Fire

[Bob May]

Hi all,
I have been doing some meditations again, after a haiaitus for a few years for health reasons.
It's happening again. I am getting a lot of revelations from the bible and getting a better understanding of things that have happened to me in the past.
That is what I wanted.
Now if my body holds up I will share some of things here if that is ok.
I believe it to be the Baptism of Fire and don't know how far it will go.
If it is ok I will write some of my experiences and the ideas that come to me here. I'm on a bible study forum also but this would go over like a lead balloon there.
I keep thinking about writing a book someday and maybe this could be part of it. I'm to the age now when I like to think I am leaving something worthwhile to my sons and others. So I have been teaching my youngest to play guitar and recording my songs. This I would also like to do if there are no objections here.
I apologize in advance for using Biblical, Allegorical or Qabalistic terminology for these things. That is how I understand these things.
Again, if it is ok, feel free to ask questions or comment, I may answer if I have the answers or as I understand the answers but I will keep going on with my story.
Or maybe Wolf would like this on another separate thread. That would be ok too.
Let me know Wolf.

[Bob May]

Also, I forgot to menation I will have to back up many years to the beginning. O therwise I will not merely be misunderstood, but, I'm afraid not understood at all.

[Guest]

Bob,
Have you checked out any of the Kundalini forums or groups?
Bob May wrote:Also, I forgot to menation I will have to back up many years to the beginning. O therwise I will not merely be misunderstood, but, I'm afraid not understood at all.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Your welcome to post here in this forum my old friend...I am always interested in your unique perspective.

[Bob May]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:
Your welcome to post here in this forum my old friend...I am always interested in your unique perspective.Thanks Wolf,
I don't know exactly how I will go about this but I have been having some real revelations about what has happened to me in the past and what is happening now. I am copying this from the third attention thread because it is what is happening to me now. It's all beginning to come together.
The pieces of the puzzle of my life are falling into place.

Man is body, soul and spirit.
First attention the body attention is one every man agrees on. We get glimses of second attention here.
Second attention is when our third eye or Seeing begins to happen. It is not a pleasant experience. Sorcerer's World. We get glimses of third attention here.
Third attention is Clarity.
There is one Baptism. It has three aspects. Spirit has three aspects symbolised by the three Hebrew letters Mem M, Aleph A, and Shin Sh.
These symbolise Water, Air and Fire respectively.
The First Baptism, is Water. Symbolised by the Flood story in the bible. We are lifted above humanity and the Earth To see from a higher vantage point. This is "Stopping the World." The Flood is when reaffirmations become constant. We open the window (third eye) in the ark and let out a crow (negative experiences). Then we let out a dove (a glimse of air which we will be moving into next) The dove returns with an olive branch. (a glimse of the fire or third stage of baptism. The olive branch produces olives which are crushed to produce olive oil to burn in lamps.)
The Second Baptism is Air. For me this was the vision of Jacob's Ladder/Coat of Many Colors. a column of living light with all the colors of the rainbow only More Color. It came down from above and went through me and into the earth and kept going. there were flames licking me up and down and through me. Like butterflies. The colors of the Bands of light were Pink in the middle, changing but staying in shades of pink. See Don Juan's description of the Great Bands of Emanation. It felt like love. Don Juan said in his description that the religious man would say that the Great Bands were the love of God and that the man of knowledge and the religious man were really saying the same thing.
The flames were a "glimse" of what was to come.
The Third baptism is Fire. For me it was while I was in deep meditation. An Energy came down from high above and my feet began to heat up. A sound started building in my head and both heat and sound grew as the heat traveled up my legs. It got so hot and the sound so loud that I knew that if I did not get out of my body one or the other the heat (burn me up) or the sound (tear me apart) would destroy me. I got out of my body through the top of my head and was grabbed and pulled up at great speed to a very high place. I was without a body spread out in an ocean of bluish white liquid lightening. Like a lightning bolt but not a bolt, an ocean that went in every direction forever.
The sound was tremendous but after getting myself calmed, it became ecstasy. I was feeling what it was feeling.
This was a glimse of what was to come. This actually happened First, before the Coat experience. This confused me for so long. It was the beginning of a PROCESS that has been working within me ever since.
The Baptism is ONE. The word formed by the three letters, Mem, Aleph and Shin is FIRE.
Baptism is a cleansing of wrong thinking. It is the process by which we are enabled to SEE REALITY.
I am beginning to experience the Clarity which is the Third Attention.




Bob

[Bob May]

Hi All,

Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mt 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mt 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Mt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mr 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
What is this key to "all parables" that Jesus is speaking of? Is it the few keys to the symbols of his parable that he gives his disciples? No, it can't be there are not enough there to be the keys to all of His parables, let alone "All Parables."
He must mean something else.
The "Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven" is Allegory Itself. That is what he is showing them.
In the woodcut above is a Mystic. Always looking behind the scenes to see what is really taking place. What is really being said. Never letting his eyes and attention rest on the "appearance of things."
Searching for why God "said this",.. what did He mean by this.
Whether in Scripture or the world around us we should look for the Allegory. Not looking at the symbol alone but at the Reality that the symbol points to. Because whether we are speaking of the bible itself or the very universe around us,.. It was all fashoned by the Word of God and allegory is a tool that is used when the creating with words.
It makes a much bigger impact when the answer of what is being symbolised by the symbol is given.
As Jesus gave the answers to the disciples, ..And continues to give them to his disciples today.
Unto him that hath shall more be given...use it or lose it.

Bob


Hi All,

Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mt 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mt 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Mt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mr 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
What is this key to "all parables" that Jesus is speaking of? Is it the few keys to the symbols of his parable that he gives his disciples? No, it can't be there are not enough there to be the keys to all of His parables, let alone "All Parables."
He must mean something else.
The "Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven" is Allegory Itself. That is what he is showing them.
In the woodcut above is a Mystic. Always looking behind the scenes to see what is really taking place. What is really being said. Never letting his eyes and attention rest on the "appearance of things."
Searching for why God "said this",.. what did He mean by this.
Whether in Scripture or the world around us we should look for the Allegory. Not looking at the symbol alone but at the Reality that the symbol points to. Because whether we are speaking of the bible itself or the very universe around us,.. It was all fashoned by the Word of God and allegory is a tool that is used when the creating with words.
It makes a much bigger impact when the answer of what is being symbolised by the symbol is given.
As Jesus gave the answers to the disciples, ..And continues to give them to his disciples today.
Unto him that hath shall more be given...use it or lose it.

Bob



Hi All,

Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mt 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mt 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mt 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Mt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mr 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
What is this key to "all parables" that Jesus is speaking of? Is it the few keys to the symbols of his parable that he gives his disciples? No, it can't be there are not enough there to be the keys to all of His parables, let alone "All Parables."
He must mean something else.
The "Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven" is Allegory Itself. That is what he is showing them.
In the woodcut above is a Mystic. Always looking behind the scenes to see what is really taking place. What is really being said. Never letting his eyes and attention rest on the "appearance of things."
Searching for why God "said this",.. what did He mean by this.
Whether in Scripture or the world around us we should look for the Allegory. Not looking at the symbol alone but at the Reality that the symbol points to. Because whether we are speaking of the bible itself or the very universe around us,.. It was all fashoned by the Word of God and allegory is a tool that is used when the creating with words.
It makes a much bigger impact when the answer of what is being symbolised by the symbol is given.
As Jesus gave the answers to the disciples, ..And continues to give them to his disciples today.
Unto him that hath shall more be given...use it or lose it.



Bob

[Bob May]

Ancient Hebrew scholars said the bible was written on four distinct levels.
Literal
Implied
Allegorical
Mystical
We all know what Literal is and we can see the problems involved in a strictly literal interpretation as evidenced by the arguments of both Creationists and Evolutionists. Both base their arguments upon a literal translation of the Creation story and both get real silly trying to prove their particular side of the argument.
The Implied meaning is not much deeper but we can learn much from it from it. Jesus was called the "carpenter's son", implying he could not have possibly been the Messiach being they knew who he was and where he came from. That is their implied meaning.
The Allegorical meanings of Scripture is a bit harder to find, but by no means impossible. It is rare to find a church that teaches this. Jesus gave some of the meanings of symbols in his Parable of the Sower. Some are to be found, for instance, in the names of the sons of Jacob/Israel by their mothers
at the moment of birth. The Allegorical interpretation "bleeds over" into the Mystical interpretation as evidenced by Jesus saying that he was giving his disciples the "Mysteries" of the Kingdom when he gave them the keys to the meanings of the Parable of the Sower.
The Mystical interpretation of Scripture goes further though. I am beginning to see what that is and it is being confirmed to me in many ways.
In a word, the Mystical interpretation of Scriptures is God Speaking to us. The Mystical interpretation of Scripture and the world around us is NOT interpretation at all.

52) His disciples said to Him, "Twenty-four prophets spoke in
Israel, and all of them spoke in You."
He said to them, "You have omitted the one living in your
presence and have spoken (only) of the dead."
We may have "Entered" the Kingdom of God at being born from above but do we "See" it? Beginning to See the Kingdom is beginning to See that we are his Disciples. And just as his disciples were taught one on one, and just as Jesus was taught one on one from the Father, so are we.
This is our Inheritance. We are fellow heirs with him.
Awareness is the inheritance of the saints and the awareness of Jesus was summed up in the phrase, "I and the Father are one."
I'll get into more detail.



Bob

[Bob May]

Did Jesus know who he was from the beginning of his life here on earth?
Probably. But his life as shown in scripture shows a pattern.
He was already learning from the Father as shown by his questions and answers to the learned men when he was just twelve years old. Then, the next thing we see, he is being baptized by John in the river Jordan.
Now the Jordan is the border between following our own inclinations and the land "flowing with milk and honey."
So what was the pattern there for? It was for us who were to follow him. If the bible was just a historical story of the life of Jesus, it would not be of much use to us. No, it is a pattern of our spiritual awakening that we use to see where we are, spiritually.
Until the Bible begins to speak to us it is little more than a history book.
It begins to speak to us when we "find ourselves" in the stories of the Old Testament and the life of Jesus. A map at the mall is of little use without an arrow that says "You Are Here."
Paul was not merely being poetic when he called the OT scriptures the "Oracles of God." He meant it exactly as he said it. Oracles speak directly to the person seeking guidance from the oracle.
When Jesus was baptised he went immediately into the wilderness to be tempted.
As soon as he came out the very first thing he did was to "Find Himself" in the scriptures of Isaiah. He stood up in the synagog and read it and sat back down and said, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
Heb 8:5 "..as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount."
When Jesus said "follow me" he was not making a request. He was commanding a thing that would be accomplished whether we are aware of it or not. Our lives follow the life of Jesus. The pattern of his life is the pattern of ours when we begin our spiritual journey.
"On the mount", (a high place in consciousness) where the pattern is shown to us, is the moment we see,... that moment we become aware that we are "in the book", so to speak.
The bible was not just written for us, it was written about us.
As we can see that the bible chronicles the life of the Son of God, so does it chronicle our lives as Sons of God.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
1jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
To be fellow heirs is to be "equal."
To be "as he is" in this world is to be "equal."
In the Hebrew culture of those days to be a son is to be "equal" with the father.



Bob

[Bob May]

Jesus said to the Pharisees on a certain occasion, that if his disciples would hold their peace the very rocks would immediately cry out.
He saw in the raven, who neither sowed nor reaped, yet was provided for by God, the perfect illustration of God's Grace. God's Grace which was hidden from their view because of human habit of looking at the do's and don't of the law while missing the weightier matters such as justice and mercy.
He saw it as a sign when his disciples told him a couple of Greeks had asked to speak with him. He knew the time had come for the Crucifixion.
If we are told to "follow him," that, of necessity, means we are to see things the way he saw them.
The greatest revelation in the bible is coming to an awareness of Grace. I know there are those on this forum who have.
Next we hold on to that for the rest of our lives, studying to show ourselves approved. Not seeking God's approval but to show ourselves approved. That is the reason for study. To become established in Grace. So that it is completely unshakeable. Because if we are not Established in Grace doubt enters as to our worthiness.
But their is another step. What do we do after an awareness of Grace?
I am beginning to see that it is that we are to come to a full realisation of what it means to be Sons of God.
Here we are beginning to move from the third level of Allegory, into the forth level of God actually speaking to us. This does not mean you forget either the Allegory or the Grace.
You mentioned courage. I (and a small group) were basically thrown or driven out of a church many years ago for speaking of Grace as the way to salvation rather than the law. That church was our lives. I had attended for 14 years and learned much there of "deeper" things.
But we were certain, and still are, that we were led by the Spirit to say the things we said and to finally leave. We were astounded at the amount of signs, synchronicities and Scripture we were surrounded by as we made our case and finally left. It took no courage. It was amazing to watch.
I am beginning to see things a bit deeper yet, recently. My question has been how much do I share?
My answer came this morning while reading the Gospel of Thomas.
33) Jesus said, "Preach from your housetops that which you will
hear in your ear {(and) in the other ear}. For no one lights a
lamp and puts it under a bushel, nor does he put it in a hidden
place, but rather he sets it on a lampstand so that everyone who
enters and leaves will see its light."
In the commentary it was pointed out that in the ear implies hidden knowledge. I had missed this. It is true, and , in fact that is one of the meanings of the word Qabalah. From mouth to ear.
Also what I missed was that it is Jesus who lights the lamps. We are the lamps. So, what we learn from him secretly we are to share openly.
This is how it works. The Spirit which knows better than us what we need, puts a question in our ear.
The answer jumps out at us from Scripture or the world around us or both and we get confirmation of that which we needed to know. Even if we didn't know we needed it or were too stupid to ask the question.
The three witnesses in earth the Spirit, the Water and the Blood.
Just as Jesus, when he was here in this world, got confirmation of his sonship by the witness of the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, the three that bear record from heaven, so do we by the three that bear witness on earth.
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
What do we care what people think when we are hearing from God.
1jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
The more we pay attention, the more these things happen. When leaving my old church we got so many reaffirmations that we began to refer to it as the "Flood."
I believe that is actually what it was/is. Noah's ark is an allegory for the flood of the baptism of water, which is one of three aspects of the One Baptism.
It says the fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were opened. In another place it says,
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Am I going back under the law??? No the tithe, 1/10 is that which returns to God. That is US. Not a monetary obligation.
Anyway thanks for the reply. I will write what I am finding on the three aspects of Baptism soon. I have to get ready for work now.
Bob

[Bob May]

Mt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Petros, "a detached stone or boulder," or a stone that might be thrown or easily moved.
Jesus calls Simon "Petros" after Simon/Peter gets a revelation from Above of who Jesus was. Then he said upon this Rock I will build my church.
athColics take this as evidence that the Apostle has th keys to heaven etc.
This is wrong. The Rock (singular) is made up of smaller stones which have been detached.
It is these smaller stones/revelations that the church is built up of. But it is all leading to the One Revelation, Petra, the Rock, Jesus Christ.
When Jesus said upon this rock he was speaking about the revelation that came down on Peter.
Something had come down on Peter as "clear as crystal."

Ge 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
Ge 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
Ge 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
Ge 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Ge 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Ge 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Ge 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
Ge 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.
Ge 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
Here we see another story of Revelation or Something coming down from above, (which by the way is the definition of Grace; A gift, influx from the Divine or God or above the abyss.)
Why does it state that Jacob used the "stones" (plural) for his pillow and then set up the "Stone" (singular) that he had used for his pillows and set IT (singular) up for a pillar?
Here Jacob has a revelation that "The Lord is in this place and I knew it not." Knowing without having known my teacher used to say. That was his definition of Wisdom. That which comes down from above. In that he said "surely" the lord is in this place,.. It was again as "clear as crystal" to him.
Are we seeing a pattern here?
There is more.
Jesus said that everything he said and all of the workks he did he got from the Father. He also told us to "follow him", and the things I do you can do also because I go to the Father. He also said that if we saw him we had seen the Father. So, if Jesus is revealed to us, so is the Father.
Re 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Re 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
The book is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Not Revelations as it is sometimes named.
It begins with the sentence;
Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants ...
So was this book John's experience of who Jesus was being revealed to him?
Or was it Jesus' experience of who HE was being revealed to him (Jesus) and then in turn shared with both John and us?
Or was it both???
And if we are one with Jesus and the Father and the Son and the Spirit have made their "abode" in us, does it really matter???
Is not this the ONE Stone of Revelation we are building with the little stones???
Are we seeing a pattern here?
Bob

[Jessicar.sorcery]

Bob:
I don't know exactly how I will go about this but I have been having
some real revelations about what has happened to me in the past and what
is happening now. I am copying this from the third attention thread
because it is what is happening to me now. It's all beginning to come
together.
The pieces of the puzzle of my life are falling into place.
I can feel your sense of passion and movement here---and when I have that feeling myself, there's not much that can top it!
I've always loved the metaphor of puzzle pieces.  I know you're talking about fire here but "pieces of the puzzle" struck me first.  My parents are very fond of telling me the story of when I was two years old.  I would take the puzzle, turn it over, and put it together upside down.  They were amazed.  Why didn't I just put the puzzle together with the image top-up?  When I look back at this (from a sorcerer's eye) I feel as though as a two year old I was in touch with mystery and the unknown as many infants and toddlers are and how I got in touch with the nagual was to ignore the images on the "correct" side of the puzzle and seek to put it together kinesthetically and sensually--the way it "felt" to me.  That's the same wonder I feel as I read your words here.

[Bob May]

Jessicar wrote:
Bob:
I don't know exactly how I will go about this but I have been having some real revelations about what has happened to me in the past and what is happening now. I am copying this from the third attention thread because it is what is happening to me now. It's all beginning to come together.
The pieces of the puzzle of my life are falling into place.
I can feel your sense of passion and movement here---and when I have that feeling myself, there's not much that can top it!
I've always loved the metaphor of puzzle pieces.  I know you're talking about fire here but "pieces of the puzzle" struck me first.  My parents are very fond of telling me the story of when I was two years old.  I would take the puzzle, turn it over, and put it together upside down.  They were amazed.  Why didn't I just put the puzzle together with the image top-up?  When I look back at this (from a sorcerer's eye) I feel as though as a two year old I was in touch with mystery and the unknown as many infants and toddlers are and how I got in touch with the nagual was to ignore the images on the "correct" side of the puzzle and seek to put it together kinesthetically and sensually--the way it "felt" to me.  That's the same wonder I feel as I read your words here.  

Hi Jessicar,
And maybe that is one reason Jesus said that unless we become as little children we cannot enter the Kingdom.
I appreciate your response. Sometimes I feel surrounded by "parents fondly telling me.." as you said. While I am amazed that no one else is seeing what I am seeing.
I've been getting pieces for many years now. "Knowing without having known", my teacher used to call it...his definition for Wisdom.
Now, it seems that I am getting glimses of the entire puzzle,...(Understanding is, I believe, the correct term for this phenomena)... Or at least large sections of the puzzle.
Again, I appreciate your response. The silence is deafening lately.
The puzzle is an appropriate analogy.
I used "fire" because one of the three aspects of Baptism is fire and taking the three aspects by the letters signifying each, Mem, Aleph and Shin in Hebrew spells fire. It ws the Baptism that Jesus said he was in the process of being baptised with and that he promised John and his brother James (the sons of Thunder) that they would go through. Lo and Behold, John later wrote the book named The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
I believe this to be a description of John's Baptism of Fire.
While half of the the Christian wotrld is looking back to 33-70 AD for the end times, the other half are looking to some future event at some as yet unknown date.
Both are missing what is right in front of them.
http://www.apostasynow.com/topics/trib/pretrib08.html
Above is a link to a vision/awareness of a 16 year old girl in 19th century Scotland. Her desciption is very short, but there are some commentaries by some "scholars". Hers is the only revelation on the subject that I have read that makes any sense.
They, of course, put her in a convent. Good way to shut people off from influencing others, and to shut them up.

[Guest]

Bob,
I'm still wondering if you have checked out any of the Kundalini awakening sites, , groups, forums etc. (Mystress Angelique and Susan Carlson have a lot of great info as does the late Dr GlennMorriss)
You say you feel like nobody understands or hears and you don't seem to have found a lot of like experiences, but when I was at the K groups, people were shouting to the rooftops about these types of things. 
Maybe I am wrong and your experience isn't Kundalini related but it sure sounds like it, to me especially when you speak of the fire.  However, you do put a different spin on it, that as a non-religious person I find very interesting. 
While I am amazed that no one else is seeing what I am seeing.
I've
been getting pieces for many years now. "Knowing without having known",

Again, I appreciate your response. The silence is deafening lately.

I used "fire" because one of the three aspects of Baptism is fire

[Bob May]

Enchantra wrote:
Bob,
I'm still wondering if you have checked out any of the Kundalini awakening sites, , groups, forums etc. (Mystress Angelique and Susan Carlson have a lot of great info as does the late Dr GlennMorriss)
You say you feel like nobody understands or hears and you don't seem to have found a lot of like experiences, but when I was at the K groups, people were shouting to the rooftops about these types of things. 
Maybe I am wrong and your experience isn't Kundalini related but it sure sounds like it, to me especially when you speak of the fire.  However, you do put a different spin on it, that as a non-religious person I find very interesting. 
While I am amazed that no one else is seeing what I am seeing.
I've been getting pieces for many years now. "Knowing without having known",
Again, I appreciate your response. The silence is deafening lately.

I used "fire" because one of the three aspects of Baptism is fire

Hi Enchantra,
I believe I did run across Sister Angelique's site a while back. I will look at the others, thanks.
I have no doubt that it is Kundalini or the Baptism of Fire as the Bible puts it. My teacher told me as much years ago and he had mastered it as far as being able to touch with that force/power and use it for many miracle healings.
I have had many experiences and visions over the years but what is more important is the over-all awareness that has been growing  as a result.
That is what I am trying to convey. I believe it is the difference between "seeing" the Kingdom and "entering" the Kingdom.
Nothing religious about it. Just a different system of terminology.
I was frequenting a Christian forum and the response that I get is similar to your analogy. They are the parents telling me I am doing the puzzle wrong, and yet they know nothing of the puzzle and don't even know there is something called Baptism other than a ceremony that they do, let alone three aspects to it.
My meditations are much better than they were a few years back with very little of the negative side effects now.
My teacher likened it to radiation sickness or the flu in that it had to run it's course.
I think that maybe it has. Not that it is finished with me, but that the negative symptoms are not interfering with my progress at the moment.
You cannot put new wine into old bottles lest both the wine and the bottle will be lost.
The body must be gradually changed in order to contain the new Spirit without being destroyed. 
Then the awareness can continue to grow.
Awareness has always been the important thing. Visions and other phenomena come and go. What they mean has always been the important thing.
Sometimes it takes many years to understand what an experience means. My teacher used to tell me to stop trying to figure things out and that we are sometimes given something way beyond our abilities. But that the answer will come in time. That is what seems to be happening now.
Thanks for the interest.

[Bob May]

KUNDALINI SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS
by El Collie

Many individuals whose Kundalini has been unexpectedly unleashed DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, and the prevailing social ignorance about this multidimensional transformative process makes it hard to find medical or alternative health practitioners or spiritual advisors who recognize the symptoms, particularly when they are strongly physical. Many people know that the risen Kundalini flings open gates to all sorts of mystical, paranormal and magical vistas but few realize it can also dramatically impact the body. A large percentage of our old Shared Transformation newsletter subscribers reported long bouts of strange illness as well as radical mental, emotional, interpersonal, psychic, spiritual and lifestyle changes. Over and again we hear stories of frustrating, sometimes desperate visits to doctors, healers, counselors, etc. who neither understood nor were able to help with the myriad pains and problems catalyzed by raging Kundalini.


Click here -- This letter is typical of the hundreds we receive from people struggling with strange symptoms and Kundalini illnesses:


The following are common manifestations of the risen Kundalini:

Muscle twitches, cramps or spasms.
 
Energy rushes or immense electricity circulating the body
 
Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations
 
Intense heat or cold
 
Involuntary bodily movements (occur more often during meditation, rest or sleep): jerking, tremors, shaking; feeling an inner force pushing one into postures or moving one's body in unusual ways.  (May be misdiagnosed as epilepsy, restless legs syndrome (RLS), or PLMD.)
 
Alterations in eating and sleeping patterns
 
Episodes of extreme hyperactivity or, conversely, overwhelming fatigue (some CFS victims are experiencing Kundalini awakening)
 
Intensified or diminished sexual desires
 
Headaches, pressures within the skull
 
Racing heartbeat, pains in the chest
 
Digestive system problems
 
Numbness or pain in the limbs (particularly the left foot and leg)
 
Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck (Many cases of FMS are Kundalini-related.)
 
Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression
 
Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) -- are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs
 
Hearing an inner sound or sounds, classically described as a flute, drum, waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also sound like roaring, whooshing, or thunderous noises or like ringing in the ears.
 
Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating
 
Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity)
 
Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.
 
Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion
 
Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers
 
Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.
 
Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)
 

Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness




Some people have told us they find the concept of "Kundalini" foreign and prefer to simply call this their "awakening," which is fine with us. But for most who contact us, the Kundalini explanation provides an important framework with which to accept and work with their experiences. We each have a unique way of interpreting, honoring and describing our spiritual wisdom. I do not believe there is only one right way to know or express the truth. Far more important, I believe, is to have an open heart and to be faithful to our own path, wherever it may lead.

We have also been asked why we do not put more emphasis on union with the Divine and God-realization, which are very much central to spiritual awakening. Since everyone experiences and interprets their mystical experiences differently and very personally, to make sure no one will feel excluded, we just speak of "awakening consciousness" or "transcendent states" on the ST Web pages. In our Shared Transformation newsletter, individuals with variant religious beliefs are welcome to (and DO) tell about their experiences of this sort. Some speak of God, Christ, Goddess, the Holy One, Spirit, or simply a magnificent Whole in which we all partake.

Also, for some people, profound spiritual realizations do not occur until months or years after the other signs and symptoms. Individuals who are having experiences of an obvious spiritual nature are usually more able to integrate and benefit from the process, regardless of how they may label it. But those who experience what seems to be illness or weird psychic phenomena often are very alarmed until they understand that they are not sick or crazy. And even the enlightening and beautiful experiences can be so powerful that people doubt their sanity. This is why the information and validation we offer through Shared Transformation is so valuable.

[Guest]

Bob May wrote:
I was frequenting a Christian forum and the response that I get is similar to your analogy. They are the parents telling me I am doing the puzzle wrong, and yet they know nothing of the puzzle and don't even know there is something called Baptism other than a ceremony that they do, let alone three aspects to it.
For clarification, I am not telling you that you are doing anything wrong.  You expressed a desire to be heard and understood, so I was trying to help you find places that might be more receptive to your experiences.

[Bob May]

Hi Enchantra, 
""Googling the term kundalini alone will bring up over 766,000 references as of this writing in 2005. When I first began to explore the internet about kundalini in 1996 I could only find less than 10 references to kundalini. Some of those references pointed to the same spot. The challenge now is learning to discern the wheat from the chaff for the Internet is full of dilettantes, wannabes, and false teachers of the science of kundalini. Like my friend Daniel tells me, “Ask four rabbis a question and you will get five opinions.” This is the same situation when you ask people about kundalini. It is even more tragic and comical if you ask people who are minimally educated about kundalini process.""
This is a quote from Susan Carson's website.
You can see the problem here. It has always been this way. My teacher had a spontaneous awakening in 1974. Gopi Kryshna did in 1939. Both were at a complete loss to find answers. Both were almost killed by the ordeal.
Both opened it the same way. With John it was the "Point" meditation, with Gopi, the "Thousand Petaled Lotus." Same meditation.
I also touched on it around 1980, doing the same meditation, but not to the extent of these two.
It does not go away, it is something that has to be touched and backed off from. To learn how to open ourselves and shut down is the way of the Qabala. My teacher was able to master it and live with it and make use of it. Gopi Kryshna never did. He tried a second time and was hovering between life and death for months again.
We are told to follow Jesus. He hung suspended above the "Place of the Skull," (Golgotha) when he was crucified. That is a perfect description of the "Point" meditation or "Thousand Pedaled Lotus."
I have one teacher now. Jesus. And to change my system of knowledge to one that relies on teachers who are teaching what they have not experienced is worse than folly. The "Holy" men that cmae to help Gopi Krishna when he needed help could not remain in the same house with him without becoming deathly ill.
The Baptism of Fire is not a matter of playing with sexual energies flowing in the body and chakra energies, etc. Though they play a part in the changing of the body.
The energy comes from above. It is the Spirit of God in the third aspect which is Fire. I have read a lot of what is on the Net and one thing is certain.
No one completely agrees on what is happening here. So who do I trust???
I have been and will be shown what is needed as needed or I won't.
As I said before, Jesus said, "follow me." He was lead by the Spirit. So will I be.
By the way, there was a guy from New Jersey who a friend of mine told me about. He supposedly was measured as having 600 volts running between his hands. (My teacher was measured at Dakin labs as having 400 volts, I think)
I would be interested in reading his story if you happen to run across it.
Thanks again,

[Guest]

Bob, those teachers I mentioned, i have worked with personally and ll have a lot of kn owledge
And understanding which comes from direct experience.
Though i see now you are not looking for that, sorry.

[Guest]

Whoa!  Sorry for that messy last post, I typed it on my phone and can't edit!  grr.  lol

[Guest]

Enchantra wrote:Bob, those teachers I mentioned, i have worked with personally and ll have a lot of knowledge
And understanding which comes from direct experience.
Though i see now you are not looking for that, sorry.I was responding to this part of your post:

Bob May wrote:
I have one teacher now. Jesus. And to change my system of knowledge to
one that relies on teachers who are teaching what they have not
experienced is worse than folly.I am curious also Bob, if your only teacher is Jesus, how you found yourself on a Toltec-Sorcery forum...

[Bob May]

Enchantra wrote:
Enchantra wrote:
Bob, those teachers I mentioned, i have worked with personally and ll have a lot of knowledge And understanding which comes from direct experience. Though i see now you are not looking for that, sorry.I was responding to this part of your post:

Bob May wrote:
I have one teacher now. Jesus. And to change my system of knowledge to one that relies on teachers who are teaching what they have not experienced is worse than folly.I am curious also Bob, if your only teacher is Jesus, how you found yourself on a Toltec-Sorcery forum...

I may have sounded a bit harsh. My point is that there are so many teachers out there (as stated by Susan Carson) only 10 hits on the Kundalini in 1996 and 766,000 in 2005. How can anyone make heads or tails out of that? Not that I cannot learn from others, but my own personal experiences are all I can truly know are real. And that with confirmation from the Spirit. Spirit, water and blood. Three bearing witness in earth. 
The symtoms listed above are accurate from my own experience. If I can verify information by my own experience or if I find it in scripture as the example I gave above of the "Place of the Skull" equating to both the "Point" meditation and the "Thousand Petaled Lotus" and also my own, my teacher's and Gopi Krishna's experiences, I can be pretty safe in assuming it is real information.
One thing almost all of the Kundalini information I've run across is the idea that the energy is locked up in a coiled serpent in the area of the tailbone.
True as far as it goes, but the real source is from above. That, again, can be confirmed.
The reason I am here is because I began my spiritual studies with the Castaneda books and had some real live experiences because of those studies and practices. Also because here I can relate experiences that I have had without being thought of as some kind of weirdo. Most Christian organizations tend to be very limited in their outlooks.
My strange ideas have always been welcomed here.
My teacher is dead. But there is really only one teacher and all are disciples. That is the promise from the Old Testament prophecies "They shall all be taught of God." He can teach us through Scriptures, or other people or circumstance or direct knowing. And this, in a nutshell, is my frustration lately. Why don't people hear this? Especially Christians!

[Guest]

I have been experiencing a great increase in some of the Kundalini awakening symptoms over the past few weeks.   I just want to highlight some of them that are prominent for me at the moment and wonder if anyone else is experience an increase or expansion of any of these symptoms/phenom, right now, too.
For me, it's been a couple of years since I had any noticeable increase - at least on a semi-permanent basis. 

KUNDALINI SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS
by El Collie





Click here -- This letter is typical of the hundreds we receive from people struggling with strange symptoms and Kundalini illnesses:


The following are common manifestations of the risen Kundalini:

 
Energy rushes or immense electricity circulating the body
 
Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations
 
Intense heat or cold
 

 
Headaches, pressures within the skull
 
Racing heartbeat, pains in the chest
 
Digestive system problems
 
Numbness or pain in the limbs (particularly the left foot and leg)
 
Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck (Many cases of FMS are Kundalini-related.)
 
Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression
 
Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) -- are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs
 
Hearing an inner sound or sounds, classically described as a
flute, drum, waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also
sound like roaring, whooshing, or thunderous noises or like ringing in
the ears.
 
Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating
 
Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness;
spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's
prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts
of psychosis or self-grandiosity)
 
Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.
 
Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion
 
Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body
experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras
and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or
visions; healing powers
 
Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.
 
Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's
own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite
awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)
 
Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness

[Bob May]

Enchantra wrote:
I have been experiencing a great increase in some of the Kundalini awakening symptoms over the past few weeks.   I just want to highlight some of them that are prominent for me at the moment and wonder if anyone else is experience an increase or expansion of any of these symptoms/phenom, right now, too.
For me, it's been a couple of years since I had any noticeable increase - at least on a semi-permanent basis. 



KUNDALINI SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS
by El Collie





Click here -- This letter is typical of the hundreds we receive from people struggling with strange symptoms and Kundalini illnesses:


The following are common manifestations of the risen Kundalini:


 
Energy rushes or immense electricity circulating the body
 
Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations
 
Intense heat or cold
 

 
Headaches, pressures within the skull
 
Racing heartbeat, pains in the chest
 
Digestive system problems
 
Numbness or pain in the limbs (particularly the left foot and leg)
 
Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck (Many cases of FMS are Kundalini-related.)
 
Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression
 
Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) -- are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs
 
Hearing an inner sound or sounds, classically described as a flute, drum, waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also sound like roaring, whooshing, or thunderous noises or like ringing in the ears.
 
Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating
 
Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity)
 
Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.
 
Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion
 
Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers
 
Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.
 
Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)
 

Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness

Hi Enchantra,
I would say I am experiencing the same things as you and would add some on the end of the list.

[*]
[*]
[*]
[*]Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity)
 
[*]Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.
 
[*]Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion
 
[*]Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers
 
[*]Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.
 
[*]Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)
 

Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness Part of this has to do with that I am meditating again. About 1to 1 1/2 hours most days. And I am doing mostly the "Point" meditation or the "Thousand Pedaled Lotus" as it is known in the Eastern traditions. 
The sounds you said you are experiencing I have always likened to bacon frying in the pan or wind in the leaves, etc.,
I have heard that sound preceding spiritual experiences or when just thinking of or talking about spiritual things with friends.
To follow that sound while meditating or even while in normal waking consciousness, while at the same time paying attention to the vibration in your body can lead to amazing things. I once followed it up into an ocean of blue-white liquid lightning and it was the beginning of the Kundalini experience.
I have noticed lately that I have been getting more on the Understanding side of revelations. Also the Wisdom side and along with those, I have been feeling a lot more sensations in both sides of my head and face. Both during meditations and in normal consciousness which would figure according to Qabalah. It is like honey is being poured over and through my head and face in those places.

[Guest]

Bob May wrote:I would say I am experiencing the same things as you and would add some on the end of the list.

[*]

[*]

[*]
Part of this has to do with that I am meditating again. About 1to 1 1/2 hours most days. And I am doing mostly the "Point" meditation or the "Thousand Pedaled Lotus" as it is known in the Eastern traditions. 
The sounds you said you are experiencing I have always likened to bacon frying in the pan or wind in the leaves, etc.,
I have heard that sound preceding spiritual experiences or when just thinking of or talking about spiritual things with friends.
To follow that sound while meditating or even while in normal waking consciousness, while at the same time paying attention to the vibration in your body can lead to amazing things. I once followed it up into an ocean of blue-white liquid lightning and it was the beginning of the Kundalini experience.
I have noticed lately that I have been getting more on the Understanding side of revelations. Also the Wisdom side and along with those, I have been feeling a lot more sensations in both sides of my head and face. Both during meditations and in normal consciousness which would figure according to Qabalah. It is like honey is being poured over and through my head and face in those place

Bob, the sounds at the moment are anything from, high pitched crickets in mostly my left ear, to buzzing, to humming, to crackling, to an almost annoyingly loud electric whizzing that is also accompanied by a buzzing vibration in my teeth! 
I've had these sounds occurr for quite a few years, but never quite with the intensity as they are now.  Also never as incessantly, either.
I can't really attribute my enhanced symptoms to anything that I am aware of, not meditating any more than usual (not enough) or doing anything out of the ordinary as regards my 'spiritual' practise.   It does, however seem to be a time of acceleration for a lot of people I know, particularly those with already wakened Kundalini energy.
Thanks for your sharings.

[Guest]

I should also mention my heightened sense of smell lately.  Not as cool as it sounds.  Ugh.  If I was a Superhero, this is one super power I would not wish to have!