Teachers, should they charge?

[Guest]

Are all teachers who charge bad news? Should you run for the hills if a spiritual teacher charges? What is your opinion on this?

[Gonzo]

Run for the hills.

[Jessicar.sorcery]

I've paid, received free, and bartered for the services of a teacher.  In all three cases, I learned from those teachers.  I've also quit paying, felt resentful that I was paying, and paid gladly--three different experiences.  At no time was the payment or non-payment a central issue in the learning process, only a negotiation along the road.
Funny.  One teacher I paid more to than the others and then I quit the services.  In a dream related to that teacher, the amount that was taken from me was $200---and the dream indicated that it had been stolen.  What I thought was ironic was that in daily reality, I paid this teacher the largest amount out of the several teachers I've had but my dream indicated it was only a paltry 200 bucks.  A perceptual shift that indicated to me that the amount I actually paid wasn't of great significance in the whole exchange.   
The bartering arrangement was the best of them.
Money is a medium of exchange---we make of it what we will.

[Nu Lang]

I'm a big believer that naguals/sorcerers/warriors need to interact as equals in every regard. We don't go to a nagual and pay them to give us something. That implies we have nothing to give them but money. The value of interaction is the energy involved (power between them) and the outcomes from such...both benefit on the path..and money is therefore above and beyond the value the nagual receives. This is my view and what I choose. If there are naguals out there who charge and students willing to pay, I say that's their choice, and its not mine so c'est la vie. I don't think its a wise choice but its theirs and thankfully not mine. I think as naguals/sorcerers/warriors we can't afford to quit our day jobs... Unless we win the lottery or have a rich uncle tucked away in a castle somewhere. Also, the day job may serve a valuable function besides just a pay check...it might be a 'keep the ego in check too' I's about to find this out meself...rejoining the workforce soon (may the force be with me?)can't wait...yay

[Jessicar.sorcery]

I'm a big believer that naguals/sorcerers/warriors need to interact as
equals in every regard.
An ideal that may hold out in a belief system but not in reality.  Here's why: when we go to someone to gain something from them that we don't perceive we have, there's already a 'power' differential and 'equality' goes out the window; we want something we don't have and in order to get it, an exchange of 'something' takes place.  Doesn't mean it has to be money (it can be a chicken and a slab of pork) but, unfortunately, those exchanges are not as popular as money lol.

We don't go to a nagual and pay them to give us
something. That implies we have nothing to give them but money. The
value of interaction is the energy involved (power between them) and the
outcomes from such...both benefit on the path..
Yes, we do pay them---even if it is a payment of our attention, time, energy, devotion, etc.--all those 'values of interaction', which includes money.  Money is only one exchange medium.
and money is therefore
above and beyond the value the nagual receives. This is my view and what
I choose.  If there are naguals out there who charge and students
willing to pay, I say that's their choice, and its not mine so c'est la
vie.
In the past, have you paid with money for the services of a teacher?

[Guest]

It's really difficult to say if a teacher should charge or not. Like if someone writes a book it costs money to print it, so it's not feasible to do this for free. Share the knowledge written in a book with others for a nominal fee. I think it is okay. However, when I see teachers charging for expensive retreats in the thousands then I do wonder about the authenticity of a teacher and what they're selling. I guess I believe most knowledge should be free, esp if it's word of mouth. But I don't have a problem with a sale of a book, or a nominal cost for a service.

[alien]

Would you expect to send your kid to a piano teacher and not expect to pay?  What about going to a psychologist?  A doctor?  Lawyer?  Where does this idea come from that says spiritual teachers don't need to pay the bills like everybody else?  If someone asks me a question and I can answer it quickly and succinctly, that's one thing.  But what about when someone wants a teacher to spend hours and days and weeks and months and years instructing them in one thing or another? Is that fair to the teacher OR to the student?

[Nu Lang]

Jessicar wrote:We don't go to a nagual and pay them to give us
something. That implies we have nothing to give them but money. The
value of interaction is the energy involved (power between them) and the
outcomes from such...both benefit on the path..
Yes, we do pay them---even if it is a payment of our attention, time, energy, devotion, etc.--all those 'values of interaction', which includes money.  Money is only one exchange medium.
Yes, I said the same regarding there being an even exchange: "The
value of interaction is the energy involved (power between them) and the
outcomes from such...both benefit on the path" thats the payment from each. Since both pay and both receive, money is above and beyond the balanced arrangement. Money is of the social system, warriors know that the social system is a constructed reality to colonize and expand tonal concerns and endeavors.  Warriors know that between warriors the exchange is energy and awareness. The social system does not recognize these as forms of payment, but the are actually a truer currency then money. Money was 'created' as a representation of value. The world here functions on it and so we must comply. But to those seeking infinity, whats beyond the eagle, we, between us know a different reality.   
and money is therefore
above and beyond the value the nagual receives. This is my view and what
I choose.  If there are naguals out there who charge and students
willing to pay, I say that's their choice, and its not mine so c'est la
vie.
In the past, have you paid with money for the services of a teacher?
Yes, and I am not talking about teachers, I am talking about naguals and warriors, as known in CC terms. If one wants the pursuit of seeking a teacher to help them in tonal endeavors, even spiritual endeavors, I know most out there charge money, so one must pay, its just how it is.
When it comes to a nagual lineages, its different. The value of a lineage is energy. Its not of the tonal. I responded here to a question of charging money, I never said teachers should not charge money, I was very specific about it being naguals/warriors/sorcerers of whom I spoke of, they fall within the topic here but are an exception to the rule that governs teachers due to how they function as a group. And since most who come here are pursuing nagaulism or at least familiar with it, I shared my view on that regarding money.

[Nu Lang]

Alien, the reason is that the business of a nagual is energy, transformation, expansion of awareness...its the same for a warrior. When a nagual helps a warrior, this expands also the nagual's awareness because the warrior helped the nagual....warriors teach too. Their endeavors together are not to further their tonal arrangements, so the unit of currency between them in not money, its awareness, the power that beckoned them both to be together for the exchange.



If you are talking about piano teachers and such, see that my post here originally was not about teachers in general. For them, money is and will always be the exchange and if not money, some other form of material value...in some cases time, but its always going to be related to the here and now, not the unknown, only warriors recognize and value the unknown, and I supposed we could include in this some other spiritual lineages who see that energy governs the universe. But I say with warriors they know this for certain, for its in the teachings of the Toltec lineages passed down, that everything is energy, and seeing and responding to the energy that flows in the universe is a primary act of sorcery of which warriors embark upon. They know their time here is an eye blink, so their aims are set on whats beyond.

[Nu Lang]

datura8 wrote:It's really difficult to say if a teacher should charge or not. Like if someone writes a book it costs money to print it, so it's not feasible to do this for free. Share the knowledge written in a book with others for a nominal fee. I think it is okay. However, when I see teachers charging for expensive retreats in the thousands then I do wonder about the authenticity of a teacher and what they're selling. I guess I believe most knowledge should be free, esp if it's word of mouth. But I don't have a problem with a sale of a book, or a nominal cost for a service.Yes, good point because...like everything there are always shades of grey to consider. Such as not being taken advantage of tonally. So if you are a nagual and you write a book, you don't just hand it out for free. Its money out of your pocket and then soon poeple come knocking on your door asking for more additions because it sold out so you would need to pay more money etc. Carlos wrote books but it was part of his instructions for his lineage and he was the first to do it (among Toltec knowledge). He acted on behalf of his lineage to disseminate information. His situation was unprecedented. 
So, within what I speak of regarding the nihility of money, I speak of lineages specifically. Like what happens here on forums is a mixing and mingling of lineages, we need no monetary currency between us, but we both give and receive our unit of currency...awareness (our seeing) so valuable to the sorcery path. And if a nagual party is formed, I am adamant that a nagual has no business changing members of his party money, because he naturally benefits from their energy and power. So it is this instance I refer to that money has no place in such.

[Jessicar.sorcery]

Yes, and I am not talking about teachers, I am talking about naguals and
warriors, as known in CC terms.
Ah, I see now that you shifted the topic of the thread from teachers to naguals and warriors...
If one wants the pursuit of seeking a
teacher to help them in tonal endeavors, even spiritual endeavors, I
know most out there charge money, so one must pay, its just how it is.
For me, money is energy.  Energy is part of the tonal and the nagual  and because the tonal and the nagual are the same thing anyway, paying a teacher or a nagual with an agreed upon medium of exchange is simply an agreement.  If the agreement is satisfactory then it is continued, when the agreement is no longer satisfactory---for whatever reason---then it is nullified and the focus of energy moves on.
When
it comes to a nagual lineages, its different. The value of a lineage is
energy. Its not of the tonal. I responded here to a question of
charging money, I never said teachers should not charge money, I was
very specific about it being naguals/warriors/sorcerers of whom I spoke
of...
 they fall within the topic here but are an exception to the rule
that governs teachers due to how they function as a group.
What does the last portion of this sentence mean?  What rule that governs teachers?

[Guest]

Jessicar wrote:For me, money is energy.  Energy is part of the tonal and the nagual  and because the tonal and the nagual are the same thing anyway,
paying a teacher or a nagual with an agreed upon medium of exchange is
simply an agreement.  If the agreement is satisfactory then it is
continued, when the agreement is no longer satisfactory---for whatever
reason---then it is nullified and the focus of energy moves on.

I'm with you here Jess.  Money is energy, and it's the agreement (specifically, the intent) that is important.  As always, intent is everything.

[Nu Lang]

Jessicar wrote:Yes, and I am not talking about teachers, I am talking about naguals and
warriors, as known in CC terms.
Ah, I see now that you shifted the topic of the thread from teachers to naguals and warriors...

Naguals and warriors are teachers aren't they? A teacher is a conduit of knowledge. I felt it was important to show that while teachers in general encompass naguals/warriors too, they have a unique consideration that sets them apart. So I was not shifting the topic, as naguals/warriors were naturally within the topic itself. I was just careful to state that all I was discussing pertained only to nagaulism, because, again it is an exception to the rule regarding teaching.
If one wants the pursuit of seeking a
teacher to help them in tonal endeavors, even spiritual endeavors, I
know most out there charge money, so one must pay, its just how it is.
For me, money is energy.  Energy is part of the tonal and the nagual  and because the tonal and the nagual are the same thing anyway, paying a teacher or a nagual with an agreed upon medium of exchange is simply an agreement.  If the agreement is satisfactory then it is continued, when the agreement is no longer satisfactory---for whatever reason---then it is nullified and the focus of energy moves on.

The tonal and nagaul are not the same. The nagual can only be witnessed yet its nothing. We bring the nagual view into the tonal. It changes the tonal for us each individually (our perception), but its not a given, we have to work for/intend it here for ourselves.
When
it comes to a nagual lineages, its different. The value of a lineage is
energy. Its not of the tonal. I responded here to a question of
charging money, I never said teachers should not charge money, I was
very specific about it being naguals/warriors/sorcerers of whom I spoke
of...
 they fall within the topic here but are an exception to the rule
that governs teachers due to how they function as a group.
What does the last portion of this sentence mean?  What rule that governs teachers?
A teacher in the tonal, such as a piano teacher, is not pursuing power as described in Toltec understanding. Warriors are seeking power, which is just another way of saying learning to see. A group of warriors bring their seeing, each as individuals, which is their power, and intent is what drew them together in the first place, so they are energetically compatible at a given point in time and what is extracted from their gathering together are the sorcery lessons to be imparted by Intent. What sets them apart from the rest of the world is they share the same syntax...silent knowledge so are able to receive the lessons according to the individual power (energy available to them) which varies for each person.
The rule of teachers such as a piano teacher is money or some other form of payment related to their profession is what governs their actions, because what they seek is tonal...money to pay rent, a position at a music school, etc. They are not seeking silent knowledge. And I'm referring in this example to piano teachers who are not warriors. If they are warriors, then piano teaching is their day job and means of support, and it could be a passion/joy for them too, yes.
So the bottom line of what I'm saying is, silent knowledge should not have a price on it. Its not of the tonal. It need to stay separate because we are enhanced by our fellow warriors energy and should not charge them since we are receiving directly from them which is their power. 
This was quoted in the forum previously, and I could have just used it as a response, but I think elaborating on things can be useful at times too, hence the above.
Sorcerers have their own rules to abide by, so you don't have to get involved with the rules of non-sorcerers.

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:So the bottom line of what I'm saying is, silent knowledge should not
have a price on it. Its not of the tonal. It need to stay separate
because we are enhanced by our fellow warriors energy and should not
charge them since we are receiving directly from them which is their
power.
So what you are saying, if I have this right, is that since we receive energy as payment, from other warriors,  naguals shouldn't charge a fee?

[Nu Lang]

Its up to the nagual. I wouldn't do it. I know better.

[Jessicar.sorcery]

Nu Lang:
The tonal and nagaul are not the same.
When
I first moved to Hawaii, I moved here to study with a Nagual.  In an
exchange regarding the payment arrangement between us, I was adamant
that a Nagual shouldn't charge.  The Nagual said, "'Money is energy'",
that's all it is; yet, it's an exchange that allows me to give you my
time (i.e. knowledge, seeing, dreaming, etc.)  It took me some sorceric
maturity to understand, to really grok, that money is energy, that's all
it is.
"The
tonal and the nagual are the same".  I didn't accept this one years ago
either.  I wanted the two to be different; setting them apart allowed
me to grapple with them in a way that taught me their differences.  The
reason we (as sorcerers/seers) spend so much time "cleaning" the tonal
is to clear away all of the filters that prevent us from seeing that
they are the same thing.  It's the solidifying of the tonal that causes
it to lose it's nagual sheen in the first place.  So seeing money as
energy cleans it of it's "tonal" reputation.  It's putting it in an
"exchange rate" that we (as sorcerers/seers) can use rather than to
relegate it to a realm that oftentimes suffers as second best compared
to the nagual.

The nagual can only be witnessed
yet its nothing.
As can also be said about the tonal.
We bring the nagual view into the tonal. It changes the
tonal for us each individually (our perception), but its not a given,

we have to work for/intend it here for ourselves.
Yes, the "work" is the journey, to bring the two together so they are no longer banished from each other.

[alien]

Nu Lang wrote:
Alien, the reason is that the business of a nagual is energy, transformation, expansion of awareness...its the same for a warrior. When a nagual helps a warrior, this expands also the nagual's awareness because the warrior helped the nagual....warriors teach too. Their endeavors together are not to further their tonal arrangements, so the unit of currency between them in not money, its awareness, the power that beckoned them both to be together for the exchange.
If you are talking about piano teachers and such, see that my post here originally was not about teachers in general. For them, money is and will always be the exchange and if not money, some other form of material value...in some cases time, but its always going to be related to the here and now, not the unknown, only warriors recognize and value the unknown, and I supposed we could include in this some other spiritual lineages who see that energy governs the universe. But I say with warriors they know this for certain, for its in the teachings of the Toltec lineages passed down, that everything is energy, and seeing and responding to the energy that flows in the universe is a primary act of sorcery of which warriors embark upon. They know their time here is an eye blink, so their aims are set on whats beyond.
Seems like a major double-standard. Warriors and naguals are human beings, first and foremost.  What's the difference between a spiritual teacher and a piano teacher?  Is there really any difference, or just self-importance that makes one think so?  If you want someone's knowledge, what makes you think it is "owed" to you?  Isn't that the definition of SI?  If everything is energy, why is the energy of a nagual less than the energy of a piano teacher?  If we are going to operate under the notion that all things are equal, then all things are equal, no?  I'd really like to get to the bottom of this idea wherein folks seem to think they are entitled.  "Knowledge should be free!"  That's the old war cry, and MAYBE I agree with it in principle.  Sure, knowledge should be free.  But wha about someone else's time and energy?  Does anyone really OWE that to you?

[alien]

Jessicar wrote:
Nu Lang:
The tonal and nagaul are not the same.
When I first moved to Hawaii, I moved here to study with a Nagual.  In an exchange regarding the payment arrangement between us, I was adamant that a Nagual shouldn't charge.  The Nagual said, "'Money is energy'", that's all it is; yet, it's an exchange that allows me to give you my time (i.e. knowledge, seeing, dreaming, etc.)  It took me some sorceric maturity to understand, to really grok, that money is energy, that's all it is.
"The tonal and the nagual are the same".  I didn't accept this one years ago either.  I wanted the two to be different; setting them apart allowed me to grapple with them in a way that taught me their differences.  The reason we (as sorcerers/seers) spend so much time "cleaning" the tonal is to clear away all of the filters that prevent us from seeing that they are the same thing.  It's the solidifying of the tonal that causes it to lose it's nagual sheen in the first place.  So seeing money as energy cleans it of it's "tonal" reputation.  It's putting it in an "exchange rate" that we (as sorcerers/seers) can use rather than to relegate it to a realm that oftentimes suffers as second best compared to the nagual.

The nagual can only be witnessed yet its nothing.
As can also be said about the tonal.
We bring the nagual view into the tonal. It changes the tonal for us each individually (our perception), but its not a given,
we have to work for/intend it here for ourselves.
Yes, the "work" is the journey, to bring the two together so they are no longer banished from each other.

Excellent post, and excellent points re the tonal and the nagual being the same.  "The work is the journey, to bring the two together so they are no longer banished from each other."  Yes.  Emphatically... yes.

[Guest]

One way to look at it is that since the nagual is in everythiing, it is also in all things tonal.

So one of the ways we can witness the nagual is through the tonal.



Hence tonal is nagual.

Simple

[Gonzo]

It seems to me we need a differentiation between types of teachers based upon what is being taught. I think the type of teaching that traditionally has been without fee has been spiritual. That would include churches, which in this country function tax free and depend upon donations. When you go to confession, for example (qualifies as a teaching if taken seriously), the priest is not tipped, nor is there any charge. In none of Castaneda was there mention of a fee. True, CC often brought groceries and things - a donation of sorts. In my own experience of several years with Michael King I never paid him a dime, although I did buy him some beer.



In my opinion, when you encounter someone "selling" spirituality in whatever form (Benny Hinn, Elmer Gantry, the guy in Sedona, Kris Raphael, Lujan, Theun Mares, et al), it's time to run the other way. However, in all fairness, you get what you pay for.

[alien]

Gonzo wrote:
It seems to me we need a differentiation between types of teachers based upon what is being taught.
Aren't you the guy who preaches that all things are equal and the same, that there is no difference between Chuck Manson and Mother Theresaa?  That being the case, you can't have it both ways.

I think the type of teaching that traditionally has been without fee has been spiritual. That would include churches, which in this country function tax free and depend upon donations. When you go to confession, for example (qualifies as a teaching if taken seriously), the priest is not tipped, nor is there any charge.
Perhaps true, but also a sticky wicket if you want to get technical.  Parishoners are all but guilted into tithing 10% of their earnings to the church, so IS it really "free"?  Sure, you can go to mass and confession without making a donation, but if you're honest with yourself, you know perfectly well that such is frowned upon and the parishoner who doesn't tithe is considered a sinner, even if only a "minor" sinner.  LOL.

In none of Castaneda was there mention of a fee. True, CC often brought groceries and things - a donation of sorts.
Remember once again: you're referring to "fictional" characters, in the sense that you cannot REALLY know all the ins and out of what REALLY transpired between CC and DJM... or if, indeed, DJM ever existed in the flesh or was "merely" an extension of CC himself.  Doesn't matter - the core teachings are valid either way - but ultimately we don't live in that world.  You and I live in a world of cell phones, computers and the internet, so the system of barter is somewhat different than for someone living in the middle of nowhere in a shack at the edge of the nagual.  The system of barter for DJM/CC seemed to be groceries, errands, and so forth.  That was what DJM "needed".  A nagual in today's world probably just needs to pay the rent, like everybody else, so the system of barter will be different.

In my own experience of several years with Michael King I never paid him a dime, although I did buy him some beer.
In my opinion, when you encounter someone "selling" spirituality in whatever form (Benny Hinn, Elmer Gantry, the guy in Sedona, Kris Raphael, Lujan, Theun Mares, et al), it's time to run the other way. However, in all fairness, you get what you pay for.
I don't think they are "selling spirituality".  I think they are selling "time", if anything.  Jessica put it very well.  "Money is energy."  All it does is enable the teacher to give you their time, when they would otherwise have to be at work in some suffy office... renting their "time" to Microsoft or Nike or some other corporate sponsor.

[Nu Lang]

Jessica, about the tonal and nagual. Tonal is form. The attention placed upon the tonal can be the one-size fits all mentality, which is the FI, false mind. When one uses this attention to perceive the world, the nagaul is what's missing. Thats why we have average men and warriors. Average men cannot access the nagaul, warriors can. The nagual I agree with you is witnessed here, but the nagual is not the tonal, the nagual is nothing. It changes the perception of the tonal into a magical world.

[Nu Lang]

alien wrote:Nu Lang wrote:
Alien, the reason is that the business of a nagual is energy, transformation, expansion of awareness...its the same for a warrior. When a nagual helps a warrior, this expands also the nagual's awareness because the warrior helped the nagual....warriors teach too. Their endeavors together are not to further their tonal arrangements, so the unit of currency between them in not money, its awareness, the power that beckoned them both to be together for the exchange.
If you are talking about piano teachers and such, see that my post here originally was not about teachers in general. For them, money is and will always be the exchange and if not money, some other form of material value...in some cases time, but its always going to be related to the here and now, not the unknown, only warriors recognize and value the unknown, and I supposed we could include in this some other spiritual lineages who see that energy governs the universe. But I say with warriors they know this for certain, for its in the teachings of the Toltec lineages passed down, that everything is energy, and seeing and responding to the energy that flows in the universe is a primary act of sorcery of which warriors embark upon. They know their time here is an eye blink, so their aims are set on whats beyond.
Seems like a major double-standard. Warriors and naguals are human beings, first and foremost.  What's the difference between a spiritual teacher and a piano teacher?  Is there really any difference, or just self-importance that makes one think so?  If you want someone's knowledge, what makes you think it is "owed" to you?  Isn't that the definition of SI?  If everything is energy, why is the energy of a nagual less than the energy of a piano teacher?  If we are going to operate under the notion that all things are equal, then all things are equal, no?  I'd really like to get to the bottom of this idea wherein folks seem to think they are entitled.  "Knowledge should be free!"  That's the old war cry, and MAYBE I agree with it in principle.  Sure, knowledge should be free.  But wha about someone else's time and energy?  Does anyone really OWE that to you? 
  I think that a nagual should not perceive they have something to offer (and charge for). In truth warriors and nagauls are equal. The nagual is a conduit, but in order to be a conduit, one needs a recipient, without the recipient, there is no need for the nagual. So they are completely equal. Charging money is saying that the nagaul is providing something, but in truth a nagual is just as much provided as they provide. Without a warrior or nagual apprentice to impart knowledge to, they as teachers serve no purpose. Spirit provides both...the teacher and recipient. Spirit is the value and is what makes it all happen. I see it as lack of humility on a nagual's part if they charge the recipient for their time. The nagual should be as grateful just to have the time and awareness of the recipient (and how it enhances they the nagual) as the recipient is grateful to the naguals teaching. 
I do realize tonal concerns are a factor, thats why I say the nagual should accept the tonal for what it is and earn their living in a way that does not interfere with the nagual. And I refer here to the lineage and teachings of Castaneda, Toltec knowledge. This is the area I feel one should not be charging for. If one wants to be a yoga instructor as their day job, or an astrologer or medium, healer...those are all things that can be charged for. But when a nagual encounters a warrior who also has power and between them is toltec knowledge, I see that as not of this world, not of the capitalist exchange system, and to bring it into such is to miss what tolec teachings are imparting. Then the link to power is either diluted or lost. Usually diluted.
Seems like a major double-standard. Warriors and naguals are human
beings, first and foremost.  What's the difference between a spiritual
teacher and a piano teacher?  Is there really any difference, or just
self-importance that makes one think so?

As I see it, the difference only applies to Toltec understanding and specifically forming a warrior party. Warriors and nagauls are not just human beings, they are magical beings. They are here to learn to shift their aps to assemble alternate worlds. They are not 'here' the same way other humans are here. Warriors and naguals can slip through the openings and disappear. They are sorcerers.

[Nu Lang]

"Without a warrior or nagual apprentice to impart knowledge to, they as teachers serve no purpose."Wanted to add that warriors and nagual apprentices are conduits of Spirit (teachers) for the nagual too, so its not that they are only recipients, in fact, they teach...yet another reason they should not be charged.

[alien]

Nu Lang wrote:
alien wrote:
Seems like a major double-standard. Warriors and naguals are human beings, first and foremost.  What's the difference between a spiritual teacher and a piano teacher?  Is there really any difference, or just self-importance that makes one think so?  If you want someone's knowledge, what makes you think it is "owed" to you?  Isn't that the definition of SI?  If everything is energy, why is the energy of a nagual less than the energy of a piano teacher?  If we are going to operate under the notion that all things are equal, then all things are equal, no?  I'd really like to get to the bottom of this idea wherein folks seem to think they are entitled.  "Knowledge should be free!"  That's the old war cry, and MAYBE I agree with it in principle.  Sure, knowledge should be free.  But wha about someone else's time and energy?  Does anyone really OWE that to you? 
  I think that a nagual should not perceive they have something to offer (and charge for). In truth warriors and nagauls are equal. The nagual is a conduit, but in order to be a conduit, one needs a recipient, without the recipient, there is no need for the nagual. So they are completely equal. Charging money is saying that the nagaul is providing something, but in truth a nagual is just as much provided as they provide. Without a warrior or nagual apprentice to impart knowledge to, they as teachers serve no purpose.
That's not really the issue, and it sounds to me like somewhat of a song-and-dance routine.  I've never said the warrior and the nagual aren't equals - but don Juan said it quite emphatically.   When DJM asked Carlos if Carlos viewed them as equals, Carlos started some patronizing yada and DJM interrupted him to essentially say, "I am a man of knowledge and you are a pimp."  Heh.  I'm sure I can dig out chapter & verse if you really want it verbatim, but I suspect you're already familiar with the passage.  Point being - Carlos sought out don Juan, not the other way around, and that's the case w/ most warrior/mentor relationships.  The nagual isn't actively looking for students, but neither does s/he turn away if the student appears.  I've never turned anyone away for lack of ability to "pay".  But I HAVE turned away those who display a sense of "entitlement" - only because that mindset pre-determines that the "student" wants something for nothing, and whenever that is the case, the student is not committed to Knowledge, because their self-importance is so huge as to feel it is "owed" something by someone else.  I don't owe anyone anything.  I can't give anyone my knowledge. I can only give them information.

Spirit provides both...the teacher and recipient. Spirit is the value and is what makes it all happen. I see it as lack of humility on a nagual's part if they charge the recipient for their time.
You keep saying "I believe" and "I see it this way or that way..." and that's all okay, but I wonder where you are getting these "rules" and ideas. Just because YOU see it as "lack of humility on a natual's part if..." doesn't make it so.  It just means that's what you believe.  You say "Spirit makes it all happen" and "Spirit provides both"... but is that really a quantifiable truth, or only your personal belief system?  The reason I am pressing this is because we started to get into a similar difference of opinion regarding the foreign installation, and essentially I backed out because it became clear that you were basing so much of your argument on what you believe with essentially nothing to back it up other than belief itself.  At that point, hasn't it become just another religion?  So if you're going to make blanket statements, all I'm asking is that you back them up with some sort of personal experience.  WHY do you believe whatever it is you are arguing for or against?  I'm not talking about stuff written in books, but your own experience.  Why is it lack of humility on a nagual's part if they charge a recipient for their time?  Where is it written that a nagual must have "humility"?  Is that a requirement or just what you yourself might  prefer?  Why does payment (whether money or other form of barter) foul the equation in your eyes?  Is the knowledge not the SAME knowledge whether one pays for it with money, groceries or attention?  Why do you seem to think spiritual knowledge should be handed to you, when you wouldn't expect a lawyer to spend hours on your case without some manner of compensation?  Arguing that the tonal and the nagual are different really doesn't work here, because the basis of Toltec is that all things are equal. 
I'm not trying to be difficult - just pointing out that Toltec advocates the eventual loss of ALL belief systems, including its own.  So when you make arguments that APPEAR to be based on your personal beliefs, I think you're going to find some challenges from others who may not just blindly agree.
The nagual should be as grateful just to have the time and awareness of the recipient (and how it enhances they the nagual) as the recipient is grateful to the naguals teaching.
Grateful is great!  But it doesn't pay the bills. 

I do realize tonal concerns are a factor, thats why I say the nagual should accept the tonal for what it is and earn their living in a way that does not interfere with the nagual.
There's that word again.  "Should..."  Says who?  And while we're at it, WHY "should" a nagual earn their living in any certain way, anymore than anyone else?  All things are equal, remember?  I'm really just wondering if you are aware of the inherent contradictions between the actual Toltec teachings and what you yourself merely believe.  If YOU believe you should earn your living in a particular way, that's fine & good.  But why would you put that belief onto someone else with use of the word "should"?  Again, I'm not trying to yank your crank, just wanting you to really look at what you are saying, and compare it with the reality of the world in which we live. 
And I refer here to the lineage and teachings of Castaneda, Toltec knowledge. This is the area I feel one should not be charging for.
Why?  If Castaneda hadn't published his books - for which he was well paid - we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  Sure, MAYBE he wrote the first book as a college thesis, but ultimately "the further adventures of don Juan" made CC one of the most successful writer on the 20th century.  I assume you bought his books and didn't just pirate-download them for free off the internet, so isn't that just another form of paying someone for their knowledge?  Why is that okay and yet it isn't okay to deal one-on-one with a wo/man of knowledge?  This is where I see the double standard.  If Carlos had never written his books, but made himself available for a series of lectures, would you expect to attend for free?  Why is the spoken word (a lecture or in-person encounter) different from a book?  Why does the FORM the knowledge takes seem to make a difference?  Either you want the knowledge or you don't.
If one wants to be a yoga instructor as their day job, or an astrologer or medium, healer...those are all things that can be charged for. But when a nagual encounters a warrior who also has power and between them is toltec knowledge, I see that as not of this world, not of the capitalist exchange system, and to bring it into such is to miss what tolec teachings are imparting. Then the link to power is either diluted or lost. Usually diluted.
Do you even hear what you're saying?  Don't mean to be rude, but can you not *see* the double standard inherent in your comments here?  What's the difference in your head between a yoga instructor, astrologer, medium and a nagual? 

Seems like a major double-standard. Warriors and naguals are human beings, first and foremost.  What's the difference between a spiritual teacher and a piano teacher?  Is there really any difference, or just self-importance that makes one think so?

As I see it, the difference only applies to Toltec understanding and specifically forming a warrior party.
Why?  That makes no sense.  *shrugs*  And while we're at it, how many warrior parties have you formed? 

Warriors and nagauls are not just human beings, they are magical beings.
All beings are magical beings.  All beings are equal.

 They are here to learn to shift their aps to assemble alternate worlds. They are not 'here' the same way other humans are here. Warriors and naguals can slip through the openings and disappear. They are sorcerers. 
What does that have to do with the topic at hand?  If you knew someone had that knowledge - to slip through the cracks and disappear - wouldn't you feel that knowledge was sufficiently valuable to warrant compensation to someone who could teach you how to do it?  I would.