Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
People talk about finding our true selves all the time. Well, the other side of the coin is finding the false self. If you can identify and delete your false self what's left must be your true self.
To find your false self, just be phony. Imagine forcing yourself to smile at someone you find annoying as all get out and who would be the last person you would want to see yet for some reason you are required to be nice to them. Imagine telling them how nice it is to see them from behind clenched teeth, desperately trying to appear sincere. Recognize this feeling. Now, whenever you notice you start feeling like that, (usually it will be a lesser degree so you must pay attention), ask yourself why you feel phony. Are you doing/saying what you actually feel or are you trying to impress people, follow some social code, meet some obligation, etc.? More importantly, if it weren't for that fake need to impress, that false obligation, or whatever what would you be doing?
If you're putting on a mask, you're not being real. Those who only like you when you wear masks don't like the real you, only the phony one you show them that they want to see.
This holiday season is a perfect time to explore the false self. Think about it while you're out buying christmas gifts or if you go to gatherings you'd prefer to skip, and stay at longer than you actually want to. If there were nothing to lose, if you had the courage to act as your true self, what would you be doing?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
This practice seems like it would be good to help fight the increased capacity one has to indulge when one's energies are pulled back from other things. The desire to indulge comes from the false self and will be recognized as such. Also, while the ability to indulge increases the enjoyment of doing so drops. One becomes sensitive to the false nature of it, and a similar displeasure as one feels when putting on a phony, friendly face towards one they particularly do not wish to talk to will be noticed whenever one begins to indulge. It's why, (assuming Jed McKenna is correct about the real meaning of Moby Dick), Captain Ahab could no longer enjoy his pipe.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I've thought about this for years, and I think "true self"/"higher self", "false self"/"lower self", is imprecise. You might as well say good self and bad self.
I think "transcendental ego" and "empirical ego" are more precise. The transcendental ego is the absolute subjective self prior to and implied by all experiences, and the empirical ego is the EXPERIENCED you. You as object. What other people see when they look at you, but also the name on your drivers license. Your voting record, your criminal record, your resume.
Another way of saying it is being-in-itself (pure being) and being-for-itself (the being that wants and makes decisions, etc.)
...
Actually "le regard", "the look", is a philosophical term that means the experience of realizing that you are not just SEEING (with your true self), you are also VISIBLE (???).
note: full disclosure I think it USUALLY means how men look at women. It got picked up by feminism obviously, but the existentialist connotations are earlier.
...
Wait, sorry, what is the real meaning of Moby Dick?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Actually "le regard", "the look", is a philosophical term that means the experience of realizing that you are not just SEEING (with your true self), you are also VISIBLE (???).
note: full disclosure I think it USUALLY means how men look at women. It got picked up by feminism obviously, but the existentialist connotations are earlier.
...
Wait, sorry, what is the real meaning of Moby Dick?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Wait, sorry, what is the real meaning of Moby Dick?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Le_Regard wrote:
I've thought about this for years, and I think "true self"/"higher self", "false self"/"lower self", is imprecise. You might as well say good self and bad self.
I think "transcendental ego" and "empirical ego" are more precise. The transcendental ego is the absolute subjective self prior to and implied by all experiences, and the empirical ego is the EXPERIENCED you. You as object. What other people see when they look at you, but also the name on your drivers license. Your voting record, your criminal record, your resume.
Another way of saying it is being-in-itself (pure being) and being-for-itself (the being that wants and makes decisions, etc.)
...
Actually "le regard", "the look", is a philosophical term that means the experience of realizing that you are not just SEEING (with your true self), you are also VISIBLE (???).
note: full disclosure I think it USUALLY means how men look at women. It got picked up by feminism obviously, but the existentialist connotations are earlier.
...
Wait, sorry, what is the real meaning of Moby Dick?
True and false self works, because one is real and the other is not. When you're acting "phony" you're showing an expectation or some such thing, you're not acting from your real self. This is the case even if others are not around to witness it, or if you're acting from the false self in a different dream realm.
As to Moby Dick, the real meaning is even when you've got a whale of an appetite, sometimes it's best to just settle for a fillet-o-fish.
Jed on the other hand thinks it's some sort of metaphor for enlightenment, or "truth realization" as he likes to call it. That Ahab was trying to break through all illusion in the form of the white whale to get to truth and that he needed sacrifice everything to do so.
To be fair, Jed probably has spent more time considering this than I have. He explains it in "Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment" bit by bit over the majority of the book. Although I'm teasing it a bit, I would recommend that book pretty highly.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Julio Juliopolis wrote:
True and false self works, because one is real and the other is not. When you're acting "phony" you're showing an expectation or some such thing, you're not acting from your real self. This is the case even if others are not around to witness it, or if you're acting from the false self in a different dream realm.
As to Moby Dick, the real meaning is even when you've got a whale of an appetite, sometimes it's best to just settle for a fillet-o-fish.
Jed on the other hand thinks it's some sort of metaphor for enlightenment, or "truth realization" as he likes to call it. That Ahab was trying to break through all illusion in the form of the white whale to get to truth and that he needed sacrifice everything to do so.
To be fair, Jed probably has spent more time considering this than I have. He explains it in "Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment" bit by bit over the majority of the book. Although I'm teasing it a bit, I would recommend that book pretty highly.
lol I can't believe you think it's as simple as "one is real, the other is not real". Real and fake is moralizing. People act "otherwise than their innermost selves" in the world for a lot of reasons. One of many reasons is because someone else is forcing you to.
Sometimes I'll be in a restaurant and I'll catch the waiters acting a little "too much like waiters", you know? They're faking it, for the tips, obviously? But they actually ARE waiters.
...
Oh, the other day at this sandwich shop this college kid was like, GROVELING at me. He thought it was "good customer service" or something, I don't know, but it was driving me crazy. I used to love that place but I can't go back there if the sandwich guy insists on ACTING LIKE a sandwich guy like that.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Oh, the other day at this sandwich shop this college kid was like, GROVELING at me. He thought it was "good customer service" or something, I don't know, but it was driving me crazy. I used to love that place but I can't go back there if the sandwich guy insists on ACTING LIKE a sandwich guy like that.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Le_Regard wrote:
Julio Juliopolis wrote:
True and false self works, because one is real and the other is not. When you're acting "phony" you're showing an expectation or some such thing, you're not acting from your real self. This is the case even if others are not around to witness it, or if you're acting from the false self in a different dream realm.
As to Moby Dick, the real meaning is even when you've got a whale of an appetite, sometimes it's best to just settle for a fillet-o-fish.
Jed on the other hand thinks it's some sort of metaphor for enlightenment, or "truth realization" as he likes to call it. That Ahab was trying to break through all illusion in the form of the white whale to get to truth and that he needed sacrifice everything to do so.
To be fair, Jed probably has spent more time considering this than I have. He explains it in "Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment" bit by bit over the majority of the book. Although I'm teasing it a bit, I would recommend that book pretty highly.
lol I can't believe you think it's as simple as "one is real, the other is not real". Real and fake is moralizing. People act "otherwise than their innermost selves" in the world for a lot of reasons. One of many reasons is because someone else is forcing you to.
Sometimes I'll be in a restaurant and I'll catch the waiters acting a little "too much like waiters", you know? They're faking it, for the tips, obviously? But they actually ARE waiters.
...
Oh, the other day at this sandwich shop this college kid was like, GROVELING at me. He thought it was "good customer service" or something, I don't know, but it was driving me crazy. I used to love that place but I can't go back there if the sandwich guy insists on ACTING LIKE a sandwich guy like that.
The examples you give seem to prove my point. Wouldn't you say those over-eager waiters and sandwich artisans are acting fake? Doesn't that seem to describe their behavior more succinctly than saying they are acting "too much from their empirical egos for my taste"? I don't imagine too many people would understand that without further explanation.
It isn't about moralizing either. I'm making no judgements about whether a person chooses to operate from their fake or real self here. This thread is only meant to help those who are trying to find their true selves, by suggesting a means to identify the false self. If someone is happy operating from their false self then I take no issue with them choosing to do so. If they want to connect with their true self, this technique might help them.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Julio Juliopolis wrote:Le_Regard wrote:
lol I can't believe you think it's as simple as "one is real, the other is not real". Real and fake is moralizing. People act "otherwise than their innermost selves" in the world for a lot of reasons. One of many reasons is because someone else is forcing you to.
Sometimes I'll be in a restaurant and I'll catch the waiters acting a little "too much like waiters", you know? They're faking it, for the tips, obviously? But they actually ARE waiters.
...
Oh, the other day at this sandwich shop this college kid was like, GROVELING at me. He thought it was "good customer service" or something, I don't know, but it was driving me crazy. I used to love that place but I can't go back there if the sandwich guy insists on ACTING LIKE a sandwich guy like that.
The examples you give seem to prove my point. Wouldn't you say those over-eager waiters and sandwich artisans are acting fake? Doesn't that seem to describe their behavior more succinctly than saying they are acting "too much from their empirical egos for my taste"? I don't imagine too many people would understand that without further explanation.
It isn't about moralizing either. I'm making no judgements about whether a person chooses to operate from their fake or real self here. This thread is only meant to help those who are trying to find their true selves, by suggesting a means to identify the false self. If someone is happy operating from their false self then I take no issue with them choosing to do so. If they want to connect with their true self, this technique might help them.
I give up then.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
 This is a great practice. I mean, what a perpetual relief (and joy) it would be to simply walk and talk just being myself (true self) all day long, day after day, for the rest of my life? My god, think of the sheer gobs of energy it would save.....mountains and mountains of it!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
glance left wrote:
This is a great practice. I mean, what a perpetual relief (and joy) it would be to simply walk and talk just being myself (true self) all day long, day after day, for the rest of my life? My god, think of the sheer gobs of energy it would save.....mountains and mountains of it!
I think it would maybe only save gobs of energy because you would be nothing and do nothing and nothing would happen 
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
glance left wrote:
This is a great practice. I mean, what a perpetual relief (and joy) it would be to simply walk and talk just being myself (true self) all day long, day after day, for the rest of my life? My god, think of the sheer gobs of energy it would save.....mountains and mountains of it!
And all of it previously just wasted anyway!
I'm also fairly excited to evolve more into my true self. Some of the things I do from my false self are truly idiotic. For example, going into a gas station to use the restroom, then feeling like I've got some obligation to buy something because I did even though no one has said as much... then buying a candy bar, then later eating the candy bar when I don't want it just because I don't want the money I spent on it to be wasted... xD
On the other hand, some of the impulses I get from my true self are fun. At work one of my coworkers was asked if he could park around back because of some hip pain he's got that makes it hard for him to walk far. I said that was nothing, and that I only have one leg. The manager guy we were talking too leaned over the table to check and I called out "Ha! He looked!" xD.... a totally stupid joke, one that we used to do in Junior high I think, but I felt inspired to tell it and it kinda seemed hilarious at the time. Either others thought so as well or my own laughter was contagious because it cracked everyone up. As I saw on a t-shirt recently I don't think before I speak because I like surprises. 
Le_Regard wrote:I think it would maybe only save gobs of energy because you would be nothing and do nothing and nothing would happen
Better to waste that energy arguing with you online? I don't buy that "you would be nothing" if you were just your true self, but you believe what you like.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Julio Juliopolis wrote:
Better to waste that energy arguing with you online? I don't buy that "you would be nothing" if you were just your true self, but you believe what you like.
I already told you, I gave up on you. Best of luck being your "true self" in "the real world".
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Julio Juliopolis wrote:
Better to waste that energy arguing with you online? I don't buy that "you would be nothing" if you were just your true self, but you believe what you like.
I don't see why it's hard to believe. If you're skeptical, keep cutting away at the layers of "fake self" and see how much you're left with.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Julio Juliopolis wrote:
glance left wrote:
This is a great practice. I mean, what a perpetual relief (and joy) it would be to simply walk and talk just being myself (true self) all day long, day after day, for the rest of my life? My god, think of the sheer gobs of energy it would save.....mountains and mountains of it!
And all of it previously just wasted anyway!
I'm also fairly excited to evolve more into my true self. Some of the things I do from my false self are truly idiotic. For example, going into a gas station to use the restroom, then feeling like I've got some obligation to buy something because I did even though no one has said as much... then buying a candy bar, then later eating the candy bar when I don't want it just because I don't want the money I spent on it to be wasted... xD
On the other hand, some of the impulses I get from my true self are fun. At work one of my coworkers was asked if he could park around back because of some hip pain he's got that makes it hard for him to walk far. I said that was nothing, and that I only have one leg. The manager guy we were talking too leaned over the table to check and I called out "Ha! He looked!" xD.... a totally stupid joke, one that we used to do in Junior high I think, but I felt inspired to tell it and it kinda seemed hilarious at the time. Either others thought so as well or my own laughter was contagious because it cracked everyone up. As I saw on a t-shirt recently I don't think before I speak because I like surprises.
Le_Regard wrote:I think it would maybe only save gobs of energy because you would be nothing and do nothing and nothing would happen
Better to waste that energy arguing with you online? I don't buy that "you would be nothing" if you were just your true self, but you believe what you like.
"I like surprises"
Me too. And, the laughter that arises amidst impulses from the true self are unmistakable, I agree. It seemed the others around recognized the signature...and that to me is a very intriguing. Impulses from the true self are contagious!
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Le_Regard wrote:
glance left wrote:
This is a great practice. I mean, what a perpetual relief (and joy) it would be to simply walk and talk just being myself (true self) all day long, day after day, for the rest of my life? My god, think of the sheer gobs of energy it would save.....mountains and mountains of it!
I think it would maybe only save gobs of energy because you would be nothing and do nothing and nothing would happen
Nah, I don't think so. That's only a manner of speaking because that which is done is nothing more important than anything else that is done, so can't be considered distinguishing by comparison. Doing is all there is, in that respect.....and it is constant and unobstructed. A notion which would be intolerable, I'm guessing, from the perspective of the incurably self-indulgent. I mean, how can you get your name in lights.......if its all lights, everywhere, all the time?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
glance left wrote:Julio Juliopolis wrote:
And all of it previously just wasted anyway!
I'm also fairly excited to evolve more into my true self. Some of the things I do from my false self are truly idiotic. For example, going into a gas station to use the restroom, then feeling like I've got some obligation to buy something because I did even though no one has said as much... then buying a candy bar, then later eating the candy bar when I don't want it just because I don't want the money I spent on it to be wasted... xD
On the other hand, some of the impulses I get from my true self are fun. At work one of my coworkers was asked if he could park around back because of some hip pain he's got that makes it hard for him to walk far. I said that was nothing, and that I only have one leg. The manager guy we were talking too leaned over the table to check and I called out "Ha! He looked!" xD.... a totally stupid joke, one that we used to do in Junior high I think, but I felt inspired to tell it and it kinda seemed hilarious at the time. Either others thought so as well or my own laughter was contagious because it cracked everyone up. As I saw on a t-shirt recently I don't think before I speak because I like surprises.
Better to waste that energy arguing with you online? I don't buy that "you would be nothing" if you were just your true self, but you believe what you like.
"I like surprises"
Me too. And, the laughter that arises amidst impulses from the true self are unmistakable, I agree. It seemed the others around recognized the signature...and that to me is a very intriguing. Impulses from the true self are contagious! Which self dies?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
The one attached to the worm feeding form, six feet under
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Although I guess it can linger on for awhile, lurching around....depending on the intensity and sustain of that attachment.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
glance left wrote:The one attached to the worm feeding form, six feet under
It's a serious question. Is that the measurement of "real" and "fake"? It just looks like it reproduces "eternal" and "impermanent" or "alive" and "dead".
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
glance left wrote:The one attached to the worm feeding form, six feet under
There's a tantric practice where you imagine yourself (or literally do it, I guess, depending on how advanced you are) cutting yourself into bloody bits and offering the pieces of your body and mind one by one as a fire sacrifice. I'm not imagining this being any different.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I'm just saying, I couldn't make these things up.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Probably you just mean like, coming out of the closet, right?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
|
