Stopping the internal dialogue.

[Mornings Son]

Don Juan on Stopping the internal dialogue.

Sorcerers call it stopping the internal dialogue, and they are convinced that it is the single most important technique that an apprentice can learn. Stopping the internal dialogue is, however, the key to the sorcerers' world..the rest of the activities are only props; all they do is accelerate the effect of stopping the internal dialogue. 
As you know..the crux of sorcery is the internal dialogue; that is the key to everything. 
the passageway into the world of sorcerers opens up after the warrior has learned to shut off his internal dialogue.

to change our idea of the world is the crux of sorcery.. and stopping the internal dialogue is the only way to accomplish it. the rest is just padding. ...nothing of what you've seen or done, with the exception of stopping the internal dialogue, could by itself have changed anything in you, or in your idea of the world. the provision is, of course that the change should not be deranged.... that is why a teacher doesn't clamp down on his apprentice. That would only breed obsession and morbidity. 
The difficulty for the average man is the internal dialogue. Only when a state of total silence is attained can one use the (earth) boost.





***
For me Zen meditation has been the way to achieve this silence in the head. It has not been easy at all, still this monkey mind is full of good ideas, yet its easier to shift AP into one position where I just am and there is no radio station with a comment running in the head. 
Is Don Juan right that this is crux of sorcery? Im not sure, yet I must say that being open and letting 'things' manifest without putting them in boxes often times leaves me with magic experiences. Coincidences that are unreal. The second attention can much more easy be 'seen'/felt as well as that of silent knowledge. Like not knowing where my mobil phone is, because my daughter hide it for me and then it accidentally falls down behind a chest. Intuitively I just go there are take my hand down and pick it up. 
To keep quite is difficult when the un-expected, power or spirit manifest, so having a firm practice of keeping the mind still is good.

[serloco]

I would say that stopping the world is great practice because your mind is habituated in the first attention and constantly tells you what the world is. However fluidiity f the dialogue is also a great practice as you can control your thoughts and dialogue and thus control the fluid direction in which you are headed.

I enjoy having a primal mind, raw ideas ad realizations without them being translated into words. The translation process is slow and I prefer to think fast. Talk talk talk! Too much talk.

[glance left]

I agree, stopping the internal dialog is paramount in my pursuit. Silence is the key-stone for me, slow as I am to put it into place. All confusion just seems to vanish amidst that space....everything becomes clear and simple.

Everything I do, I want it to be embedded in silence.....every experience I can possibly imagine, regardless of how outrageous...silently observed and appreciated. Doesn't mean I don't interact, it just means that the interaction needs to flow from that silent foundation. Otherwise my tendency to get lost amidst the interaction. No worries, though....to be lost...is to then be found. I've made it a consistent practice in being found again and again by silence and by the Spirit.

One day I will simply stay, and not get lost....soon, I hope. But for now, I walk in the grace of remembering myself over and over and over again.

[Billy]

Similar to what glance left is experiencing, I go further and further down into abasement's purity.  In quasi self-negation a greater self emerges.

Then, I am not stopping the internal dialogue so much as encompassing it with commensurate awareness to simply have ease and fluidity.  I take on the fire of being.
 

Mornings Son, I appreciated your sense of humor about my 'unstable ignoramuses' slight.  Kudos.

rosygyro, I loved the post about first and second coats.  Eating the sandwich remark was a classic.

[glance left]

" I go further and further down into abasement's purity. In quasi self-negation a greater self emerges.

Then, I am not stopping the internal dialogue so much as encompassing it with commensurate awareness to simply have ease and fluidity"

Yeah, escaping through the subterranean river that glides unimpeded beneath what seems impenetrable. Beneath the dialog. Ground water finds a way to seep through.

And then....as below, so above.

[Billy]

glance left- ...Beneath the dialog. Ground water finds a way to seep through.

And then....as below, so above. 


Nicely said, glance left.

[serloco]

Stopping the internal dialogue is an act of intent and specialized sorcery knowledge. It is designed to suspend your inventory, your definition of the known world, to allow something new to flow into its barren place. It is an act of sorcery. It is a sorcery act to make your knowledge of the tonal inactive.

[Billy]

Yep.  Though, I prefer to use the term stopping the world.  It subsumes internal dialogue and the shift into another attention.  I'm a bad boy Derek; I've made a seies of remarks that were disparging of you.  I am hereby aware to attone.  Honestly though, my 'wimpers' will do me no good.  I am being severely punished by someone.

[serloco]

Suck it up pup. The merry go round of life goes up and down. As you know. You can waste the energy or grow from it!

[Billy]

I assume you'ld know I haven't gotten this far along depersonalizing by having regrets.  I'm waiting in Ixtlan chat "tumbleweeds."

[Mornings Son]

glance left wrote: Everything I do, I want it to be embedded in silence.....every experience I can possibly imagine, regardless of how outrageous...silently observed and appreciated. Doesn't mean I don't interact, it just means that the interaction needs to flow from that silent foundation. Otherwise my tendency to get lost amidst the interaction. No worries, though....to be lost...is to then be found. I've made it a consistent practice in being found again and again by silence and by the Spirit.

One day I will simply stay, and not get lost....soon, I hope. But for now, I walk in the grace of remembering myself over and over and over again.I believe that what you talk about is functioning from a non dualistic mind, yes? When being one with what is going on, there is a loss of self. Do I get it right? Maybe you could explain a bit more about getting lost.

[Mornings Son]

Billy you are a strange cookie... One thing I got about you is that you believe firmly in YOUR path as YOU understand it.

This is actually a good thing, so seeking here and there for knowledge can be a delusion....

[Mornings Son]

Serloco I agree, yet reaching inner silence is not (for me at least) reached with just intending it. Heh one day when I have more personal power it might be so. For now I have to put action behind the intent. Breath out deeeeeeeeeeplu again and again...

Also there seems to be layers of silence and of undoing the world. When I reach places that is like being on psychedelics or power plants it gets harder to keep going...

[serloco]

Sure MS, but try to understand that everything is intent. In your case your actions are your intended actions. YOu intend to need more then your current idea of intent, but really that action is the road you intend to your destined intended outcome.

[serloco]

if you intend it to be hard, then so shall it be as you intend. There is a place of power similar to "no doubt" where the greatest feat is equal to the easiest action.

[glance left]

I can't speak to functioning from non-dualistic mind. I've never been there...at least from my current conscious recollection's perspective.

I'll call it functioning from a silent perspective, which may very well progress and deepen to a non-dualistic perspective in which union is complete (DJ called this "merging with infinity", I believe)

When I refer to "getting lost", I simply mean functioning from the opposite of the silent perspective....one of only partial consciousness with the internal dialog commanding the rest of my attention, with all it's conflicting, confusion, untenable perspectives and directives. Quite simply, I feel lost whenever functioning from this perspective. And I feel distinctly found when I remember myself and become silently aware again.

[serloco]

I found another solution to the whole 'stopping the I.D.' In sorcery we are taught that the internal dialogue sustains the world we live in and that by stopping it we break free of its hold on us. But we are also taught to place power responsibly and so why not just remove the power of the internal dialogue to sustain the world? I do that all the time.

[glance left]

Sounds like a perfectly viable approach. I say go for it

[Mornings Son]

Serloco I think that

'remove the power of the internal dialogue to sustain the world?'
is a very deep rooted function of our mind and that it is not easy done. Maybe you could elaborate.

I understand what you mean with everything is Intent, yet Don Juan distinguish between Intent and Action, where Action is a function of will.

So I believe that Intent is a 'source code'

Glance Im sure you know non dual stats of mind, its not uncommon

[glance left]

Maybe

[serloco]

Mornings Son wrote:Serloco I think that
'remove the power of the internal dialogue to sustain the world?'
is a very deep rooted function of our mind and that it is not easy done. Maybe you could elaborate.

 
Well ya see, everythingn you accept as real, is real in your awareness. Knowledge gets activated and aligned into form. Even the knowldge of sustaining the world thru use of the internal dialogue is knowledge thats been taught to you and thus activated by your acceptance of that form. It becomes your intended action. For myself I developed a very strong command that i call my teller. I use it in my mind or say it outloud. All I needed to do was voice the intent that my thoughts and my words spoken in my mind do not form my reality. I took a lil cohesion to get it sound. I did it when I became hurt and my mind was attacked by outside forces I could not control. They would control my mind and so I did not want to empower the internal dialgue anymore as it would have led me to disaster. So I decided, thru my awareness of power and how to place it where I want it to be, that my command would be better then my thoughts when it comes to sustaining the world.

[Turin Otzaki]

I like the visual of allowing, even welcoming, the thoughts (feelings and sensations) to come in through the front door but then not inviting them to stay for tea. To gently let them out through the back door. I have found that trying directly to quash the internal dialogue hasn't worked for me. Being aware of my breathing in and out helps me not to invite them to tea.

[Turin Otzaki]

I like the visual of allowing, even welcoming, the thoughts (feelings and sensations) to come in through the front door but then not inviting them to stay for tea. To gently let them out through the back door. I have found that trying directly to quash the internal dialogue hasn't worked for me. Being aware of my breathing in and out helps me not to invite them to tea.

[Mornings Son]

Serloco.

What you write makes me think of the rutine done in D&D where you could state you disbelieved what your perception 'told' you.

Let me put it what you say to a test. Can you not accept gravity or the blueness of the sky at day or the heat of the sun on your skin?

What can you not accept that works for you?

[Mornings Son]

Non attachment to what pops up in da head is a good one. I use this too )))
Turin have you tried to use gazing to quite the internal dialogue?
Sitting still for looooong time also is a good one.