Howard Y. Lee, Castaneda's Reluctant New Nagual

[dreamways]

grandspeculator wrote:



According to the "nagual scriptures" the Death Defier's idea behind taking energy from naguals is about closing the gap that allows death to
enter our coccon and take us away.




How long does a single "energy drink" last in a Death Defier's energy configuration?

How that whole process works is probably a good thing to know. The fact that a death defier got mixed up with a lineage of modern sorcerers is
not an accident, not even close. From the moment the death defier showed up until the moment he left, everything was guided by him, all towards executing his
long term plan. Before going into what that plan might be, I think it is more important to focus on the type of knowledge that it required to pull it off.
The knowledge of what a nagual is, how a nagual is made, and what a nagual is for. There is a bit more to the story than what Castaneda deemed fit to write
about. Hopefully I can present it in a way somebody can make use of.

[grandspeculator]

dreamways wrote:


grandspeculator wrote:



According to the "nagual scriptures" the Death Defier's idea behind taking energy from naguals is about closing the gap that allows death to
enter our coccon and take us away.




How long does a single "energy drink" last in a Death Defier's energy configuration?

How that whole process works is probably a good thing to know. The fact that a death defier got mixed up with a lineage of modern sorcerers is
not an accident, not even close. From the moment the death defier showed up until the moment he left, everything was guided by him, all towards executing his
long term plan. Before going into what that plan might be, I think it is more important to focus on the type of knowledge that it required to pull it off.
The knowledge of what a nagual is, how a nagual is made, and what a nagual is for. There is a bit more to the story than what Castaneda deemed fit to write
about. Hopefully I can present it in a way somebody can make use of.



Hopefully. This **** is the core issue. How the energy body is made seashell-like, how the gap is actually "protected", how the energy
is properly used to make it last...




For the naked eye the whole idea of an open lineage is having "pure" double beings to feed off in exchange of AP positions. There is more to it, of
course, but it's beyond comprehension of most people.

[dreamways]

grandspeculator wrote:

Hopefully. This **** is the core issue. How the energy body is made seashell-like, how the gap is actually "protected", how the energy is properly
used to make it last...




For the naked eye the whole idea of an open lineage is having "pure" double beings to feed off in exchange of AP positions. There is more to it, of
course, but it's beyond comprehension of most people.

In order to do anything that a death defier does you would have to be one first, or, something that a death defier made you into. Death defiers
remind me of bees, in that they go out and harvest energy as if it was honey, then bring it back to their home.

[grandspeculator]

It will come, in time.

[dreamways]

Both kinds of death defiers live with their own kind only. The black hand sorcerers all live together in a single gigantic energy body. They maintain
their individuality but also share energy. They are able to come and go from this home of theirs, sort of like a hive I guess, and they are inorganic because
they don't have physical bodies. They do not live with the inorganic beings that are allies, but they cooperate with them. Their long term goal is to
become one huge high energy being that will be able to travel to some far off beyond, to freedom.




There are lineages that exist that are not influenced by the death defiers, but Castaneda's lineage is not one of them. When death defiers control a
lineage, what they are really controlling is who the naguals of that lineage are, because they only accept naguals that they resonate with. It makes me wonder
what it would be like to witness an unaffected lineage, one that was only guided by the spirit. The mechanism of nagual creation is different for the two
types of lineages, the manner in which succession takes place is not the same, the energy moves differently between the nagual leader and his apprentice
nagual, its a different type of initiation.

[grandspeculator]

Aparently the "working bees" get enough energy to do their energy-collecting business while the rest of the sorcerers stay put in their shared energy
body.




As for the shamanic lineages without death defiers, there are a number of them... as far as I know, in Peru, some nordic countries and Russia.




I'am remembering the episode when Don Juan takes Carlos to see the Death Defiers on their carefully prepared trap... who knows how many fell prey of them.

[dreamways]

grandspeculator wrote:



I'am remembering the episode when Don Juan takes Carlos to see the Death Defiers on their carefully prepared trap... who knows how many fell prey of
them.

Well, if you are on the same wavelength as the death defier, it wouldn't be a trap. They don't mess with anyone that is not like them.
Even Don Juan was like them, otherwise he would not have been accepted. I think Don Juan was kind of pissed off, because he knew that his involvement within
his own lineage was not left to chance. Even though the spirit chose him, and chose Castaneda, it really chose them for the death defier. So, you have to ask
yourself, can death defiers control the workings of the spirit or is the spirit actually on their side? And, how much say if any does a nagual have in
choosing his successor? What the death defiers showed me, which I wasn't aware of before, is that there is a single event, an energy transfer between a
lineage's existing nagual and his chosen apprentice. We already know that the nagual apprentice has to be a double being, but there are lots and lots of
double beings out there, so that's just the minimum requirement. We also know that the nagual candidate has to be capable of fulfilling his duties, but
there is quite a bit of leeway here as long as the person has manifested a high energy level. Castaneda also spoke of "cyclic beings", people who
are energetically related, apparently this being a crucial element of constructing a nagual's party. I think that if nagualists can fully understand the
"mechanical" workings of lineages, naguals and their parties, it will be alot easier for them to successfully branch off into a variety of
directions. I was hoping that Cleargreen would end up being a sort of bootcamp for future sorcerers and naguals, but instead it just ended up being another
instrument of the death defiers. Obviously, all my chips are on them, but that's just me, I know there are many other possible ways to walk the path of
nagualism, and I would like to see most of them succeed.

[grandspeculator]

I don't know about all the Death Defiers, but I tend to think that the Death Defier of the lineage of the new seers is working the Intent of the Spirit.
It's still a strange arrangement, since a black hand sorcerer should not be able to work the Intent of the Spirit.




By definition a black sorcerer is an ambitious tonal with no interest whatsoever in the Intent of the Spirit. I don't dare to speculate about it now.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

The Death Defiers are black sorcerers you know. They manipulate the spirit.

[grandspeculator]

Yes, of course, but there are degrees of black. A latin american esoterist used to say that before reaching "spiritual perfection" we are all more or
less black.




But again, I dare not to speculate about it.

[dreamways]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:

The Death Defiers are black sorcerers you know. They manipulate the spirit.
Yep, it sure seems to be that way. Hey, I added a bunch to my previous post, just now, I guess I should have added it here instead.




Anyway, I think it is important that I mention that the old sorcerers who sacrificed people on top of pyramids were the "rejects" who could not dream
properly, they are the poster children of being "dead wrong." Those sorcerers, who terrorized people in the past, were completely disconnected from
the spirit, they only followed their sociopathic egos.




The black hand sorcerers know the power of the spirit and exploit it somehow, it still shocks me to consider this, how that could be possible.

[grandspeculator]

He, apparently there are still many of those rejects around. Dreaming requires discipline that this fellas don't have.

[Hawkeye Crow]

This line of reasoning opens up , for me , an entirely new perspective. What is being said here makes sense , and connects to many issues and fears ,
including don Juan's recorded statement that, ' average people are the real sorcerers. ' The USA vice-president , for instance , is on record as
claiming the 'dark side' for himself , as if he were Darth Vader. As a student of the Nagual , I doubt if this is a joke.




Anyhow , my point is that , as I continue in this study, I now have a new perception of its meaning , and , the meaning of morbidity in the context of sorcery.




The question that arises is what is the connection to FI?

[Hawkeye Crow]

Oh yes. The Death Defier does indeed correspond to legends of the vampire.




Psychology recognizes the 'psychic vampire' , who is one that lives on the energy of other people. Perhaps the opposite of a warrior. I've been
on both sides this one in my life.




Curiouser and curiouser

[dreamways]

Hawkeye Crow wrote:

The question that arises is what is the connection to FI?


Pretty much, the more someone focuses on themselves as the topic of their "spirituality" the less chance there is that they have anything else to
offer or accept. The best way to go about nagualism, in my opinion, is carefully and methodically; at least try to know what path you're really on, if
nothing else.

[dreamways]

One way or the other, I think that we are lucky that Howard Lee makes himself readily available. He is a walking, talking, breathing, though reluctant,
product of the death defier's legacy, you could learn alot by meeting him, regardless of your path.

[grandspeculator]

I'll take note of this.

[dreamways]

So, regardless of whether you are influenced by a death defier or following the spirit, nagualism is not in your hands. The spirit does not accept volunteers
but then neither do the death defiers. Carlos thought that if he overrode the spirit, if he could pick a freedom seeking nagual, like Howard, the means would
justify the ends. Did they? I guess we'll see. Howard doesn't seem able to accept that the death defier made him into a nagual at the request of
Carlos, he actually thought that when he went down to Mexico with Carlos to let the death defier take a look at him, that nothing happened. The moment he
agreed to take that trip, his fate was sealed. I mean, what kind of **** agrees to meet the death defier, knowing that only new naguals are granted that
meeting, and then tries to back out of it after the meeting has already taken place. What a fucking ****. Howard also thinks that his ability to transmit
energy was granted by infinity or something, that he did it all on his own even though he told me that he has no idea where it came from. Hmm, I think I have
an idea where it came from. What's even more pathetic is that he thought that the death defier was trying to steal his ability to transmit energy. First
of all, the death defier already got the energy he needed from Howard when they met, secondly, the ability to channel energy was the gift Howard got in
exchange for it. Howard is 100% death defier made and owned. But can he still find freedom? Well, the death defier did leave the lineage, so maybe Howard
can find freedom, maybe he already traded something for it.

[grandspeculator]

One would think that a rather sober and stable person like Howard would be more aware of his doings. If he doesn't know the inner workings of his
habilities and his deal with the Death Defier he is worst than stupid... yet, he is, according to your testimony, the new nagual. Perhaps he now knows better
(time does that), but I don't think he will be publishing a book titled "Thanks Dee Dee".




I was recently reading one of Castaneda's book that explained the process of "creating" the nagual of the party. Castaneda had his nagual removed
and got the nagual of Don Juan (aparently more developed)... if I remember correctly. That process made him the new, and last, nagual of that line and saved
him of the "not-doings" of Donia Soledad.




Fucking interesting!

[dreamways]

grandspeculator
wrote:



One would think that a rather sober and stable person like Howard would be more aware of his doings. If he doesn't know the inner workings of his
abilities and his deal with the Death Defier he is worst than stupid... yet, he is, according to your testimony, the new nagual. Perhaps he now knows better
(time does that), but I don't think he will be publishing a book titled "Thanks Dee Dee".



LOL, ya . Everybody the death defier met in that lineage took his offer, because the lure of manifesting ancient power is very great. The
problem with Howard is not sobriety, it's hypocrisy. If you're looking for a pure freedom seeking lineage, it has to be led by naguals that choose not
to manifest any iota of power that is not natural. Of course, that makes for a very humdrum type of sorcery, just tapping into the inorganic realm for a
dreaming boost and nothing more. I mean, that's the theory.




I appreciate the concept of a transcendent freedom, and hope that somebody is able to go down the road that leads to it, but fate did not put me on it this
time around. Some people might think that my intent is to entice them with the death defier's treats, but, actually, I describe them for the purpose of
showing what not to do, if they want to be what Don Juan has aspired to. Here's another tip: death defiers use "earth" energy, as opposed to
"air, fire, or water" types. There are energetic qualities of minerals that they have incorporated into their being, it is pretty much the
foundation of their magic. As far as the planet Earth goes, it is just a dreaming outpost for them, it is not primary or crucial to their activities.

[grandspeculator]

Here's another tip: death defiers use "earth" energy, as opposed to "air, fire, or water" types. There are energetic qualities of
minerals that they have incorporated into their being, it is pretty much the foundation of their magic. As far as the planet Earth goes, it is just a
dreaming outpost for them, it is not primary or crucial to their activities.


Sounds about right, since it's the most naturally abundant form of energy.

[Vrill]

Hmmm, I was just reading through his material.





It is a powerful, multi-dimensional resource from which we can draw from so as to live life with better health and longevity. In addition to enhancing a
person's life force, the wisdom within opens up our awareness and begins a process of individual energetic alignment and equilibrium of the
multidimensional self. Simply put, The Light of Life® is not the generic qi, chi, prana or others referred in various cultures. The Light of Life encompasses
multidimensional energies encoded with Knowledge which facilitates transformation and enlightenment.
Well sorry Mr. Lee you can't really copyright GOD. Much as you would like But it's a really interesting explanation!

[dreamways]

Vrill wrote:

Hmmm, I was just reading through his material.





It is a powerful, multi-dimensional resource from which we can draw from so as to live life with better health and longevity. In addition to enhancing a
person's life force, the wisdom within opens up our awareness and begins a process of individual energetic alignment and equilibrium of the
multidimensional self. Simply put, The Light of Life® is not the generic qi, chi, prana or others referred in various cultures. The Light of Life
encompasses multidimensional energies encoded with Knowledge which facilitates transformation and enlightenment.
Well sorry Mr. Lee you can't really copyright GOD. Much as you would like But it's a really interesting explanation!







I think that he just got a bit overexcited when he realized he could channel energy, as any real nagual does; you really have to be grounded not to let
something like that go to your head. Like many other people I've run into, I'm a "double being" but not a nagual, I can't channel
energy, so, I can't really speak with authority on this subject. I often wonder how stupid I might become, if I suddenly got the ability that a nagual
such as Howard received. Energy is like money, tapping into a mainline of energy is like winning the lottery, it can make you think you are something super
special. At least, Howard Lee does have some leadership qualities to him, so, it could have been worse, in my opinion.

[grandspeculator]

At least, Howard Lee does have some leadership qualities to him, so, it could have been worse, in my opinion.
Time will tell. For the time being there isn't a soul bitching about the abuses of Howard Lee. He seems harmless... but he is, at the same
time, a very sober and discrete self-important nagual.




Power, any form of it anyway, make us think tha we are superspecial. It happens to most of the good and bad naguals.

[dreamways]

grandspeculator wrote:

Time will tell. For the time being there isn't a soul bitching about the abuses of Howard Lee. He seems harmless... but he is, at the same time, a very
sober and discrete self-important nagual.



Good point. Howard was already an experienced teacher before he became a nagual. Sort of explains the difference between him and Carlos I guess.