to speak sorcery principles...see that combination?...logic, the common mans fare, and sorcery principles. First of all sorcery is about doing first and foremost...getting results and the results verify the nature of reality, and that is that reality is fluid and can shift (ap) so there is no concrete reality as logic man thinks. Now thats an assertion to readers and its so easy to make and it so very easy to state a contrary opinion. So making assertions is easy. But verifying it (experience) is what makes all the difference and its the place where a person is transformed forever. Because no longer will they serve logical means of the ordered universe once they see that order can be rearranged and they can do it.It is natural to reevaluate things from our rational minds. We should make some kind of evaluations from time to time, to see how our life is changing and all that stuff. But well I guess this is what you do with the results you speak about .
Opinions are at fault here, not logic, opinions and preconceptions. If they think power spots are a domain of the old seers it is their opinion and their preconception. Power spots are here for us, even the non sorcerers make use of them without knowing. It is as natural as breathing.
Sometimes I have doubts about some things, like the inorganics (whether to actively seek them out in dreaming or not). Sorcerers would just do it you say, but I am also thinking about it, which makes me feel doubt. This does not help me much. And I see it. So here one suspends judgement and seeks experience. To make up my own mind once and for all. My dream self reacts naturally without thinking and does not engage them, or avoids them by running for example (but I do not feel fear while doing so). I have to now figure out where this doubt of my decision is coming from and I am inclined to think it is from understanding what DJ said. If my experience up to now was sufficient, or so I hope, I would have no doubts. This however is not that sure with me, because I am such a person that I examine my decisions. And I very well look at things through the eyes of others and if I am not very firm in my decisions they become more loosened as just happened to me with the inorganics. But what to do for me is not just a matter of logic. I decide based on other cues as well. However, I am aware sometimes that my thinking burdens me. I then try to silence myself. I also seek advise in the other realms, sometimes I seek advise in this realm, but I do not know why I generally do not have much luck on that front . I am just left to my own devices to figure out stuff on my own.
Nu Lang wrote:A common question in some sorcery circles seems to be... why do it...isn't there more important things to do that practice the old ways? I put inorganics on the side and did other stuff, which were crucial to do, yes, but then after some tying up is done one comes back to that what one left on the side.
Nu Lang wrote:Its amazing what we can do when we just believe we can do it. Being open to power. Being open means being empty of all the stuff common man carries around that would cloud everything and make the world appear as such and such and so and so. this truly is among the most amazing things . I would repeat my signature here, but it will repeat itself at the end of my post .
Nu Lang wrote:For sorcerers/seers, locating a power spot is a very practical act. Its not way out there new age mumbo jumbo, but if one thinks that way, so shall it be, and nothing you can tell them to change their mind. Unfortunately they become like common man, even if they consider themselves apart from the masses, they are taking on that mass skepticism that keeps man prisoner in this rational conventional trap that is non-magical in its approach and uses logical means to interpret the world and thus activation of thinking process rather than feeling/sensing. A sorcerer uses feeling/senses and extrasensory at that to locate things outside the norm such as power spots...thats only one aspect.Actually common man might be better to talk to, because he might have sound common sense and might be that he was really just ignorant and once we talk to that common sense it will all be good. In contrast to partially “educated” people (for example sorcerers you talk about) who might not have such a clean slate and might have a lot more preconceptions. Shamanism /sorcery is very practical, so all it takes is a bit open mind and common sense..
So, if we talk to such a common man it mostly depends on what we say. Even the common man will agree that there are places where one feels better and where one feels worse. For example cities, sometimes we do not feel so well somewhere, most commonly we say we do not like it. People will agree on this. Well then we just shift this to a more broad / sorceric concept. We say that it is possible to be aware of this and distinguish which place is better for us and which is bad for us (without having to spend a lot of time there, or even go in). And of course who would want to stay in places that are bad for us when we can be in places that are good for us. Sometimes people get depressed just because of the place they live in. And in good places we can heal faster. People understand, those who have lived and experienced a bit, that sometimes they just feel good or bad somewhere for no good reason . And well we will say, this is what I am talking about, it is only that we were never taught to be aware of this. It is a very practical art. And they will have to agree XD, well but even if they do not, they will not disagree and that is crucial as well .
More things can be said on the subject, but we need to take care to serve them on the right platter. Some people would call it manipulation. I do not. I just call it talking to the person, translating stuff into a form that he/she understands. The person can still choose to forget about this piece of info.
Not scare common people with fancy sorceric terms for example is a start. Just make it all about life and being practical. If you start off with: “You know there are these places called power spots..” It gives quite a different feeling and setting for the conversation than if you start of with “I was at this park the other day and started feeling really sick to my stomach.” One has to choose words depending on whom we are talking to. But still have it be coming from us.
And sometimes we say something and it is as if we never said anything. That might be the flyer at work… I know for myself how it is when we are closed off. It happened to me already that I did not hear what somebody told me (but not because I was tired or something).
A person is talking and I am on board and then there is just this flash (but not visual) and I am finding myself already after something had been said. I literally do not have a memory of what the person just said. Generally people just don't notice it, I think I am already lucky to be aware of this happening. I think DJ said somewhere that is the foreign installation or flyer (not sure which). I am like wtf is this... I just blacked out… This means war! If a pacifist goes of to war then I am sure it is for a good reason.
Now that I think of it however, it might also happen when we switch attention. So in speech like this I cannot differentiate which is which. Or maybe these two are not that far from each other. Maybe it is the flyer that makes us forget things from the other attention.
So this is thinking at work, to know one cannot just think about it. But thinking gave me a start here, next come actions, looking at it from a different avenue than that of thinking. It is not always bad to think out loud, even if one is aware that the thoughts might not be correct. One just needs to be aware of what one is doing. Which stuff comes from where. And indicate it in speech.
Oh, and sometimes when one does this one realizes that something was said of the nature that Bob just put to the forefront of our attention. I love it when that happens, makes me feel happy . Makes something fall into place. Thinking can also be part of a creative process.
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Bob May wrote:The normal man lives his life within the triangle of Malkuth, Hod and Netsach.
The sorcerer, within the area covered by Yesod, Hod, Netsach and Malkuth.
The man of knowledge or mystic tries to live in Tipareth which has access through the paths (awarenesses) to the entire tree.
Just outside of a normal man's worldview or descrition of this world (Malkuth) is the viewpoint of someone who has experienced something of the paranormal (Yesod) we could call that the astral world. Both the normal man's world view or description and the sorcerer's worldview and description are self reflective. We interpret them from past experience.
When you touch on the Sphere of Tipareth there is a direct path that leads to Chokmah across the Abyss of Daath. Here there is no need of interpretation. You just know something you did not know before. This is what I call a Spiritual experience.
An example would be that normal men look at another person and sees a physical body and can ascertain a lot about that other person by body language and age and the expression on their face.
A person operating from the second point of view might see them as an egg of energy or as a body surrounded by layers of light or auras. which they may or may not be able to interpret.
A person operating from the next level will be able to look at the other person and know what they are thinking, know whether or not they are lying and know when they are lying to themselves or just to you. So that both their general character and their momentary thoughts are layed bare at a level that even the person being observed
doesn't know about themselves. Also the person does not look at all like a human being.
This actually makes a lot of sense, thanks . I also resonate with what you said about Spiritual experience.
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Joined: Feb 2019
Nu Lang wrote:You are right, common man is not concerned with power spots and if you were to talk to a person about it, they may laugh in your face, call you crazy, get scared, etc.
When I stared talking to my "normal friends" about some of this stuff, they, not a single one, made fun of me. They would just shut up and listen (ask a question or two). The atmosphere shifts into attention, I feel them listening (I feel sometimes that something in them is listening more than usually, the part that is often just off, and that another part is sometimes unsure, insecure, losing ground a bit). Then they go back into their worlds (sometimes it is like a big contrast, we finish this topic and there is like a split and they reach and try to bring the continuity of the usual back and for a few seconds there is silence till they switch), but the interest/attention has been there for that moment. Other times it fluidly merges with another normal topic (but I still feel the split happening, like something breathes out, as if in relief, when it reaches common ground). It is interesting. It is very rare of course that something like this happens, because I am not the one to open such subjects on my own. But if somebody asks then I answer - I do not believe in keeping secrets/knowledge to myself. Everyone deserves a chance.
I think the key to having people listen to you is to talk about such stuff only when you feel it is coming from them, either curiosity (but not the most shallow one, the one where the mind is just seeking stuff to babble about) or deeper interest, both are fine, but one needs to kind of regulate what one says. What exactly and how much, not to talk too much. Just the right amount. It is not a matter of controlling anything though, apart from our own selves, our perception of what is going on. We need to be fully tuned in. It is also most important to be aware of a certain margin in all things. When the cup is full so to speak (when the spirit is out of the speech, when something changes) then not to keep pouring into it afterwards, to feel when this moment is passing and changing into something else and respect that (I sometimes find it harder to do /see this in a discussion forum, because it is not a real time discussion, the time and space are different here, different pace).
Hence we need to take care of how we interact with people, but in no way am I saying that we should indulge weakness. We should just see it and work with it, or around it, if possible. Sometimes there is some form of love involved. Love for the Spirit, love for the spirit of the other, even if the person is not close to us (or even if we don't want anything to do with the person). Or love for our own selves, that we can open doors for other people if we allow ourselves to. We allow ourselves to be used / of use to something beyond us. And we can serve this purpose in extraordinary ways. Someone can see us on the bus and the person's life is changed by it (we might not even notice). The world is magical and we are magical beings.
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