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"Glance is there another point you are trying to make? Could you be more direct and if possible relate it to this thread?"
Not another point, no. And apologies in just launching in the middle of the thread....hopefully there is some relation to the overall meaning...if I'm lucky LOL. I confess I didn't read the whole thing of it.
Somewhere you wrote that the Israelites and Arabs are fight over a piece of land that is an allegory. I agree wholeheartedly with this...in a way that relates specifically to impressions I felt compelled to put down in another thread just prior to the serendipity of reading the words written here. Synchronicity....of the type that I've learned to pay attention to.
Canaan is a state and quality of awareness that transcends previous socially enforced boundaries...a state of union that extends beyond previous encapsulation. I've felt something like this in intermittend states of expansion...the most profound when I was sitting on the side of the bed that one night...my awareness flowing through the walls of our apartment and out into the street and surrounding landing our apartment sits on. With this as a fundamental preview in my life (I hope and pray ...and a fundamental thread which seems to be emphasized almost constantly now. And all stories in the Bible seem to revolve around this thread for me. All are allegorical in this respect...a return to the Garden so to speak. The walls coming down in Jericho (sorry Rahab....bummer! But that fits too....the crumbling destruction of her externally based sense of certainty: the walls of her "city of safety"). I simply cannot see the Bible in any other light. And the perpetual dispute over the physical land of Israel simply represents what takes place on a personal level for me...my struggle with those elements of the self that vie for perpetuation....for "me vs. you" for "us and them"...on and on and on, perpetuation extending beyond lifetimes, if you believe the Buddhist perspective (I do in many ways).
So, I'm seeking for a personal death and ascension....the tearing of my veil separating me from the holy of holies. I had a big moment, yes..sitting on that bed at night several years ago....but it seems that I'm approaching my Canaan via the "scenic" 40 years venture LOL. I acknowledge my fears....trepidation looking at the soldiers of Canaan which caused me to shrink from initial opportunities to "take the land". Whatever. Back to it....the wandering has been a joy of ever increasing portions, meandering here and there (coyote trail . I don't know if I'll make it...but consider myself fortunate to have found a path at least.
Best to you, Lex. It's good to hear your voice again. I apologize for my disrespectful "hubris", as you put it, in the past. I thought I was doing the right thing...turns out I was just being obnoxious.
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Glance,
From an outside (of this converstation) standpoint, you are not being obnoxious. There are several examples, in the Forum of what obnoxious posting looks like if you need them (I suspect you don't) but your posts do not fall into that category. fwiw.
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Thanks for the kind words, Enchantra. My comments relate to behavior directed towards Lex some time ago. This is probably not the place for specifics regarding that exchange....but, ironically, the behavior had everything to do with upholding divisive boundaries..."us and them"...that seems to be delineated in this thread...or at least insights that I've derived from it.
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glance left wrote:Thanks for the kind words, Enchantra. My comments relate to behavior directed towards Lex some time ago. This is probably not the place for specifics regarding that exchange....but, ironically, the behavior had everything to do with upholding divisive boundaries..."us and them"...that seems to be delineated in this thread...or at least insights that I've derived from it.
Thanks for explaining.
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Hi Glance
Somewhere you wrote that the Israelites and Arabs are fight over a piece of land that is an allegory. I agree wholeheartedly with this...in a way that relates specifically to impressions I felt compelled to put down in another thread just prior to the serendipity of reading the words written here. Synchronicity....of the type that I've learned to pay attention to.
That was me, not Lex. To be more accurate it was a spiritual awareness, or whole chain of awakenings that are alluded to by the stories of the promised land which are allegorical stories. So, they are fighting over something they don't even know exists.It is a land that flows with milk and honey. Both milk and honey have one thing in common. They have already been digested and changed into something else.Spiritual food. You read an allegory and you understand the outward meaning right away. That understanding is digestion. You get past that meaning and begin to get a grip on the authors real "meaning behind the meaning." That is the second digesting of that subject and what allegory is.
Canaan is a state and quality of awareness that transcends previous socially enforced boundaries...a state of union that extends beyond previous encapsulation. I've felt something like this in intermittend states of expansion...the most profound when I was sitting on the side of the bed that one night...my awareness flowing through the walls of our apartment and out into the street and surrounding landing our apartment sits on.
And paying attention to those sychronicities as you are doing is an example of "transcending those socially reinforced boundaries."
My teacher used to use Gopi Krishna's book, Kundalini, The Evolutionary Energy in Man as an example because he said his description was very accurate.For years he used to say "Why, with 50,000 people in India doing the Thousand Petaled Lotus meditation did only one go through this experience?"One day he finally answered that question. He said it was because he "Exteriorized." This is what you are describing here. I just recently found this idea echoed in the promise To Jacob/Israel.
Ge 28:13
And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Ge 28:14
And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
With this as a fundamental preview in my life (I hope and pray ...and a fundamental thread which seems to be emphasized almost constantly now. And all stories in the Bible seem to revolve around this thread for me. All are allegorical in this respect...a return to the Garden so to speak. The walls coming down in Jericho (sorry Rahab....bummer! But that fits too....the crumbling destruction of her externally based sense of certainty: the walls of her "city of safety"). I simply cannot see the Bible in any other light.
I have found that no matter what subject or principle I am working on, it is reflected everywhere in the bible. Later I am looking into some other principle and that too is reflected everywhere. And not just in the bible, but...all around me.Here is an example. You mentioned Rahab. She is listed in the Geneology of Jesus which is important. But on another note, I was doing a study of equidistant letter codes and was using the words beast, Sethur and Beast. (Sethur being the only name in the Torah that adds up to 666)What I found was that wherever there were close matches there was the idea of something that was hidden being revealed.Joseph hid himself from his brothers and then revealed himself to them.Rahab dressed as a Harlot and then revealed who she was to Judah.The ungodly man in revelations is "revealed" in the midst of the week.6 is the number of Man and three is the number of "Manifestation in matter" So 666 is the revealing of what is in mankind. What drives or controls what Man is.The revealing of Rahab to Judah is the revelation of something of the Christ Consciousness in us. As are all of the names in the Geneology leading from Abraham to Christ listed in that Geneology. An awakening of some sort to Christ in us.So I was looking for an explanation of the Beast and found a revealing of Christ. And yet it all boils down to the same thing. You cannot have one without the other.
A friend once said to me if we cannot recognise the anti-christ how do we expect to recognise Christ if he came. It is very similar to what Don Juan said that we cannot understand the "nagual" without an explanation of the "tonal."
And the perpetual dispute over the physical land of Israel simply represents what takes place on a personal level for me...my struggle with those elements of the self that vie for perpetuation....for "me vs. you" for "us and them"...on and on and on, perpetuation extending beyond lifetimes, if you believe the Buddhist perspective (I do in many ways).
That perpetuation that exends beyond lifetimes only applies to those who do not escape the wheel of rebirth. That is the goal. In Christianity it is equivalent to becoming aware of Grace. To be "under Grace" as opposed to "under the Law."2ti 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truthA person who is under the law reads this and is condemned by it in their heart. (I read it for many years in this way.)A person who is under grace reads this and is freed by it. ( Reading it in this way, it is telling us the reason to study, because the bible is speaking of freedom from any comdemnation once you go through this veil.)Unfortunately, most churches and teachers have not gone through this veil and so teach the Old Testament law and call it Christianity. THAT is Anti-Christ and a sign that the "end times" are here and have been here for 2000 years.
Mt 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.At first, and for many readings of this verse I thought it meant false teachers, Guru's etc., claiming to be Christ. That is not what it says.It is speaking about so called Christian teachers, pastors and priests saying that Jesus is Christ, and yet teaching what should not be taught.
There is a sound that we hear as vibrations raise. Like leaves of a tree rustling in the wind. Something of us "falls apart" at times when we break through or rather are given a spiritual breakthrough. At these times the sound/vibration builds as a part of that experience.Jericho fell after three blasts of a horn. Seven trips around the walls for each blast of the horn, if I remember correctly.Seven is the number meaning Covenant or Promise.
Three= manifestation in matter.Gabriel is the Archangel who announces the New Covenant to Mary. He carries a horn.The sound of a horn can be both heard and felt. And it can build, the sound can grow as you blow it.The sound/vibration that accompanies some Spiritual experiences can grow so loud that you are sure it will tear your body apart if you do not leave the body.
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Yeah, I've heard that sound....mostly during the twilight between sleep/waking. My intention is to bring those experiences, however they manifest themselves, into the light of day. However, there is my consistency (or lack thereof) to contend with....remaining "steadfast" as the Bible puts forth..."praying without ceasing", which simply means remaining in a state of union via silence. This is not crystallized in my experience yet. Something seems to be gathering momentum though...I hope this isn't my "vain imagination". The night time experiences have tapered off...and something seems to be ramping up during the daylight hours. Again...I "hope and pray". I just want consolidation.....that's it. Whatever that brings...to others...to myself...so be it.
Sorry, I can't go through the post point by point..my energy is very low right now. I get the gist of it....what all the myriad fingers point towards....that central position within which descriptions become null in the face of the actual experience.
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lex icon wrote:
Good stuff Bob!
If, in our "philosophy", we do not have an explanation that says there is something beyond the second attention we will not experience the third. Bob
That certainly seems to be the case with CC. However here is an example contrary to this. Once I had gone through ALL the stages outlined by St John of The Cross something happened to me that was outside of the philosophy and tradition I was associated with. In that tradition mystical union is it. There was the goal of christian mysticism. After living this union and living it deeply embedded in life in this world there was a further movement that I knew nothing of at that time and when it happened to me it took me years to get accustomed to it. It took me just a couple of years to even find out what was happening to me.
The experience I refer to is the no-self experience associated with Buddhism. Now granted I was barely aware of the Buddhists referring to no-self but at that time I did not think it was an actual experience. I just thought of it as one of their tenets like, “from the beginning no thing”, you know their beliefs. I did not think of it as something available as experience. But that’s the way it usually goes for me. I experience these states often without knowing what they are and then my intellect plays catch up. I think DJ might see this as corroborating earlier movements and regaining or retracing that movement later more knowingly.
It is unusual for me to know about a state before hand and then actively pursue it. After I went through the “night or the senses” that St John refers to, and at that time I did not know what it was or that there was such a thing but later was able to read about it and find corroboration for what I had just gone through. It was then while reading about this night of the senses St John then referred to the next stage, the stage, “night of the spirit”. Having been totally unprepared for the night of the senses, I made every effort to avail myself before hand with everything ST John had to say about the night of the spirit. I even went as far as seeking advice about this from the monks at a monastery I frequented, I assumed they knew and could guide me. It turned out they did not really know about this and viewed me as rather desperate concerning this. IT turned out that the actual experience of the night of the spirit was quite unlike what I was reading, it was way more intense, however I did know that I was deep “in it” and did not try to get out of it as I had done previously with the night of the senses.
I hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition and I do not wish to direct people in that direction. I offer this only as an example of knowing what may lie ahead and not knowing what lies ahead but experiencing it anyway.Lex,
When you hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St. John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition. And staying outside the convention of who you are and not who you thought you to be or do and finally knowing there is no special enity or anybody inside the body making things happen. Things are happening anyway. There is freedom in this. God showed you St. John of the Cross way so you could experience that freedom within and the freedom without. The freedom of the delusion of "me".
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Lex,
When you hesitate to bring this up because the terms that St. John uses are so unfamiliar outside of that tradition. And staying outside the convention of who you are and not who you thought you to be or do and finally knowing there is no special entity or anybody inside the body making things happen. Things are happening anyway. There is freedom in this. God showed you St. John of the Cross way so you could experience that freedom within and the freedom without. The freedom of the delusion of "me".
Ninth,No you are missing my point here and blurring things together, probably because you are unfamiliar with what St John presents. Christian mysticism, of which I see St John’s work as a pinnacle, concerns itself with union with God. The work does not concern itself with the “delusion or me”as you put it. The Christian mystic considers themselves a mystery hidden in Christ. The way put forth by St John and others brings one into direct experience/knowledge of this mystery. During the process the “soul” passes through different stages, very clear land marks experienced by many others on the way. The soul is gradually stripped of its attachments until it stands naked in will/faith, (sweeping the tonal). One of the latter attachments to go is that because the soul is aware of the no small progress it has made in this work it cannot help but view itself as spiritual, no longer a novice but quite advanced and proficient in this way, the night of the spirit is a passive purging of these kinds of attachments in the forms which are most subtle, too subtle for the mind in most cases, forms of spiritual recognition of oneself as one who knows God and is known completely by God. Once this night of the spirit has been passed through the soul begins to recognize the union it has been brought into (takes years) but make no mistake this is a union of God and a very authentic self. I say authentic because the self is not deluded about itself. So there is still a very strong experience of this self in union with God. Other traditions present this same union in different terminology. (Solar lunar, father son. mother son etc).
The Buddhist no-self experience comes long after this. Where this spiritual self in union with God is lost. Both God and the authentic self in union with God and the “realm” where this activity of union took place falls away, collapses, utterly. This is only available to those who have achieved “union”. They are the only ones who would recognize it and could withstand it.
At the end of his life and work St John did glimpse this but he thought it was a glimpse of what happens after death and the heaven that awaited him. If he did understand the no-self experience he was silent about it. On a similar note; Thomas Merton after years of being a monk and teaching about these kinds of things that St John did eventually became a hermit. At the very end of his life he got permission to visit India. While standing at the foot of a huge Buddhist statute he had this break through and he wrote briefly about what happened. A silent statue speaking to a man of silence. But before he could explain what it all meant and put it into context he died on that same trip, electrocuted when a fan fell on him in his room.
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finally knowing there is no special entity or anybody inside the body making things happen. Things are happening anyway. Ninth
Not only is there no entity as you put it, there is also no "inside the body" where this entity might reside. Inside and outside, internal external are so deeply ingrained patterns of this imaginary entity. The idea of this entity is further maintained by the notions of inside and out and that things are actually happening. No Ninth, things are not happening anyway, they just appear to be. I tell you you that it is a shock to the system when internal and external no longer can be found. Embracing the idea of no internal or external is easy enough but losing the actual experience of it is something else.
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i wished to comment but i had little value to what you had already said Lex....
If he did understand the no-self experience he was silent about it.
in position of 'no-mind'..words are futile, at best they are an action of Spirits will, defining an experience, which is then, not from the space of no-mind at all..ie there is nothing to say or contribute of any use to anyone...
On a similar note; Thomas Merton after years of being a monk and teaching about these kinds of things that St John did eventually became a hermit.
its an 'alone' business....funny this word hermit, should come up again today..its happened several times over the last few days.... being 'alone; for many years before coming here to this forum only last year. its being contemplated again, or whether it is just the recognition again of it being an 'alone; business...mmmm
At the very end of his life he got permission to visit India. While standing at the foot of a huge Buddhist statute he had this break through and he wrote briefly about what happened. A silent statue speaking to a man of silence. But before he could explain what it all meant and put it into context he died on that same trip, electrocuted when a fan fell on him in his room.
you got any more, on this experience of silence meeting silence Lex?
This is only available to those who have achieved “union”. They are the only ones who would recognize it and could withstand it.
the 'alone' business.....i like the dilemma/solution in your post Lex...thanksxx
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Here you go Shamanka, The words about his breakthrough can be found here.
http://www.thomasmertonsociety.org/altany2.htm
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I had a more lengthy response to my withdrawing from Ravenfiled/DD, but this will probably suffice.
When I started reading what was posted there especially by you LW, I could not align. What you have outlined, the framework, so to speak is too “cookie cutter” for me. I think it is the responsibility of each new “era” of seers to wrestle with the designs of intent in order to fathom what is being indicated, what direction to move in, how to proceed, how to express and embody the inexpressible. We cannot put “new wine into old wine skins”.
I know earlier I was pressing about the Rule and nagual parties etc. I was trying to open a dialogue on the matter. I am far from adopting a literal interpretation of the Rule as expressed in Eagle’s Gift. It is not that I am against such an approach, such an approach might even be fruitful. The approach of generations past regarding the Rule expressed in CC’s works, is the fruit of “their” labor the expression of their wrestling with the designs of intent.
I find that those expressions of the eras of old and new seers and too 2nd attention ladened. The orientation and interpretation too burdened with dead ends.
This thread “Sorcerer’s Explanation Reviewed”, is the expression of my wrestling with the design’s of intent and the impact it had upon Don Juan’s life (not easy to get to). It has taken me a long time to even scratch the surface here, regarding, this era of the “Modern seers”. I confused the modern seers as new seers of this time. Nemo helped clarify that for me so I am now able to approach the implications of the “modern seers” and assess more accurately the conclusions of the new seers.
This thread represents the liminality of this process. There was such a lack of participation in this thread by the “sorcerer’s” of this forum. Regardless of what some might think of me, I urge you to put aside any personal feelings good or bad toward me and engage the content of this thread and let us hear from you.What do you think about the direction DJ appears to be advocating?
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Lex Silentio wrote:
finally knowing there is no special entity or anybody inside the body making things happen. Things are happening anyway. Ninth
Not only is there no entity as you put it, there is also no "inside the body" where this entity might reside. Inside and outside, internal external are so deeply ingrained patterns of this imaginary entity. The idea of this entity is further maintained by the notions of inside and out and that things are actually happening. No Ninth, things are not happening anyway, they just appear to be. I tell you you that it is a shock to the system when internal and external no longer can be found. Embracing the idea of no internal or external is easy enough but losing the actual experience of it is something else.Here again seems to be a great hard to grasp concept of no inside //outside of "deeply ingrained patterns of this imaginary entity. I take this as walking through life as the invisible man would? Does this mean since there be no distracting elements attached to the mind -where there doesn't exist borders or boundaries to the mind's eye?
"God's heart could be his heritage precisely because there was a hermitage , an unpretentious cinder-block building up there in the Kentucky woods, ten minutes walk from the monastery of Gethsemni. The hermitage could be everywhere because it was somewhere, the universal was rooted in the particular. Canon A.M Allchin. ( speaking of the tribute to Thomas Merton)
"I tell you you that it is a shock to the system when internal and external no longer can be found." Is this like the old analogy of the floating balloon filled with air inside and outside of it is in the same identical element. The balloon part with its thin shell of latex that captures the "appearance"of the air bursts!. In "hard"reality it appears to exist as in its original element- air.
I loved this this further quote from John Keats "negative capability", a not reaching for too easy or too ready rational answers when hard questions pressed down hard, but to live the questions and live them well.Implied here is that the Buddhist Christian dialogue for Merton was not about arriving at decisive answers , but calmly and passionately allowing oneself to become the questions , to be breathing koans.
Now let's get to the point of not only accepting, but embracing a "necessary ambiguity about ultimate concerns", starting with the empty tomb of Jesus.
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[b][b][b][b][b]Lex[/b][/b][/b][/b] Silentio wrote:[/b]
I had a more lengthy response to my withdrawing from Ravenfiled/DD, but this will probably suffice.
When I started reading what was posted there especially by you LW, I could not align. What you have outlined, the framework, so to speak is too “cookie cutter” for me. I think it is the responsibility of each new “era” of seers to wrestle with the designs of intent in order to fathom what is being indicated, what direction to move in, how to proceed, how to express and embody the inexpressible. We cannot put “new wine into old wine skins”.
I know earlier I was pressing about the Rule and nagual parties etc. I was trying to open a dialogue on the matter. I am far from adopting a literal interpretation of the Rule as expressed in Eagle’s Gift. It is not that I am against such an approach, such an approach might even be fruitful. The approach of generations past regarding the Rule expressed in CC’s works, is the fruit of “their” labor the expression of their wrestling with the designs of intent.
I find that those expressions of the eras of old and new seers and too 2nd attention ladened. The orientation and interpretation too burdened with dead ends.
This thread “Sorcerer’s Explanation Reviewed”, is the expression of my wrestling with the design’s of intent and the impact it had upon Don Juan’s life (not easy to get to). It has taken me a long time to even scratch the surface here, regarding, this era of the “Modern seers”. I confused the modern seers as new seers of this time. Nemo helped clarify that for me so I am now able to approach the implications of the “modern seers” and assess more accurately the conclusions of the new seers.
This thread represents the liminality of this process. There was such a lack of participation in this thread by the “sorcerer’s” of this forum. Regardless of what some might think of me, I urge you to put aside any personal feelings good or bad toward me and engage the content of this thread and let us hear from you.What do you think about the direction DJ appears to be advocating?
Is there a distinction between a modern seer and a new seer? I thought DJ used " modern" as another synonym for "new". Please correct me if I am wrong.
Lex, I think you hit the nail on the head with the full meaning of the word liminality.
I looked it up in wikipedia and there is much to say about CC in regard to his intention throughout his writings. I try to hear the heart of Castaneda when he does leave behind some of his own words-straight from the horses mouth so to speak, that have been said and captured in real time for our recapitulation. For instance CC said this in a 1994 interview..."Make intent an index. Intent is merely the awareness of a possibility -of a chance to have a chance. It's one of the perennial forces of the universe that we never call upon-by holding onto the intent of the sorcerer's world, you're giving yourself a chance to have a chance. Move toward it, without understanding." Carlos Castaneda
What do you think about the direction DJ appears to be advocating after reading this Castaneda quote in real time?
I think CC had enough dreaming and stalking under his belt especially the older he got. I think he took all those techniques that were dreamt in the 2nd Attention and later became proficent in the application and use of intent into the ordinary reality of 1st Attention.
The word liminality discribes the intent of The Sorceror's Explanation.
....a threshold in time or space, the middle ground between more than one entity without being either entity. The energy of both entities meet at this spot.( hello double
The top of a mountain -in between the sky and the earth. Seashore- inbetween earth and ocean. ( DJ taught CC to look at the horizon )
Midnight -for those it is neither past, present, or future. These are Celtic symbols that are 60 seconds related to spiritus munda, which is called the collective unconscious.
Betwixt and between liminality is sacred, alluring and dangerous. ( DJ warned CC against spending time in the inorganic world)
Jungian psychology has an archetypal figure, "the trickster". Is a symbol of the liminal state itself, and of its permanent accessibility as a source of re creative power. The "intermediate space" "excluded middle" or "between" the different kind of reality that is within it.
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Quote Lex:
'I had a more lengthy response to my withdrawing from Ravenfiled/DD, but this will probably suffice.
When I started reading what was posted there especially by you LW, I could not align. What you have outlined, the framework, so to speak is too “cookie cutter” for me. I think it is the responsibility of each new “era” of seers to wrestle with the designs of intent in order to fathom what is being indicated, what direction to move in, how to proceed, how to express and embody the inexpressible. We cannot put “new wine into old wine skins”.
I know earlier I was pressing about the Rule and nagual parties etc. I was trying to open a dialogue on the matter. I am far from adopting a literal interpretation of the Rule as expressed in Eagle’s Gift. It is not that I am against such an approach, such an approach might even be fruitful. The approach of generations past regarding the Rule expressed in CC’s works, is the fruit of “their” labor the expression of their wrestling with the designs of intent.
I find that those expressions of the eras of old and new seers and too 2nd attention ladened. The orientation and interpretation too burdened with dead ends.
This thread “Sorcerer’s Explanation Reviewed”, is the expression of my wrestling with the design’s of intent and the impact it had upon Don Juan’s life (not easy to get to). It has taken me a long time to even scratch the surface here, regarding, this era of the “Modern seers”. I confused the modern seers as new seers of this time. Nemo helped clarify that for me so I am now able to approach the implications of the “modern seers” and assess more accurately the conclusions of the new seers.
This thread represents the liminality of this process. There was such a lack of participation in this thread by the “sorcerer’s” of this forum. Regardless of what some might think of me, I urge you to put aside any personal feelings good or bad toward me and engage the content of this thread and let us hear from you.What do you think about the direction DJ appears to be advocating?'
For those who read the post by Lex regarding the two private forums here which are Ravenfield;a forum for people who want to learn how to dream better and explore their own and other's dreams which is not related directly to Castaneda. The other private forum he mentions is "DD" which stands for death defiers which is entirely based on Nagualism and the seeing of the Modern Seers (Eagles Rule). The framework I am building in that forum is just beginning and the forum actually only contains 5 posts outlining the The Eagle Vision and a few exercises involving sorcery. My interpetation of the path is not cookie cutter by any means but it does engage the warrior and not just write nagual philosophies. The sorcerer's explanation is clear once he arrives in full control of his thoughts and has accepted the intent of the spirit, it all becomes based on just living like a warrior.
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Very interesting Lone Wolf, and of course all will follow
what feels right to them. Often though what feels right is conditioning, and
for those who lean towards Toltec views in understanding, they will often
follow the energetic imprint of seers from past, if they are not seers
themselves.
This is a time when the basic energetic structure’s that
have been the working templates of the past, are going through a revolutionary
restructuring. Don Juan mentioned intending Total Freedom. The rule implies
being part of a structure, and being part of a structure as we can easily see
is not total freedom it is becoming a part of something.
As we struggle to see the modern energetic structure through
the cloud of what was presented to us and the unmanifested future there will be
some who will find what they are looking for in the ways of the past, that’s
great, but try not to rush to hold on to it, because the new structure has not been
placed before you for your perusal.
There is to my seeing such a large energetic fissure opening
up, that the need to form packs to navigate through the unknown, will be a
thing of the past.
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The other private forum he mentions is "DD" which stands for death
defiers which is entirely based on Nagualism and the seeing of the
Modern Seers (Eagles Rule). LW
LW Could you please expound on this, especially how you link the "modern seers" to the Rule? I believe what I have been showing in this thread is how the modern seers represent the possibility of achieving what new seers could not, though new seers knew of it, as we know by what DJ said of his benefactor and teacher. Those powerful men did not get it. So what is so different about what DJ is advocating, see? And how did he come upon it? That is what I am trying to point out here. That is what this thread has been about.
Your point of view here is vital if you continue to be willing to express it like this. It represents the position of one side of the threshold. Without its clear representation juxtaposed to what is one the other side of the threshold the point of demarcation is harder to see. I have been bringing the threshold itself forward. When we see that what the new seers represent and what the modern seers represent are not the same then we are in a position to really explore the implications involved and what this might mean as we press forward. This must have been what it was like when the new seers forged a new path from the old seers. What is surprising as it must have also been for the new seers way back when they started, is that the Eagle would just "move in a new direction" and it is up to us to discern the design of intent. This I believe is how we do it.
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I have had the Eagle vision many times during my life. With that said, I am living in today's world with you. Seeing the vision is the act of a 'seer'. Thus using this threshold I am a modern seer which is part of the 'new seers' and those are the ones came after the old seers. Modern Seers it seems that you and Nemo are defining are those who do not need the warrior party and who will shift en mass when the time comes. I agree there is coming such an event. I see two aftereffects of this shift, the ones who can shift will go but there will be others who will stay for various reasons. Some need to stay to lead humanity out of the darkness.
A group or by yourself, I can go either way but I listen to the spirit and it tells me to form a band of warriors.
The New Seers seek as Nemo says total freedom when the Old Seers sought power over death. Once you have seen what governs our deaths then you will know for yourself.
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I have had the Eagle vision many times during my life. With that said, I am living in today's world with you. Seeing the vision is the act of a 'seer'. Thus using this threshold I am a modern seer which is part of the 'new seers' and those are the ones came after the old seers. Modern Seers it seems that you and Nemo are defining are those who do not need the warrior party and who will shift en mass when the time comes. I agree there is coming such an event. I see two aftereffects of this shift, the ones who can shift will go but there will be others who will stay for various reasons. Some need to stay to lead humanity out of the darkness.
A group or by yourself, I can go either way but I listen to the spirit and it tells me to form a band of warriors.
The New Seers seek as Nemo says total freedom when the Old Seers sought power over death. Once you have seen what governs our deaths then you will know for yourself. LW
First let me say that many new seers saw something that they interpreted as an Eagle. This was common for new seers. But seeing this vision and interpreting it this way is not what DJ was up to. What is confusing here is that essentially DJ is a new seer but he is a new seer that has exercised this other option I am eluding to and that is what the modern seers are representing.
I do not particularly care for these term new seers and modern seers but they appear necessary for the moment while we bring to light this elusive quality of “modern seers”. I will continue to find new ways of putting this forth, new terms to distinguish, that I might influence movement along these lines.
LW when you present things the way you do above it blurs any distinction between new and modern seers. Essentially reducing a modern seer to a new seer in these modern times. The emphasis being on the period of time the new seers find themselves in. Going by that one might as well call them, say, digital seers of this digital age. In this way the accomplishment of the modern seers and its implications are neatly ignored.
DJ also said his immediate predecessors (they were new seers also) knew about what he is eluding to but these powerful men never attained it. They resigned themselves to learning of what appeared to them as mystery after they passed from this earth. This sounds similar to the predicament the Tenant (an old seer) found himself in.
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Modern Seers it seems that you and Nemo are defining are those who do not need the warrior party and who will shift en mass when the time comes. I agree there is coming such an event. I see two aftereffects of this shift, the ones who can shift will go but there will be others who will stay for various reasons. Some need to stay to lead humanity out of the darkness.
A group or by yourself, I can go either way but I listen to the spirit and it tells me to form a band of warriors. LW
Here the dialogue shifts. LW you are injecting into the dialogue several peripheral elements that really have little to do with what is being presented in this thread. But we can acknowledge them. First let me be clear for myself. I know nothing about an event, a shift en mass or the time when it occurs, other than a lining up of celestial bodies in the heavens. If this is a reference to 2012 I say good luck with that just as I say to all those Christians who keep expecting a similar event which never seems to happen. I might stand alone in my opinions to 2012. As far as I can tell there will not be any kind of exodus of people disappearing from the planet, probably not even a few. Those that put forth such notions I suspect have a fall back position of interpretation to save face and it will be laden with “the very subtle energetic influences” difficult to be aware of, that they will then proceed to interpret.
So LW if you choose this time or moment to leave this planet with a warrior party that is certainly an option but let everyone understand old seers even have been doing just that for a very long time, it really has nothing to do with a 2012 event. For new seers to be so attached to this notion of leaving this world alone or with a warrior party for life in an energetic body out there in infinity makes me wonder have we not learned anything in this regard. From what I can gather old seers were able to do this with entire populations even.
Very interesting Lone Wolf, and of course all will follow what feels right to them. Often though what feels right is conditioning, and for those who lean towards Toltec views in understanding, they will often follow the energetic imprint of seers from past....Nemo
Modern Seers it seems that you and Nemo are defining are those who do not need the warrior party LW
I think what Nemo was getting at was not so much that Modern seers do not need a warrior party but that the need for a warrior party itself will be a thing of the past, big difference.
It seems to me LW that it would have been better to ask Nemo why he thought that or how did he arrive at it instead of just diverting things back into the familiar. In my opinion this is how we struggle together to discern the designs of intent as it moves in another direction. Perhaps we are mistaken and there is nothing new happening in this regard and that modern seers is nothing but a new term for an old thing. If that be the case then there is nothing to fear here and if it is not the case and there is something to this then there is something beneficial.
As we struggle to see the modern energetic structure through the cloud of what was presented to us and the unmanifested future there will be some who will find what they are looking for in the ways of the past, that’s great, but try not to rush to hold on to it, because the new structure has not been placed before you for your perusal. Nemo
The New Seers seek as Nemo says total freedom when the Old Seers sought power over death. Once you have seen what governs our deaths then you will know for yourself. LW
Now, now guys play nice. A dialogue of this type needs time to develop its themes. When possible we need to give each other room to expound. Nemo’s first comment ended with the words, “if they are not seers themselves” (those of Toltec leanings would be “CONDITIONED” ) So LW defends his “seeing” and fires back, “Once you have seen what governs our deaths then you will know for yourself.”
I wouldn’t say that the old seers “sought power over death”. I just don’t think they had an answer for it so they sought to avoid it at all costs by whatever means available extending their existence for as long as possible. Ironic that for some this meant an existence worse than death itself. Now that is fascinating. For a lot of people they could not give a rats ass if they die some would even welcome it as an imagined relief from this toil and suffering. But for the old ones they knew things of such magnitude on a relative level that it was inconceivable to them to face even the possibility that death might eradicate or extinguish what they knew. They dared not risk it and these the most daring of men! They had become so indispensable in their own minds. And this is what governed their explorations.
Freedom is the goal of the new seers but if that goal becomes clouded by the ambitions of the old seers then even new seers such as Julian get waylaid. This is where the Sorcerer's Explanation can help as it lays the ground work for the modern seers, yet it too needs to be seen within the context that DJ was presenting it for it to be of any use. That is what this thread is about.
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Lex Silentio wrote:Freedom is the goal of the new seers but if that goal becomes clouded by
the ambitions of the old seers then even new seers such as Julian get
waylaid.
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Maybe everyone can read this and stay somewhat on the same page or come up with another conjecture.
http://www.inet.hr/~amodrusa/Tensegrity/armando.html
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There is some sort of energetic alignment taking place as I see more and more conforming to a possible shift. Any such connection would be beneficial to those who are on this path and are spiritual in nature. I, believe there has been shifts already and mankind's agreed upon assemblage point has moved thus we are not aware of it except at a deep spiritual level. As one, who has had end of the worlds dreams since as a child, its just part of my totality and deeply encrusted in my beliefs.
Back to the sorcerer's explanation...I put new seers and modern seers as the same in that what they want to attain. Lex states that the old seers have been putting warrior parties past the eagle for thousand of years but its a great thought and nice edge to this conversation. I hope that is true. At this point in the thread I would guess that the elephant in the room is: Is a warrior party needed these days and does the concept apply to "modern seers"?
Therefore, I beginning a warrior party is following the paths of the "Old Seers" WHO have been forming parties for thousand of years and successfully escaping death. Sounds like a nobrainer Lex when you put it in your terms.
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[b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b][b]Nagual[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b][/b] LoneWolf wrote:[/b]
There is some sort of energetic alignment taking place as I see more and more conforming to a possible shift. Any such connection would be beneficial to those who are on this path and are spiritual in nature. I, believe there has been shifts already and mankind's agreed upon assemblage point has moved thus we are not aware of it except at a deep spiritual level. As one, who has had end of the worlds dreams since as a child, its just part of my totality and deeply encrusted in my beliefs.
Back to the sorcerer's explanation...I put new seers and modern seers as the same in that what they want to attain. Lex states that the old seers have been putting warrior parties past the eagle for thousand of years but its a great thought and nice edge to this conversation. I hope that is true. At this point in the thread I would guess that the elephant in the room is: Is a warrior party needed these days and does the concept apply to "modern seers"?
Therefore, I beginning a warrior party is following the paths of the "Old Seers" WHO have been forming parties for thousand of years and successfully escaping death. Sounds like a nobrainer Lex when you put it in your terms.LW,
When you say "end of the worlds dreams" do you mean the end of the age ( meaning the end of the way we know this world to be , an entering into an " unknown" way of life here on earth. )
I listen to especially what the indigenous peoples have said and say about this scenario. The collective conscious connection that will occur with all peoples whom can withstand or withhold the pressure placed upon our magnetic field present in the body and way more acute then ever at the time of the greatest alignment of these celestial bodies. People will need to prepare for this because they will need to learn how to adapt to complete blackness for weeks? I suppose it is likened to being in a sweat lodge or tomb for weeks on end. The magnetic field will make us not remember were our heads our bodies are at We literally will not know if its head or tails ; ourselves from a hole in the ground. Trying to remain sane, and have inner silence for this home inside darkness will be detrimental to survival of the fittest in this respect. So yes it would mean we deep spiritual awakening would occur. We would need to prepare, repent, practice kenosis in order to sustain our being!
I have had my own end of the world hallucinations that are pretty much on the same page with the collective consciousness of what everyone has said or will have to say about the end of days. . The Toltec's way, or The Prophet's way, are leading to a final destination that is still earth. But a new earth will arrive where heaven aligns and greets earth. The new spiritual Jerusalem aligns inside the heart and mind individualistically by the opening up of every human's third eye who could withhold the darkness of those transitioning weeks.
Cleansing our own house (our bodies, mind, spirit done in humbleness) is needed to forgo this escaping of death in the end. The old seers, the old prophets , the new seers, the modern seers, Warrior Party or not find gain by transferring the individual subconscious into this massive transformation and diaspora of the collective conscious.
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Lex states that the old seers have been putting warrior parties past the
eagle for thousand of years but its a great thought and nice edge to
this conversation. I hope that is true. LW
No LW I did not say this. I am not sure when it was decided to form groups of warrior parties to dart past the eagle. It is not my intention to position you as a dark old sorcerer. But if we are reading the stories correctly the old seers knew a lot about the second attention. Their fascination of the 2nd attention and their fear of death led them through many different techniques dedicated to extending their life in the 2nd attention and circumventing death. The Tenant is just one example. The new seers were not immune to this either, Julian is an example mentioned by DJ. When I mentioned the ambitions of the old sorcerers, any and all would do well to understand the allure of 2nd attention. The dead ends of 2nd attention can glamor even the stoutest of new seers.
So I could spend a lot of time talking about warrior parties and disappearing together from this planet, something I know hardly anything about but admit is a very enticing possibility. Or I can take a look at this "cracking the bubble of perception" that DJ talked about, something I do know of as it aligns my experience. The latter is what this thread has been endeavoring to engage and bring forth for consideration.
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