Black Magic

[Guest]

Seeing to me is maybe not what it is for others description...to me seeing is seeing whats coming, what's to be said, before its said. knowing before others know, a certain outcome or gain in power...a person interested in creating white magic will use the pre-info to help others see and grow...by stalking. When its later known, that recipient sees...

[seesaw]

Well thanks for sharing your definition of 'seeing'. Yes its appears we use the word very differently. I think i shall stop using the word as i understood it. It makes communication very slippery otherwise.



As for 'white magic', that too is a semantic bag of knots.



I take it your are talking about assisting in spirtual evolution of an individual. If thats the case so brutal actions such as physical torture rape general abuse could be used to achieve the same ends. Surely those actions could also be used as white magic. And who is to say that helping a person bottom out into depression and sickness is not also helping their awareness to grow?

In my understanding when i read of people talking about white magic i usually translate that as 'trying to be nice and kind'.



This is why its good to talk. We can read each others entire belief systems in such simple phrases and understand how they organize their view of the world.



I can take the babel fish out of my ear now.

[Guest]

More like...just assisting spirit. If we all link to it, we are assisted, assist it in return.

[BarefootInTheSand]

Good and bad are concepts and exist only in the minds. The lines are arbitrary...bending to suit the holder and the current context. And what is positive to one is negative to another.



And the hold such mental creations have over us is powerful, perhaps even all-powerful, and not at all easy to break free from...you might think that you have broken free of some pardigmal concept in performing some act of magic only to find yourself trapped by yet another paradigmal concept of black or white magic...and you just about work yourself free of that one and then you fall smack dab into the concept of good and bad. There is no escape...or, there is escape only for the precious few who are willing to put their unbending effort to the relentless task. These precious few, for reference, would not be any of those who worry about titles for what is a title but yet one more concept. The trap is deep for the whole human world...indeed, the whole human experience broad as that may be, is based entirely on these mental creations...and experience happens in the heads rather than in the world...and so deluded are we that this is what each calls "life." Yet, until one is free of the hold of conceptual thinking...free from life inside one's mental creations...one has only ever tasted their mind.







Kaomea wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting theme I've been noticing lately, the concept of black vs white, good vs evil, positive vs negative. Is it really this simple? Can we divide and split sides so equally? Is there really no spectrum in our colorful world?



From the shoplifter who steals so that their child can have an apple for dinner, for the soon to be father who gets a speeding ticket while driving his in-labor wife to the hospital, or for the 18 year old soldier who must either kill or be killed. Where is that fine line that determines who is good and who is bad? Some may say this is karma or their own doing ... which sometimes it is or sometimes isn't. Somethings are lent to chance, what about killing a pedestrian in the crosswalk while we were rushing on our way to work? We shouldn't have been rushing? I don't know if the line in the sand is as clear as the one drawn on the blackboard.



I admit, it would be nice to live in a world where everything were that simple. Where rules offer the final say and it's us vs them. Reminds me of the good ol days where I was chasing down the ice cream truck. Ok, I didn't REALLY chase him down. He was parked so I walked.



Now here is where it gets tricky. Where do those imperfect people fall on the black and white grid? Into the void or limbo? I've done some pretty petty things and I'm sure others have done worse... but they've turned their lives around and are at the exact opposite end of where they were. Reminds me of becoming a better person. If we were all born perfect, there would be no lessons to be learned. So the question is, where is the line?



Black magick is just at the end of the spectrum. Yes, I've decided it's a spectrum. You're either with or against me, like it or not. Haha, just kidding, that would be dualistic wouldn't it. I'm not saying I agree with it or not, everyone has their reasons for practicing whatever it is they practice. For those that do, maybe that's the most efficient way they've learned to work with power. That doesn't make them 'bad' ... possibly ill-guided or not very creative ... but if shown alternative ways, I'm sure there'd be at least a small percentage who would be willing to take a walk on the white side for a brief while. Visa versa. Noone is perfect... well ok, noone LIVING



On a side note, if I had a family history of cancer (which I do in fact), I wouldn't consider it negative thinking if my doctor informs me I have a higher chance of being afflicted with it. I mean, I'm all for the teammate who screams at me, "Kao! Heads up! You're about to get crushed!" I agree though, negative thoughts aren't worth entertaining. In the end, to me it seems like it would be useful to know how to differentiate between black, white, roygbiv, and to possibly erase the line. Lines are meant to be crossed.

[Guest]

Black magic can 'work', especially on superstitious minds, because people believe it. Fear can kill. If you were in a tribe where the head witchdoctor shaman priest-king put a 'curse' on you, and everyone including yourself believed in the 'magic prowess' of this person, then this potentially could affect your personal reality, experience, and inner dialogue to a very severe and debilitating degree. Now in modern society you have the reason of science, so people actually THINK and use logic and invoke the power of Disbelief and Skepticism, which certainly mitigates so-called 'black magic' that is fueled on a persons fear, superstitious beliefs, and ignorance. But that power of reason can go on to disbelieve the existence of God or Spirit Reality, which disconnects you from Intent and the wisdom thereof, because the rejection (disbelief) of higher Spiritual realities and Beings is materialism, spiritual blindness.

[Guest]

Yes, among the multitude of choices we decide our perception by perceiving and reflecting and perceiving and reflecting.... But what guides us?, thats the key. How important is the reflection process? Is there more value in direct perception? If so what guides that? In the reflective one...I would say reflection is primarily the collective AP positions, the known and accepted norms of an era mass held intact/belief.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

What does guide us? Evil spirits? Inner Demons? The wind? We choose everyday what to do. We make our destiny by our self intent. If we allow anything or anyone else to guide us then we are following their intent for us. Reflection is either in the moment or in the past. What happened in the past is gone forever thus it has no meaning, only our sentiments strive to keep the past in the moment.

[Guest]

Yes we are confronted by choices daily, and honestly, I think each day and within each day there can be many guiding influences and not all good. Listening to the body is a good navigational tool. The body will tell you about energy flow, when its there and when its not and this can be very useful. So we guide ourselves, IMO, but within that we have to select from a vastness but at least to be looking to oneself and it can be to choose to trust another or not, but its a personal decision. Again the body is a good instinctual reference point. Learning to understand its messages takes ability, and so not having past baggage will aid this listening /receiving messages process.

[quantumshaman]

Ravenmoon wrote:
Yes we are confronted by choices daily, and honestly, I think each day and within each day there can be many guiding influences and not all good. Listening to the body is a good navigational tool. The body will tell you about energy flow, when its there and when its not and this can be very useful. So we guide ourselves, IMO, but within that we have to select from a vastness but at least to be looking to oneself and it can be to choose to trust another or not, but its a personal decision. Again the body is a good instinctual reference point. Learning to understand its messages takes ability, and so not having past baggage will aid this listening /receiving messages process.I resonated with what someone else said about good and bad being essentially humanform assignations - things we have decided based on preference.  In the big picture, listening to the body can be a tricky prospect, because the body can be every bit as programmed as the mind.  For example, some people feel "sick to their stomach" just at the sight of a spider... or a dog... or just about anything.  Others may feel "rainbow bubble laughter" at the sight of a cottontail... or a rose... or just about anything.  All of these are learned, programmed responses - so the body is not always a reliable yardstick because the things we believe will determine how we feel... and so goes the vicious circle.  Not all spiders are dangerous.  Not all dogs are docile.  So it's important to be always aware not just of WHAT we are feeling, but examining the underlying belief that determines WHY we feel/believe certain things. 
I also wanted to make the observation that this thread is about "black magick", yet it has been my observation that those who worry most about black magick are those who truly don't understand that there really is no such thing.  There is no good or evil, only power.  Power can be used for positive or negative outcomes, but again it becomes important to examine how much our beliefs come into play with regard to what we might consider positive or negative.  In the movie "V for Vendetta", the Natalie Portman character is essentially tortured by "V"... but in the end it was done for positive results... so where is the line drawn?  Is the scorpion evil because he is "ugly" to our perceptions?  Is the poodle good because she is "cute" to our consensual agreements?  I've held a scorpion in my hand without harm, and been bitten by one of those cute poodles, so again... where is good and evil?
In the human mind.  In the human heart.  The blade can be used to kill or to cut away diseased tissue.  It's all in our intent.  So... black magick?  I say it doesn't exist unless one fears it, and through their fear, wills it into being.
Just my 2 cents worth, passing through the neighborhood.

[Guest]

Yes I know what you mean about the body being a tricky thing. I agree with you that, as a storehouse, the body contains all our experiences, such as fear of spiders, and this is why I feel listening to the body takes ability, and the means to do this at greater and greater strides is through release of baggage, and for this I will add, because I did not say in last post, that the mind-body relationship can become an active dynamic. The body can on levels give the mind information and the mind uses the ability of thought to transcend experiences solely. The ability to imagine and conceptualize can alter behavior based on experience and previous processing, and vice verse, experience can alter a concept or view of mind. Basically I say, trust yourself, trust your body's messages, learn from mistakes and change your future by believing you can and will always progress forward in the direction you intend, even if and when new information changes that...you roll with the changes.

[quantumshaman]

BarefootInTheSand Wrote...
______________
Good and bad are concepts and exist only in the minds. The lines are arbitrary...bending to suit the holder and the current context.
...you might think that you have broken free of some pardigmal concept in performing some act of magic only to find yourself trapped by yet another paradigmal concept of black or white magic...
Yet, until one is free of the hold of conceptual thinking...free from life inside one's mental creations...one has only ever tasted their mind.These are the fundamental concepts which I feel are crucial to the warror's path, yet it often seems that whenever they are brought up, there is a sometimes-subtle, sometimes-obvious movement to shift attention away from what is, in the end, the core of the so-called "secret" to spiritual evolution.
As long as the world at large can distract the warrior with talk of other things, these fundamental concepts go ignored, glossed over, swept under the rug.  While talk turns to psychobabble, while ego flares its wings, while we talk of our beliefs and struggle to defend them... the clock is ticking... and those fundamenal elements are still there, waiting to be confronted.
The rest is just window dressing. 
Kudos, Barefoot, for *seeing* what needs to be said.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Nice posts Quatum and Barefoot guy...

[BarefootInTheSand]

Likewise a good point about distractions...you are welcome, and thank you.

quantumshaman wrote:BarefootInTheSand Wrote...
______________
Good and bad are concepts and exist only in the minds. The lines are arbitrary...bending to suit the holder and the current context.
...you might think that you have broken free of some pardigmal concept in performing some act of magic only to find yourself trapped by yet another paradigmal concept of black or white magic...
Yet, until one is free of the hold of conceptual thinking...free from life inside one's mental creations...one has only ever tasted their mind.These are the fundamental concepts which I feel are crucial to the warror's path, yet it often seems that whenever they are brought up, there is a sometimes-subtle, sometimes-obvious movement to shift attention away from what is, in the end, the core of the so-called "secret" to spiritual evolution.
As long as the world at large can distract the warrior with talk of other things, these fundamental concepts go ignored, glossed over, swept under the rug.  While talk turns to psychobabble, while ego flares its wings, while we talk of our beliefs and struggle to defend them... the clock is ticking... and those fundamenal elements are still there, waiting to be confronted.
The rest is just window dressing. 
Kudos, Barefoot, for *seeing* what needs to be said.

[Guest]