Wolf call

[glance left]

Anyway, Rosygyro



Are you being aloof? Do you want to communicate something here, or just present your esotericism in a way that engenders fascination? Are you being considerate? What is this thread about? Is it important to you that its important to someone else...the one who started it?



I'm sure you've got gifts to give...wisdom. Your detached, that's clear...and in touch with what's beyond many...but how can you bring your heaven to earth? Is there room for reciprocity in your delivery? Or are we to come to you? Is that what you want? If so, why?



Where's your forebearance in your presence here?

[rosygyro]

It is pure sadism..and the overpowering of anothers mind!
If a person who had been hypnotised wished to RECAPITULATE..
then how would he get back that moment of consiousness on stage!
I imagine that even if he could isolate his mind at that time it would be crammed against a rock somewhere! a dark jewel!
its another horrible trick.. but it is the hypnotised choice to give their power away for a moment.
I suppose though to the right seeker..
they could deliberatly be hypnotised with the intent to at a later time plot the deeper nature of hypnosis itself!
Paranoia- At one time i had a weird selection of friends from different groups of thr wheel as i tried to discover the medicine wheel itself through contrasting groups of different selective styles.
Sometimes i would really worry that the reason i had no money was becuase one of them was a hypnotist.. and that every week i would just go and knock on his door and give him 20....
I figure that there are cheap hypnotists like this.. collecting money from a few people.. all the time..not to mention the sexual abuse that goes on!
These people do not suffer from self observation...
imagine your worst embarrassing nightmare.. and understand that a hypnotist unmasked.. feels like that even when alone...
utterly shamefull... and so their awarness keeps itself hidden through relying on pureley human social self protection.
they have never granted a quarter>

[rosygyro]

You are right of course..
I am so dissapointed by the www.. and its nagualism forums..
I wonder if anything is real!
I am sorry for not forebearing regarding this thread..I am unable to help myself when it comes to expressing..
I cannot remeber when i started banging my head against the wall.. but eventually it became addictive and now i cant stop!

[glance left]

"now i cant stop!"



Yeah but....you just did. You stopped to talk to me Hello!



I understand your disappointment. But there's some who are truly on the verge of extending beyond themselves. I'm sure you see that. Be heaven on earth for those. The land lubbers flirting with the edge of the cliff. Some of us are starting to catch some air. I've seen it first hand.



I'll leave you alone. Thanks for your consideration, though

[rosygyro]

well now that the other thread has started please talk to me of

DREAM HACKING

ENERGETIC ATTATCHMENT IN DREAMING

SAFEGUARDS against overstepping the mark.. forebearance in dreaming etc..



i have made some serious eneregtci points regarding holding back from dreaming..

and although i agree that there are frontiers of dreaming.. and indeed benchmarks of dreaming..

I myself holdback..



This all stems from pre millenium 1998 dreaming forum where i bumped into a few guys talking about dream rape..

and how they deliberatly abused others in dreams...



That night in dreaming i was stuck horrified as i watched an example of such an attack...

i swore to operate forebearance in the dream.. and sacrificed my own dreaming reseacrh in order to close certain possibilities!

I dont dream as an act of warriorship..

sometimes those of you who do are too keen to hollow out some space..

too keen to get some air and prod the ceiling with antlers.

too keen to see something else before the thing they run from (SLEEP)



skim over what ive said..



when group dreaming is basicly gangrape...

i dont care how many dreamcatchers, and feathers you have..

you need to be immpeccable.



MY DREAM DOUBLE should you wish to find it for me..

has THREE VORTICES turning against the flow of ease...



besides considering my dream form is a tiger and not a wolf...we should be happy i speak of not-dreaming!



perhaps the unification of the seven types of dream is within forebearance..

it certainly cant do any harm.

[glance left]

There's no escaping the need for impeccability, no matter where you awareness is. You're dreaming right now...so be impeccable now. Intending to not dream insures nothing...safe-guards nothing. It just defers the inevitable. Hermits try to do this, withdrawing from the world lest the world infect them. The problem simply reorganizes and shrinks to fit within their little cave...the bugs and the bats they co-habitate with. There is no withdrawing from this challenge. You're up to your eyeballs in it.



It's not about whether or not you dream...it's about the underlying intent. Intent is everything. What's the underlying intent behind "dream hacking", for instance....whether in daily consciousness or at night. What's to be gained by such underhanded tactics? It's ironic you bring this up in particular...in the context of the presumed value of the "intent to not dream"...and how it implies innocence. It's bullshit! I know a certain someone who thinks he's someone pretty special who insisted I find a way for him to hack others' computers...programs...profiles...so he could protect his veneer...his facade...his spell of glamour...and that someone knows exactly who he is and what I'm talking about. He preached the intent to not dream day in and day out. But what of it? What of this dream and the hacking sought for here? It's not the dreaming that's the problem....its the dreamer. We need to stop deferring responsibility.

[glance left]

"MY DREAM DOUBLE should you wish to find it for me..

has THREE VORTICES turning against the flow of ease...



besides considering my dream form is a tiger and not a wolf...we should be happy i speak of not-dreaming!"



Are you bragging now? Is this some kind of threat? If so, then what happens in dreaming is not your issue my friend. It's the impulse behind this very post right here. Apply your warrioship to your center of gravity...i.e. the moment you are standing in.

[rosygyro]

"glance left"
Of course its not a threat..
Apparently- our worlds biggest threat to freedom is energetci attachment.
although some people escape it as an act of will or personal freedom the great bulk of humanity is so bound in energetic attacthment as to never escape.
Included in this is the seven types of dreamer.
DRAGON(yakin), WOLF(ekar),LION(yiraf),ELEPHANT(chinac),TIGER(narbet),FOX(shook),BEAR(Cribad)..
They themselves "dream" as a type of RIDDLE as per the age of mankind and its current issues!
deliberate energetic attachment between them is deadly.
Forebearance is a basic artform of awarness.. and the only respectful energy form we can cultivate as individuals as it limits energetci attachment consiously using awarness and strategy.
THEUN MARES (who is dead) often warned of the need to discern ones own dreaming section of awreness..and also warned that the interrelationship of dreamers is a fucking minefield of challenegs and tricks.

[glance left]

It's a minefield, agreed. We're standing in the middle of it. There is no separation between our daily consciousness and our dreaming at night with respect to this, barring the arbitrary conventions we establish to comfort ourselves to the contrary. There is no safe place. No wishing it away or withdrawing from it. The only way is to navigate the minefield like a warrior....i.e. watch your step. Getting your ass kicked per energetic attachments and the consequences that brings? Been there. Answer: cultivate detachment. And watch and see the transformation bloom in dreaming....both at night and during the day. I've seen this very fact manifest via withdrawing from that greedy aforementioned presence. Detaching from my previous need for his verification in spite of all those signals pointing to his particular brand of very specialized predation. I cannot tell you the myriad dreams....clear, lucid, powerful dreams that heralded my breaking free. And that goes for the daily waking dream as well.



Again....the dreaming isn't the issue. It's the underlying intent. And that determines the nature of the minefield we have to navigate. And that is our unavoidable challenge. Our responsibility ultimately.

[glance left]

You can be detached....and still interact. In fact, withdrawing from interaction is really just the contra lateral pole end of attachment, I believe. The result is the same.

[glance left]

I like your term forebearance. I agree with the spirit of it. I just think it can be cultivated amidst all of our interactions....including dreaming. The key is in cultivating quality of awareness....respect....affection....across the board. For some of us more indulgent types....or more arrogant....this might take a long, long time. There is no other way. Just gotta keep getting up and throwing ourselves into the thick of it, renewing our intent again and again.

[rosygyro]

so many frat boys go fror virgins.. it s thing you do!



I suppose the reason why they then leave the girl and head for a fresh one..

is because WHORES are full of so much male energetic backwash that they can give you choice within the KNOWN.

wheras a female who has only had YOU.. only reflects you! and is Not the known but also the unknowable reflection of the nagual!

XOXO appears as pre-or partially pubescent virgin girl...

Not a bucket cunted whore!



dream groups.. or collections of dreamers.. sometimes seem to be just making a whore.. and not really looking at their own reflection in dreaming!

[rosygyro]

its the same with the existing inorganic realms carlos casteneda (who is dead) discovered..
any new world is relative to the one whos intent carves it out of the unknown.
NOT CARVING or NOT DREAMING.. is a method to find the touch or veil of the unknown before blundering into it!
XOXO sometimes appears as a pre-or partially pubescent virgin girl!
Now how am i supposed to meet XOXO.. if you lot are attempting to fly? seemingly having no understanding of forebearance.. which in this instance is literally translated as
dont *** kids!

[glance left]

So what? Sometimes groups of people form gangs....sometimes they form book clubs. You can't draw conclusions about dreaming groups just because you stumbled upon a bunch of assholes

[glance left]

Your mischaracterizing the inorganic world proves my point. Don Juan pointed out that inorganics are like people. Some are assholes....some are more beneficent. cc found a world that reflected his bent of character....so that was his challenge....which was really about facing himself....his own greed.



And what the hell are you talking about in wanting to fly? You're drawing all kinds of absurd conclusions. Judgments. Fixations. I'm sure you've seen some things....maybe even DONE some things, who knows. You might consider that some of what you've seen might reflect something inside yourself. Ill say it again....it's about intent. Perception springs from there

[glance left]

It's funny you mention this XOXO, though. How he? she? manifests himself to dreamers. Brought to mind a dream I'd forgotten about last night. I'm with my wife in our bedroom at night....and she's giving me the bedroom eyes. Of course, I'm game.....always am, pretty much. We start going at it and, right in the heat of the moment, I look down and she transforms, right in front of my face, into a young girl. I jumped up, shocked...appalled...ashamed....now clearly lucid...and the dream went dark as I withdrew. Maybe that was XOXO? If so...he's another one of those assholes you allude to, seems to me. Another mine in the minefield.



And the lesson? Has nothing to do with "don't *** kids" as you so eruditely put forth here. That was never my intent, so what happened there wasn't my responsibility. But my shame...accepting it when it wasn't mine...being emotionally affected by being tricked like that....that was my responsibility. Again, detachment is the key. As mentioned, XOXO's just another mine in the minefield...and that was my appointment in dealing with it, then and there, regardless whether I intended it or not. I accept that. Live and learn. I see the edge of the field is a long way away. Sitting imobilized in fear won't do me any good. Gotta keep moving forward, slowly....carefully. I'm gonna misstep and get burned sometimes....sometimes due to my recklessness or indulgence...sometimes due to inexperience...sometimes just because getting burned is the lesson to learn. So be it. No shame.



I agree, forebearance is important...crucial even. But sticking your head in the sand isn't the same thing.

[messengerpidgeon]

Rosy , what is the rose ?



Time and power .....

perception can converge upon the past placing it within the future , the flow of power I believe spear headed by impeccability to presence . Degenerative blueprints , generative conditions .....Concentric circles , Elixer ? Can you say did the pyramid reach crescendo blended color

[glance left]

"what is the rose"



And one more thing, before I leave this obnoxious affront to NMW's thread...you know? The one who started it this thread? It's not just about detachment...that just creates space. It's also about the "rose" which I saw bloom in liquid fractal luminous splendor right out of the wall I was gazing at couple days ago. It's not hypnotism...abuse of those who aren't conscious enough to know better than to be abused.....and its not withdrawal into isolation because your jaded with humanity. It's about this vast, ever fluctuating, ever renewing display of connectivity that is the ultimate in intelligence manifest...that has pure affection as its impetus which moves it with blazing lines through that empty space, looking for new ways to express itself. So detachment is key...to make space to perceive. But then to have the heart to allow it to be filled with something awesome and beautiful...and then bring something of that to others instead of the dance club schtick. Forebearance is just another part of making that space, I guess thats part of what your saying....withholding from expressing the dark jewels. Ok, that's good. But you gotta get out there..bring some flowers with you, even if they get trampled from time to time. Can't withold. Be the rose

[rosygyro]

I dont see how this energetic thread can be an affront to NMW and "her" thread!



The rose.. isnt a liquid fractal blooming out of your wall! if you see a rose like that it more likeley than not a severed artery on the edge of a dying woman! the fact you see her aura through your wall is just vampiric.

the rose is INTELLIGENT CO-OPERATION..

You will see it like the armies of the 5000 in lord of the rings.. those computer generated battles where millions organise.. every now and then an entire battallion drops off the edge of a cliff to their death! or another group is crushed by a machine as it falls!



The rose as intelligent co-operation is a terrifyingly impersonal contrivance of all people and the machination that allows their existence possible... it can only be viewed indirectly and yet is the key to all seeing...

I say a vision of thousands in battle..and the ruthless machinations of manifecstaion and the impersonal almost programmed nature of death in the four quarters of power.



YOu say.. a sort of sparkly fountain sticking through your wall!



HMMMM!

[rosygyro]

there are fringes.. like your sparkly wall..
a drop of blood contains a lot of informaTION ABOUT LIFE..
but it is not all living people in motion.. on a planet also in motion...
If you wish to see a remant of THEUNS VISION.

SEE THE CHEQUERED BLACK AND WHITE FLOOR
SEE THE YELLOW ROSE APON IT
SEE A DROP OF WATER APON THE ROSE
REFLECTED IN THE DROPLET SEE A MOTH
KNOW THIS DEATH>>>AND KNOW YOU ALONE CANNOT MOVE THE ROSE..
OR EVEN FIND THE BUSH FROM WHICH it was cut......
inherant awarness

[rosygyro]

Unfortunatly i cannot use theuns name or insignia anymore as i am not authorised to..

although i could happilly transcibe my knowledge into the same terms as theuns works..

I can also say them in my own terms which require no copyright argument with the existing "team"

I am unwilling to begin involving myself with theuns works in a POST DEATH OF DRAGON WOLF scenario

as quite realisticly the moment i begin to grapple the rose.. david waters or similar will claim i am unentitled and

i will become energeticly drained and attatched by a huge amount of subsidiary bullshit!

[glance left]

Nice try.



Save your smack for an addict. You see my sleeves aren't rolled up...I'm not sweating...not withdrawing. I don't need your implied knowledge...casting shadows from the light. "See THIS! I SEE IT...DON'T YOU!?" What I see is self evident...I don't need a medium, thanks. But still, I'll say thanks, in genuine, for what of value you offer in your words. There's lots there to consider. As for all that other bullshit...you can keep it. I'm done.

[rosygyro]

I should point out that the rose is a TOOL of seeing which not may people understand..

and that quite realisticly someone dying will bleed out energy of perception through the liminal interface of the rose as they miscompohrehend what is happening, or curse their attacker or foes.

the visions of the rose are not all sacred due to its liminality and NEXUS quality..

seeing someone bleeding to death as rose..

or seeing someone drowning as a rose..

or seeing a child born as a rose..

all are possible..

but the art of intellgient co-operation is to ROB the rose of its possibility to be used as a tool of abuse or vampirism..

If the machine is as huge as it can be..

and as perfect in its function as can be..

then it cannot be misused..

much like a man cannot mususe a seven foot cube of solid lead!



It is tragic how easy it is for some people in their belief to steal energy from others through self imposed blindness..

just as the dying may lose perceptive energy to the rose through lack of knowledge of energy as it flows..

so can the greedy sap energy from the dying through their refusal to admit that what they see is DESIRES FULFILLED.. in contrary to others lost forever.

the safest most immpeccable option is to strive for an equal touch on the rose , equal with all people..

but then what is fluidity?

I should say that if the MOTH you see reflected in the droplet apon the rose is not YOUR DEATH but the visage of another..

that you have a BATTLE to win or lose ASAP.



NORTHERLY MAN OF THE TEMPLE (thorn)

[rosygyro]

what no debate? aww.. you need a dose of the westerly nagal dood!

[glance left]

Seriously, though...I couldn't eat another bite