Nagual

[Finwe]

Nagual is beyond and in the first place infront of anything in the sense of actual potential, therein in the adverse of known, in the source of it's origin, where everything has it's place in utter chaos. The vision literally in means of it's real-time direct impact, as a perception, unlimitens through moment as it's realisation. Nagual is not the "Beyond", is not the world where we go after death, in nagual means of life and death waver in equanimity to unexpectable lenghts of unawaited looks in impossible ways, proving nothing more than own indescribability and parity of all chances as the angles, have one measuring unit, that itself has no value, as its purpose is to transfer the values indeferently and right, without negatory elements, that only curve it otherway. The Tonal is constructed from within this principe, that the nagual otherwisely embody without constriction, boundaries or agreements on the level of perception as totality and parallel, exact catalyst to all that is standing on the other side of it, unknown in its own knowing, that in one point in all knowings, there is none in them all, unmovable by mind and the structure of knowledge, nagual has none, that is what makes nagual eternal mystery, unknown darkness and tonal the single flame lit out of there, nowhere where the wonder begun and where all in awe ends, wherein death therefore has no place as it serves life.

[Billy]

Yes.  Reverance.  I am only receiving. Okay? AND Thank you!

[Billy]

Finwe wrote:Nagual is beyond and in the first place infront of anything in the sense of actual potential, therein in the adverse of known, in the source of it's origin, where everything has it's place in utter chaos. The vision literally in means of it's real-time direct impact, as a perception, unlimitens through moment as it's realisation. Nagual is not the "Beyond", is not the world where we go after death, in nagual means of life and death waver in equanimity to unexpectable lenghts of unawaited looks in impossible ways, proving nothing more than own indescribability and parity of all chances as the angles, have one measuring unit, that itself has no value, as its purpose is to transfer the values indeferently and right, without negatory elements, that only curve it otherway. The Tonal is constructed from within this principe, that the nagual otherwisely embody without constriction, boundaries or agreements on the level of perception as totality and parallel, exact catalyst to all that is standing on the other side of it, unknown in its own knowing, that in one point in all knowings, there is none in them all, unmovable by mind and the structure of knowledge, nagual has none, that is what makes nagual eternal mystery, unknown darkness and tonal the single flame lit out of there, nowhere where the wonder begun and where all in awe ends, wherein death therefore has no place as it serves life.
 
           Is this your own Finwe?

[Billy]

Of course you did!!!            ~~~  !!!

[Oculus]

Definitely information dense what you posted Finwe.  Also the Nagual has its own independent time track and knows things starting at their ending and moving towards their beginning, while the Tonal knows things starting at their beginning and moving towards their ending.
The Tonal Sees globally and Dreams locally, while the Nagual Dreams globally and Sees locally.

[Finwe]

Accurate points of seeing Oculus, basically - the moment - seal of third attention is broken the whole attention solicits change while beign same. Being the Opening in any way only of the reason based as intent of the double nature of universe. Way the seal is broken, exists and comes into being with the formation of it's energies, that is the whole dreaming body in sense of all dreams that exists through luminousity wheter physical, astral, solar, pranic, nagual, primary or animal. This is the difference between us, Humans and Inorganic Beings, they are not under any means viable, naturaly, because of their energetic structure, to break it, they roll in themselves, while under same conditions, we burn from within

[Billy]

Finwe wrote:Accurate points of seeing Oculus, basically - the moment - seal of third attention is broken the whole attention solicits change while beign same. Being the Opening in any way only of the reason based as intent of the double nature of universe. Way the seal is broken, exists and comes into being with the formation of it's energies, that is the whole dreaming body in sense of all dreams that exists through luminousity wheter physical, astral, solar, pranic, nagual, primary or animal. This is the difference between us, Humans and Inorganic Beings, they are not under any means viable, naturaly, because of their energetic structure, to break it, they roll in themselves, while under same conditions, we burn from within
I understand every word here conceptually; and you infer you have broken from the dreaming so as to roll within if you are an IOB, or burn within as a human after reaching the third attention.  Are you an IOB Finwe?

If you have burned within, is it that you intended 'self ' to return to bodily form?  If so, please elucidate that.

If neither,  are you projecting only conceptually as learned in another attention?  That is you SEE this?  Are you ever in the dreaming body?  Why, as serloco poses, do you persist in your bent towards favoring nothing as death, rather than nothing as creative form.  That is, serloco sees both sides as equally intrinsic and essential.  You did not.  Why? 

   I compliment you for your articulation, but question your veracity in either knowing the truth or/and telling the truth. 
I am smiling and not abound with any vitriol.

[Finwe]

I am halfly organic and inorganic as every sorcerer is and yes I have burned from within you can even read about it, in the books.
And yes I have intended to reincarnate once again, merging with the sorcerer, of which this body is. I have done that, because it is either way my destiny and only way to become what I truly am and intend. For me creative force is life, nothing is nothing, everything is everything, death is death. I persist on nothing but its easier and the more you are egomaniac to have someone else or something for wrong instead of seeing what actually you, yourself do wrong - protect yourself from infinity, instead embracing it, by which act it embraces you.

"Everything is matter energy without exception or any other rule." Simply you do have enough personal power or not, any more delicate issue, one can have is a mere intellectualisation and self-deluding tool of own egomania, perhaps a shadow or flyer if sorcery and every slightest fragment of perception is not a joke, yet matter of life and death. There is a name for sorcery without sobriety and that is trash and if what you do or have reality for does not propels you forward, you are not honest to yourself, nothing can stop infinity.

[Finwe]

Forgot to add...
That first I like any sorcerer was inorganic being and had to roll within by which I gained physical body and became human being, reaching third attention.

[Billy]

Finwe, I thank you, and hereby also for future respondence.

[Oculus]

Finwe and billy, from this side, the Tonal, everything is moving in the same general direction in time, and thus we witness it as being here and observable depending on the angle of the Time Tracks.  When we witness the Nagual we see it as nothing and yet it is everything else moving through time perpendicular to the Tonal time track.  Things who's time tracks have a projectiion onto the Tonal time track show up in the Tonal while the perpendicular time tracks do not.  The inorganic time tracks move opposite to the organic time tracks and that is why they are here but we can't view them like we view ourselves.  Understanding how to orient our internal time tracks to one another from inside the assemblage point would be quite remarkable.  We only witness the Tonal because we hold both time tracks parralell and going in the same direction and that is the basis of the First Attention. 
When both time tracks are paralell but going in oposite directions we have the Second Attention.  If we rotate a time track perpendicular to the other one, we would become the Cross, i.e.  Third Attention.

[rosygyro]

Oculus wrote:Finwe and billy, from this side, the Tonal, everything is moving in the same general direction in time, and thus we witness it as being here and observable depending on the angle of the Time Tracks.  When we witness the Nagual we see it as nothing and yet it is everything else moving through time perpendicular to the Tonal time track.  Things who's time tracks have a projectiion onto the Tonal time track show up in the Tonal while the perpendicular time tracks do not.  The inorganic time tracks move opposite to the organic time tracks and that is why they are here but we can't view them like we view ourselves.  Understanding how to orient our internal time tracks to one another from inside the assemblage point would be quite remarkable.  We only witness the Tonal because we hold both time tracks parralell and going in the same direction and that is the basis of the First Attention. 
When both time tracks are paralell but going in oposite directions we have the Second Attention.  If we rotate a time track perpendicular to the other one, we would become the Cross, i.e.  Third Attention.I don't know if this help anything but show my own angle on my own leap from the habitual.. but here goes.
1) The eagle is an unimaginable vast source of energy.. emanating from an impossible point percieved by seers as an information overload of sorts. a type of explosion of fibres and also a contraction of fibres compressing the cocoon.
2) the cocoon itself is a representation of the universe encapsulated as microscosm around a living being.
3) Jewel 2 or destiny is the one the only time track.
4) Our physical awarness and physical form although represented in the cocoon as a particular illumination of fibres.. is at its physical corporeal individual heart.. aligned with jewel 2 or destiny. without jewel 2 we are dead.
5) The physical human body is split into different organs and componants,, liver, heart, lungs, limbs, hair, teeth..
6) puberty and secondary growth characteristics happen distinctly along the timeline/spiral track.. and are irreversible junctures in the advancement of an individual corporeal
the bridge of recapitulation through puberty is interesting.
7) the physical organs all have a destiny.. in perfection this destiny is immortality through longevity, or sexually through procreation.
If you imagine each organ, componant of the physical body as an individual path so that  essentially there are perhaps 3000 or so lazer straight potential lines toward the easterly destiny.. we see that in the present as a living being these 3000 fibres must be interrelative as well as FLUID in their relationship to each other during this NANOSECOND.
9)keeping all fibres in line with destiny potential as well as energeticly free of each other is what makes a healthy human.
10) the sexual traits and organs must also align without attatchment- the difference between the sexes and these particular fibre bundeles is what cleaves our earths tonal in two.
11) in order to save from the fear of percieving the infinite our species has developed a culture of over atatchment sexually to the point our species is blinded by the abuses that occur between beings who do not share the same sexual traits.
13) The timeline potential of our organs streams both toward and from perfection.. but also our individual potential and our collective potential carries weight.
14) our species will not survive unless it tackles and eliminates the atatchment within the mass corporeal between the specific streams of sexual function.
15) The inorganic beings are hitching a ride with us. and are in no way dependent apon sorcerers for their evolution in the future.
16) the agreements make with inorganic beings are as skilled as any halfwit who sign a deal or contract they do not understand and have not written the basic of.
17)The relationship between the assemblage point and its illumination  on the microcosmic cocoon.. i/e. universal light.. and the physical body and its destiny alignment i.e. physical launchpad.. are ina  tension in the immpeccable seers.
18) in the sobrietic failures of the path.. it is only the assemblage point position which is sought.. whilst the body although aligning.. does not itself percieve the alignment as subjective.

I RAMBLED A BIT. but you get the feeling.

[Billy]

rosygyro, knowing soberietic failures as imminent on your path, and in view of such vast knowledge and BEYOND (unknowable) is a big reason why you create art.  Is that true?  I mean, the inclination to reduce to a knowable attention, and objectify goes in opposition to your admission that all is happening in a subjective alignment as destiny.

I SEE that perceiving or not perceiving destiny as you have it makes no fucking difference to me.  So respectfully, why do you care enough to expand on it?

I have successes as objective perceptual heights, and then I fail to hold the heights** or have failures as objective perceptual capitulations.      **(I used to fail, but to hold heights, now I relatively do not)

I CHOOSE the perfection of destiny outlined in number 7.  That I am mistaken or inadequate to fulfill perfection should not be an issue.  I intend it, and that counts for nothing or everything.  Yet, why would I care if I am not the mover in 'likes and dislikes' or anything?  I perceive myself.. I AM WHOLE.

You are amazing rosygyro (I am not challenging you with disregard).  You are able to illuminate to where I have empirical satoris.  Few can do that as you do.  I hope you will stay around just as you have been doing.  I hope, I am able to help you, as you are helping me.

   I seldom get value from your doing (words and art) at first; it is usually after many 'open' looks.  When I do find the mark it is very, very rich.  You are an ally.  Thank you.

[Billy]

**(I used to fail, but to hold heights, now I relatively do not) should read ---->  **(I used to fail to hold heights, now I relatively do not)

I saw your reply in 'AP' thread (Modern Nagualism) and it sort of spills into this.  Is having a grasp of complexities a distracting ruse, or is it worthwhile foundation for awareness expansion?  Or, do I look past words, and find a personal thrum?

[rosygyro]

people are so very very selfish. I need to get more ruthless without lapsing in integrity.
a while ago i was having a horrible mad time as i tried to heal the underworld and got answers from the universe.
I notice now that people i have favoured as companions on the path have gradually drifted into unimpeccability.
i went through the bits of mind and emotional hell as a service ..
foolishly to protect people i thought were too fragile to navigate the warriors path, but were in my opinion not negative people.
now they hit their 40s i discover they have become energeticly grabby, selfish people who having never completed their own warriorship only have their own will and greed to support their world view.
I am in the difficult situation of finding that those i saw fit to protect in my altruistic ego have become monsters.

[serloco]

People re so very very mysterious. Oh they act and put on a show. Live for you! They are anything and everything you can imagine. Imagine that you hold the key, the judgement, the awareness of what people are. Awareness right? You understand this power right? It means your awareness of people is what people are. You must e aware that awareness can shift right? Be controlled? SO why the heck are you here dumping on people. Its your inventory, but your tonal... it's bad.

[Billy]

serloco, rosygyro is not at all to me what he seems to be to you.  He has light and lightness that are hidden by words.  SEE past them.

[Billy]

Not only that, but I SEE the gems int he words too.  If that does not work, stick to his art. 



Hi shamanka..    

love-Billy

[serloco]

I remember I had intended the awareness don Juan gave me and seeing that everyone was self-important. I hated it. That, and people are black magicians. Hated that too. Oh yeah reality is cold. Infinity cold. Intent cold and indifferent. You dont have to set everything that way though. Just because you judge people as selfish then, does not mean you need to keep intending the same outcome. Calling people good names is worth the time. A warrior learns to set the stage of the show. In the back puling the strings. Set-up your dream. Your position. Your inventory.

Yes, billy I know rosy has good traits and ideas. But having a bad tonal is having a bad tonal. They focus and bring up mostly the negative qualities or visions. Adding curses to the moment. I can make a killing pan handing and calling people generous. You reap what you sow you know?

[bit shiny]

There is a reason one eyed snakes 'think' they created the world and its called self importance and flatulation.
There is more to the story of course besides reflecting their own lop sided seed , which will fail to regenerate . why don't you try putting forward the idea of awareness whereby every body you meet is enlightened ,save on so much ' educating ' sure bring it back to choice ' hit yourself in head' better yet the whole world radiating forth .
You may have to reach said height to first be able to generate such seed in which case you'll find its a gift and your genius falls short .

Next that present awareness has not been reflected from past sided furrow carried into present as past or attachment , next that the awareness of how already existed and is later playing out as you intersect it.

Next that power as root would be governed by said force extending beyond many worded one failing as God to be intersected by very awareness .

Take hand off dick now dipshit .

[bit shiny]

there was a heavy weight down south

there was one up north

those two in the middle fought a lot

they said he could really bang

ding ding

i know who you are and why you came

i like to poke this turd with a long stick

because it smells so much

says its odorless

its simple and not true
on the roundabout where the roads intersect

you will find me

patiently waiting for you

breathe

its your destiny

i do not hold it against you

you must feel you are a pretender too

or is it seamless?
for you

how you see

i know it seems that way

I'm sorry to break the news

ding ding

din din

come in

[bit shiny]

i never 'really' listen to a word you say anyway

next patience

[Finwe]

Noise makes you unable to listen... to the Reality.

[Finwe]

* Correction of the last reply ;
: Every sorcerer in the first place is inorganic being and after that human matrix organella, that presumes the sorcerer's awareness is dream and that a variable in correspondence to the fashion of the sorcerer's outlook of his/heirs organic energy. The sorcery takes places by direct shifting the human side of sorcerer to the djinn one and in result the spell of the dream of dreams whereas the sorcerers reside in totality of their own doubleness, that the Eagle emmanations and Wheel of time, takes them to, in appliance of will that is rudimentary precondition of the sorcerer's world - the dream, with inner structure, the death allows to exist over the rules of time and space.

[Guest]