The concept of self importance by DJ, does it work for you?

[Blue totem]

Hello shamans




DJ talks a lot about self importance in the books. Now I'm not anglophone, so maybe I'm not grabing the true meaning of self importance. For one, I
dont see why those two words are put together in this negative fashion. For me, the self is important, thats normal. Of course I give importance to my feelings
and emotions... Should I be self negligent instead? That doesn't sound right...




There is no negative meaning attached to the word self. There might be a negative meaning to the word ego, as in the concept of misplaced pride. I dont know if
Don Juan means that we have to avoid ego. That would make more sense. Then why use the words self importance? Can't he just say ego.




But something else comes to my mind. DJ was indeed a proud man, he never admitted to being wrong, even when he mistreated CC. Now isn't that being self
important?... I don't think DJ had an impeccable attitude.




Don't you think that DJ was trying to justify his own lack of affection for people? Isn't that misplaced pride or ego? Right? If you dont think people
are important, then you can treat them badly and not feel bad... Now isn't that what CC did afterwards with his followers? Maybe he did incorporate
DJ's lack of affection and consideration for people, and felt self rightous about it, just like DJ did...

[GS]

That's a common mistake Totem.






Self-importance is not the opossite of Self-neglection. It's something simpler and much more subtler.








Self-importance is our tendency to defend our self-image, that we regard as important to feel good about ourselves.






Ironically self-important people are the most self-neglected ones. They forget about their basic needs (such as health, love, proper diet, shelter and confort)
to pursue useless wantings of the self-image, such as being admired, having a lots of money and the next pleasurable thing they can think of doing.




This self-image not only drains by means of indulgences, but it's sustained with our life-force.






Loosing self-importance is about restraining our involvement with our self-image... towards dissolving it.This saves a lot of vital energy that is naturally
used to keep the AP in a state of heightened awareness.

[Blue totem]

I don't know, it doesn't sound good to me. It just doesn't sound right...




Then if it means defending self image, then why not say;''defending self image''.


And I don't know but having a good self image is important, its called dignity. You have to feel good about yourself.




Amy Wallace said that CC twisted the meaning of his teachings in order to serve himself. Now where did CC get that from?

[GS]

Blue totem wrote:

I don't know, it doesn't sound good to me. It just doesn't sound right...




Then if it means defending self image, then why not say;''defending self image''.


And I don't know but having a good self image is important, its called dignity. You have to feel good about yourself.




Amy Wallace said that CC twisted the meaning of his teachings in order to serve himself. Now where did CC get that from?


Babies and buddhas have no dignity nor self-respect. It's a learned conditioning of social nature.

[Gonzo]

Another shot at self-importance definition -




Is my life more important than:




a cockroach


an ant


a spider


a mosquito




I can kill all of them, and do, frequently. I think of the Buddhist admonition to "see the blood", and I believe I do. No life form is unimportant.
Each is a marvel unto itself. Am I greater than they? Really?

[Blue totem]

I understand your point Gonzo.




In face of the vast infinity of endless space, maybe we aren't more important than an ant. I get that.




But still, my own emotions, feelings and thoughts are very important. An I should be sensitive to them.


I have a feeling that this is not what DJ thinks...

[bluedreamer]

You are in a different part of the cycle than DJ was, your perspective might change down the road. DJ came to the realization that the self is a lie and a
hindrance and passed through it like a snake passes through its dead skin or maybe more like a self-immolating phoenix or like rumi described it: a chick pea
simmered to tasty perfection--ouch, oh-****!-- anyway, so the story goes. I am being boiled in a second fierce pot, so what do I know except to say that there
comes a time when what you thought was yourself becomes the dead skin that clouds your snake eyes.








I don't find that it means you will no longer have emotions nor do I think that it will be all over in one molt/boil/immolation, at least it hasn't
been for me thus far, my emotions flow better than they used to--I was dis-easerly repressed and now I am less so, lol. My self is still trying to jump out of
the pot though, what a quanundrum




I question the validity for me of some of the ideas in casteneda's book too but not the one about self-importance, there comes a time of dissolution

[dreamgirl]

Hey Blue Totem,




From our conversations in the past, I have to say that this sore point of self-importance is going to be a tricky spot for you. I think that I recognize the
place where you are, I may not though, and you are straddling a fence here. I feel for you, and know that wrestling with this idea will be tough, but it is the
fire, and when you emerge, no matter which direction you take, you will be stronger for it. Let me just say this, when we take care of ourselves, and honor our
spirit, emotions, ect., a certain amount of self importance will come to the forefront, and here is where that tricky game is played, to strengthen the ego
just enough, to become whole, to love ourselves so that we may fully love others, so that when the time comes for the changing of the guards, our ego will not
be demolished, but will submit.




I have to say that I agree with Don Juan about self importance, I had no problem with him on this topic. Some topics did give me pause, and some I just out
right rejected (especially the view on children!!!!! )




Bluedreamer - your post is awesome! It is funny how we both turned to alchemy descriptions to answer Blue Totem.

[Hawkeye Crow]

I have found the embodiment of the meanings of self-importance and self-pity to be a road to freedom. Burdens upon my perceptions and actions have been
removed.

[rasselon.nagual]

As Is I see it, a self important perspective means sending out thought patterns whose energy will have to be recovered through recapitulation or one won't
get past the eagle (which is the Law of Karma) and will end up having to light up another branch of the life tree (reincarnate). CC's books give the
impression DJ was completely indifferent, which is not true, he was filled with love, without which, he could not get past the eagle. The path of heart, the
path of ther nagual is the path of love. They cannot be seperated. It is no coincedence that the heart chakra, the power chakra, the seat of the nagual is
symbolized by a heart, the symbol of love.

[Mornings Son]

Here is some more on selfimportance - just jump the irrelevant stuff


http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/1382

[Guest]

just a thought - i believe to better understand this issue, one of the best things that a person can do is to get a second perspective. many other
"paths" are extremely similar to DJ's "warrior" path. tibetan buddhism, yogic paths, if you examine them closely you will see many
common themes. i think of it working the way our vision works: if you put your hand over one eye and try to walk around like that, your depth perception is
off. when you use two eyes, however, their combined information provides a better sense of totality in your vision. it's the same with DJ's or any
other path. you can better elucidate the true meanings by seeking other sources and from the combination, you'll find more depth. another thing to bear in
mind is that neither castaneda nor DJ are native english speakers. this is not to say that their word choices are incorrect, but it's something to keep in
mind.


the way i have come to understand "self-importance" is by examining the sense of the term "self" indicated here. the "self"
spoken about here is what can be called the "small self". it is the ego - the personality. it is the self that likes to think it is special, that its
job, family, money, or values defines and exalts or condemns it. that self is the part of you that needs to be important to go on existing. therefore, we
constantly talk to ourselves about aspects of this self, to keep it vitalized. nothing energizes this self better than setting apart from everything else by
acknowledging its aspects, functions, or charateristics - even in a negative way.


i think we all can agree that this self is not truly who we are. you will go on living and being just as important as the homeless war vet or the terrorist or
the newborn baby without that self. beyond that self, the only thing that distinguishes one of us from the other is the amount of energy we have and what
we're doing with it. "getting rid of self-importance" is just the Warrior's way of "killing the small self" so that the higher self
can resume its rightful place as the true leader of the totality of yourself. it's the ultimate petty tyrant.

[Guest]