Near Death Experiences

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Powerful dreaming...the Foregn Energy was powerful, what do you think of this dreaming Aranno?

[Bob May]

""but it heavily depends on how you interpret it. If I were
a christian, I would probably agree more with your interpretations then I am now.""
We have several bodies, layered like onions. Each, a vehicle that carries us and functions on specific planes.
There is a spiritual realm where a body is not present and if you reach it you are one with the surrounding intelligent energy.
There, there is no interpretation. reality at whatever level it is is Known.
To wake up to what is REAL is what Jesus came to teach us.
To open our eyes. Grace and TRUTH is what he brought.
Just as Don Juan's purpose was to teach us to SEE, though I believe Jesus' teaching go so much further.
"Seek and you shall find,..and ask and you shall receive.." is a "magical formula" that works.
Seek that place where you shall know even as you are known.
Ask for that pure spiritual knowledge where there is no interpretation.
There is no fear of death after you reach a certain level of SEEING because you are visiting some of those realms that you will be experiencing after the death of this most gross body that we are presently using as a vehicle.
We are spirit caught within this body of flesh. The reality that we experience here is only a shadow of what is to come.
I choose to experience as much and as many of those realms while I am stil in this flesh and bone body.
Why not? It is an adventure and makes this life interesting...
Until I shake off this coat and continue on the "Great Adventure" ahead.
Bob

[Bob May]

By the way, The Gospel of Thomas is a very good book to read in that it illustrates Jesus' teachings on opening our awareness, or "Seeing".
You might call it the "not doing" of Jesus.
It instucts Thomas how to look at the world around him.
It was disovered in the 1940's with the Nag Hammadi scrolls in Egypt. The same teachings are also in the New Testament, of course, but this particular book is more straight forward and deals directly with "Seeing" in my opinion.
It is short and to the point.Bob

[SSilhouette]

I would really like to see you post some of the stuff from the lost gospels as long as it didn't take on an evangelical flavor. I too believe that Jesus was a sorcerer of incredible means for his day. But don't be so quick to say he excelled where all others failed. He just got a lot of press. There have been many adept sorcerers through time who have healed and helped their fellow mankind.
I wouldn't mind seeing a whole forum dedicated to the Gnostic Gospel teachings. Therein was taught the self-empowerment and realization of personal energy as relates to the nagual. And hence the reason the foreign installation of the time (The "redactors") disallowed their inclusion in the christian Bible.
Those fliers have been around for a darn long time. "The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."

[Bob May]

"..But don't be so quick to say he excelled where all others failed. He just got a lot of press. There have been many adept sorcerers through time who have healed and helped their fellow mankind."
I said nothing about failure. I said his teachings went further than Don Juan's.
You are correct that there have been a lot of adepts who have healed and helped. I was taught by one for 14 years.
Jesus did get a lot of press. It started at least 4000 years before he arrived in a body and continues to this day.
I am no scholar on the scrolls, but I have read a few. A few that I am very suspicious of and two in particular that I am very impressed with. One, I've already mentioned is the "Gospel of Thomas" and the other is the "Gospel of Truth", purportedly by a man called Valentinius.
The "proof of the pudding is in the eating", as they say and I have experienced certain things over the years that later, I have seen written in books. Strange things that could not be easily described. When, later I see those things written by people who did not know me or even live in the same century as I do, I put great stock in what else those people have to say.
The "Journey to Ixtlan" is one of those books as is the Bible, both Old and New Testaments.
But the greatest of these is the Bible.
It is the only book that has spoken to me "Real Time".
I guess that is why Paul calls the OT the "Oracles of God."
Cause it speaks to you.
As far as Evangelical goes, I don't belong to a church, so I would not know which one to recommend.
I'm just sharing some insights and experiences.
Bob

[SSilhouette]

The Bible, to me is mostly useless. It's antiquated and reads like ****.
Who can relate to all the gibberish and old customs? It's too far of a reach. CC's stuff is way more relateable, more contemporary and gives real practical tools for accessing the types of 'miracles' the sorcerer Jesus performed with impeccability. The Bible just reeks of old jewish taboo, bigoted roman customs and dead-ends of every description. Moreover, CC didn't feel free to disenfranchise half the human population in his depiction of reaching for impeccability.
I'm sure Jesus' original teachings were really something. Too bad about half of them never made it to public airing, thanks to the Italian mafiosos in the Vatican. Screw them and that damned book they wave around and expect people to kiss..the mafia have a custom of kissing the headman's ring. Coincidence? I think not.
Anyway, I still would like to see the Gospel's they cast out. Abe's good at posting links...Abe?"The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."

[Bob May]

"The Bible, to me is mostly useless."
That is true, but only because you approach it with the same attitude as those you (as did Jesus, by the way) dissapprove of.
Where Don Juan said be impeccable, Jesus said be ye perfect.
Where Don Juan said look at the spaces between the leaves, Jesus said turn the other cheek. And consider the ravens who neither sow nor reap yet God provides for them.
It is not a book of rules and regulations. It is a book of expanding awareness.
Where Don Genero appeared to Carlos in the form of his double, he was not able to eat.
When Jesus appeared in a locked room among his disciples, he ate fish. A higher order of magic being that he manifested a completely physical body.
Paul and Phillip also did the same thing. Dissapearing in one place and manifesting in another. Jesus did the same thing with a boatload of disciples, boat and all.
The Catholics did not appear on the scene as a full blown organisation until 400 AD. But there were plenty of "bad guys" in Jesus time. The Romans, the Pharisses, Saducees, Lawyers, etc.
Jesus never had a good thing to say to those religious leaders. He showed them for what they were. That is about as contemporary as you can get.
We are surrounded by their contemporaries. The Catholic church being one of them, which has a lot in common with the Roman Empire AND the religious leaders.
Nothing has changed in that regard. Everyone has an agenda.
To use a Holy Book to control the masses is not a new trick. I see it at work here in some of the other forums, using Don Juan's teachings to gain a following in order to control people. Or as the Jesus put it; "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites! For you compass sea and land to make one proselyte, (convert) and when he is made you make him two-fold more the child of hell than yourselves."
Don't blame the Book for informing us of the dangers of the fliers. They have been around forever and they only have so many tricks. Jesus points out those tricks so that we will recognise the enemy when the enemy is there.
Don't kill the messenger.
Don't blame the book because some use it for evil ends.
Bob

[seeitall]

Hi Bob ,
what's your opinion about old testament. I mean this jealous
God that prefers only one nation, that is Jews.
--------------------
there is always something

[ninnshinn c skaud]

Jesus was a nagual. He saw into the Spirit.
Sir please , sir Thomasing's 'Gnostic' as Bob-She-Bob [put]
into it is the first five books called the 'Pentatuech'
I, sho Paul slave to Christ. Slaves to intent said
"That which I have done unto you I do no know And that which I do no know I do" Something.. something.. something...like that! per Bob-She -Bob May's pernmission.
" That which I do I do not do and that which I do not do I do" The apostle Paul said.
Every word of the Bible is true.
'We don't believe in I can't'
I only believe in what I see. The Bigot man's way. My way, the correct way.
Believe It Never Happened/ Enough Said ON That

[SSilhouette]

*yawn*
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................."The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."

[seeitall]

Quote:Where Don Genero appeared to Carlos in the form of his double, he was not able to eat.
When Jesus appeared in a locked room among his disciples, he ate fish. A higher order of magic being that he manifested a completely physical body.
hmm, maybe that was his physical body. In the power of
silence DJ died on the field and was buried. Isn't
that quite similar what happened to Jesus.
What I don't get is why he choose to die on the cross.
Any ideas ? I don't think it was because of redeeming us
from our sins ?


--------------------
there is always something

[Aranno Way]

Good question I often wonder about.

[SSilhouette]

I see it as an act of example to others. That being: physical suffering is nothing compared to spiritual suffering. And that if the spirit is strong, shining and its link to the spirit in top working order, the warrior (or insert era-appropriate equivalent inventory name) can withstand anything and come out on top.
Back to NDEs, this one might shed light on a secret Jesus was experiencing while nailed, bleeding and slowly suffocating to death..
Quote:My body was struck by a 45mph car and I could sense the projection occurring before it happened. I could protect myself throughout the accident while learning I could see myself being pulled to a safe place. I don't know where I went just before I got hit. That is why I feel an angel of some sort was also involved...
...It was as if my body knew I was about to be struck by a vehicle while crossing the street. I blacked out just before it happened and didn't feel a thing at first. She was going 45mph and It didn't even phase me. My first reaction was to get up as if I had just fallen down...
...Upon leaving my body just before I blacked out and the car hit me did I feel I was at my highest level of consciousness and alertness....
...I went someplace protected and nice on a beautiful level and when I awoke it was as if I wasn't injured...
~ Gina's NDE
This might be explained by shifing the AP to a place where pain no longer matters. The "angel" might simply be a "nagual" who helped her shift her AP away from that physical realm just before the car struck her so that the overall impact to her was minimized.
It also seems to support my contention that we are always surrounded by "helpers" who are assisting us from another AP. (that's "Assemblage Point for those new here)"The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."

[Aranno Way]

Now that you mentioned it I remember in the latter C.C books that D.J. stated to C.C. that they all died at one time and D.J. told C.C. that he did the same.
Can anyone provide any reference to D.J.'s statement about this because it just was not one member of the warrior party to have this happen?
I really have to buy all the books except for a few "again" because I let someone use them and did not get them back.
Since I read them so many times I guess buying them again has been getting old but will be new again soon.

[seeitall]

Quote:Now that you mentioned it I remember in the latter C.C books that D.J. stated to C.C. that they all died at one time and D.J. told C.C. that he did the same.
Can anyone provide any reference to D.J.'s statement about this because it just was not one member of the warrior party to have this happen?
I sure don't remember that. What I remember is DJ stated
there are 3 ways how to get rid of self importance. One of
it was to die like DJ did.

--------------------
there is always something

[Bob May]

Hi Bob ,
what's your opinion about old testament. I mean this jealous
God that prefers only one nation, that is Jews.
The Jews were the "chosen People".
They were chosen to be the race or nation that the Messiach was born into. He had to be a man, so he had to come through some nation. If God had chosen the Irish we would be asking the same question about them.
They were a good choice because they also had to keep the secret code books perfectly intact. This they did. These books of hidden knowledge (it had to be hidden or would have been destroyed) are what we call the Old Testament.
These books are about Jesus if you look past the obvious stories to the analogies behind those stories. The hidden meanings.
In the jewish first passover blood was applied to the doorposts of the Jews in Egypt when the angel of death came and killed all of Egypt's first-born. Then the angel of death "Passed Over" all of the firstborn among the Jews.
That symbol (two doorposts and a lintel across the top) is the shape of the Hebrew letter TAU. The letter TAU means CROSS. Get it? They were saved by blood on a cross!!!
Also, the Old Testament Law states that; "Cursed is everyone that Hangeth On A Tree".
Jesus became a curse so that all men could receive a blessing.
The Harsh Law of the O.T. came about because the Hebrews asked for it!!! They were afraid of the Nagual, the Unmanifest Creator. They asked Moses to deal with Him and said, basically;... "You go talk to Him and we will do what ever He says. We don't want to talk to Him."
So, God, the Nagual made the Law.
But the Nagual, mercifull as his true nature is Hid Within this Law the keys to unlocking deeper meanings. Hidden meanings to show the way to the Nagual to those who do want to experience the Unknown. Whether they be Jews, Irish, Arabs or Native Americans it matters not.
All that matters is a path with heart and intent.
Or, as Jesus said; "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
Thou shalt not; Commit adultery, murder, steal, lie, covet are not commandments if you look deeper at them.
They are a prophecy of how God will change your nature as you grow more deeply involved in the mystical/Nagual side of existance rather than the physical/Tonal side.
Those things are promises, Not rules and regulations.
That is the meaning of the "Circumcision of the Heart" as Paul puts it. Removing of the flesh to reveal the inner side of things. "Seeing" rather than looking at the World AND the Book.
The "Curse" started with a Tree,...The "Tree of the knowledge of good and Evil" that Mankind (Adam) ate of (and the fruit was death).
The "Curse" had to end on a Tree,... at Golgotha where the harsh Old Testament Law was crucified and done away with also. Where the Curse of the "First Adam" (Mankind caught up in the Tonal) was paid in full by the "Second Adam" (Caught up in Spirit or Nagual)
By dying he lifted the curse.
The greatest act of "Sympathetic Magic" in the history of Material Existence.
My opinion. Take it or leave it, but it would be good to consider it.
But taken as a whole, Both the Old and New Testaments together, there are more "Tales of Power" and Qabalistic Magic written there than in any other collection of such stories ever put down on paper or parchment.
Anyone interested in any type of Magic would be, in my opinion, ill advised to ignore such a wealth of information.
Bob

[Aranno Way]

Thanks Bob for your knowledge and insights, your input always completes the missing link or aspect that we all have to consider on the continuity of history when dealing with the elements and conditions that we face and ask ourselves why is it set up this way.

[delawaredan]

one should not put too much emphasis on any one belief system that reveals the truth. whatever path, or book, is used in order to become a seer is not the issue. my mother is jewish and my father is quaker. i spent much of my youth reading eastern philosophy such as the Tao Te Ching due to my discontent with the monotheistic religions. when i discovered the teachings of Don Juan, i knew not to focus on the teachings but on the results. if one becomes obsessed with the teaching or belief system, they have become trapped. the teaching was merely a way to shift awareness, but you do not want to stay at that assemblage point forever. the result is the ability to switch the assemblage point, to use intent. this cannot be done if we are trying to compare jesus to carlos; to determine who is the better nagual.....what is the better book of magic.
the way that can be spoken of is not the constant way (Lao-tzu)
daniel

[Bob May]

"one should not put too much emphasis on any one belief system that reveals the truth. whatever path, or book, is used in order to become a seer is not the issue. my mother is jewish and my father is quaker."
But are your mother and /or father seers?
"i spent much of my youth reading eastern philosophy such as the Tao Te Ching due to my discontent with the monotheistic religions. when i discovered the teachings of Don Juan"
I think a lot of us have similar backgrounds. With me as a child my parents tried to raise me Catholic. But I found no answers. As a young man I found the Castaneda books and found the "how to" of opening the doors of the spirit. Lost in the unknown territory, I had to find more answers, and since there were no teachers of sorcery in my area, I took to reading books and found that the Qabalah had answers. That led me to Western Mysticism and the Bible and soon after to my teacher John Scudder who taught on those subjects. He was also a master of the Kundalini and a faith healer.
He, in his turn had also searched for years for both answers and for the "highest form of magic" as he put it.
He was directed by a budhist monk to the Qabala when he asked him which was the highest form of magic.
"i knew not to focus on the teachings but on the results. if one becomes obsessed with the teaching or belief system, they have become trapped. the teaching was merely a way to shift awareness, but you do not want to stay at that assemblage point forever."
The study of the Qabala which is really the deeper study of the Bible is a roadmap of awareness or assemblage points.
Four worlds, Ten sephiroth in each world, the God names, Archangels, angels, archdemons, demons and elementals assigned to each sephirah in each tree in each world.
To become trapped is to step into that without a roadmap.
To use that roadmap is to never come to an end of assemblage points to explore.
"the result is the ability to switch the assemblage point, to use intent. this cannot be done if we are trying to compare Jesus to Carlos; to determine who is the better nagual.....what is the better book of magic."
The Don Juan teachings were a better introduction for me because I would never had looked at the Bible for answers, so it would not have been usefull.
I would never compare Jesus to Carlos. There is no comparison. What I do is to point out that there are elements in the teachings of Don Juan that are also in the Bible. Methods of opening the doors of our perception.
After opening those doors a person is confronted by beings and realms that are completely unfamiliar. Some very good, some very bad. Without a roadmap or guide an initiate is lost.
The big difference between Don Juan and Jesus is that Jesus still teaches those who are lost. Don Juan does not.
"the way that can be spoken of is not the constant way (Lao-tzu)"
"I am the way, the truth and the life..
(Jesus Christ)"
Again, no comparison.
Bob

[SSilhouette]

You're stuck in your Catholic inventory more than I thought Bob May. My dad was raised catholic too and he is so trapped by that complete brainwashing though he was excommunicated and rejected that religion when he was 19 years old (he's now 75). For 56 years he's been trying to pull his mind out of that FI.
Quote:the teaching was merely a way to shift awareness, but you do not want to stay at that assemblage point forever."~Bob
Exactly. And the difference between the Bible and the teachings of don Juan is that the Bible gives strict codes to adhere to. It encourages stale inventories and discourages personal freedom.
Whereas the teachings of don Juan encourage abandoning even his inventories at a given point and only looking at abstract cores behind them. Where in the Bible does it say, in essence, "ignore the nuts and bolts you see here and just shine your own link in your own way." If it says that, then that would be a minority of what is written in the Bible...an afterthought...alluded to in an offhand way instead of drilled into its reader.
With don Juan's wisdom we have personal empowerment and freedom mentioned every third sentence. In fact when I was studying the Bible and all of its misogynistic "laws", I kept thinking to myself: "this has very little to do with what an enlightened being would teach". It felt like a trap set up for the dull of wits to ensnare their perception into a certain fold: that of 9th century Roman redactors to be exact...and I can assure you that a bunch of powerful roman men in that century would've edited and omitted the **** out of an enlightened beings teachings if they flew directly in the face of their powerhold. That being namely, the subjegation and overlordship over women of all classes and peasant or workingclass men.
If Jesus taught of equality for women (which many scholars believe is true: that women held equal status in the earliest christian followings) then upon the continuing redaction (redaction= "reworking") of the Bible by powerful roman men, often posing as "christians", then anything that even hinted of their underlings realizing personal empowerment would've been, and in fact was, "redacted".
It would be akin to reading the KKK's version of the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King. Along that lines of "sincere inclusion" of actual statements of Dr. King's.
In the early days, Jesus was an upstart that many powerful romans objected to in a big way. However, his followers were too numerous so instead of pounding that ideology out of existance, the savy and wiley Constantine incorporated the roman version of Jesus' teachings to keep the masses in line, faithful to the roman overule and subdued.
Quote:As time went on Constantine should become ever more involved with the Christian church. He appeared at first to have very little grasp of the basic beliefs governing Christian faith. But gradually he must have become more acquainted with them. So much so that he sought to resolve theological disputes among the church itself.
In this role he summoned the bishops of the western provinces to Arelate (Arles) in AD 314, after the so-called Donatist schism had split the church in Africa. If this willingness to resolve matters through peaceful debate showed one side of Constantine, then his brutal enforcement of the decisions reached at such meetings showed the other. Following the decision of the council of bishops at Arelate, donatist churches were confiscated and the followers of this branch of Christianity were brutally repressed. Evidently Constantine was also capable of persecuting Christians, if they were deemed to be the 'wrong type of Christians'.~LINK
Later, the redactors continued the tradition of whittling away the original knowledge of the master Jesus:
Quote:Jesus was proclaimed a king as even the gospels admit and as such he was a rival to Caesar and a threat to the Empire. That was no trivial crime and required detailed reports from the Roman governor to the Emperor. If, though, as Christians maintain, it was not worth recording and indeed was not recorded, it seems curious that early opponents and critics of Christianity failed to question the absence of independent evidence of Jesus's existence. The Christian apologists did not attempt to answer any such questions, so apparently they were not put. Only in modern times have critics argued that Jesus never existed at all.
In the early days of Christianity, its critics' main argument was a different oneJesus was a bandit and a magician and, remarkably, that the records of the time proved it! A Jewish source says Jesus was crucified at Lydda as a false teacher and a beguiler. Celsus and Lucian early in the second century and Sossianus Hierocles late in the third tell us that Jesus was a sorcerer and a fomenter of rebellion who committed highway robbery at the head of a band of men. These documents existed because later scholars refer to them. But where are they now? Gone! Nothing of this remains now because Christians, when they came to power under Constantine, began to destroy anything contrary to their own view.
The death penalty was prescribed for anyone owning or trying to preserve any books describing Jesus as a magician or an agitator!..
..Passages were removed from Lucian. The works of Celsus and Sossianus Hierocles were suppressed and we now only have quotations made from them by Christian polemicists. Many old manuscripts in museums and archives are testimony to the Christian censors blotting out sentences or sometimes obscuring whole pages by spilt ink.
Besides official censorship, Christian editors and copyists, altered passages as they saw fit...
..Jews also had to alter their records if the Christian censor was not to burn them. Explicit references to Jesus were replaced by references to "a certain one". The version of the Old Testament written in Greek, the Septuagint, was also tampered with by the Christians who then accused the Jews of altering their own version. In the pogroms of the Middle Ages, Jewish Scriptures were burnt by the cartload. In 1263 AD King Jayme I of Aragon in Spain ordered that all Jewish books should be destroyed.
The greatest act of Christian vandalism of all was the torching of the magnificent library of Alexandria in the fifth century. This wholesale destruction of accumulated wisdom in the name of God precipitated the dark ages from which we did not recover until the Renaissance.~Comprehensive overview of the history of christianity
And where is the Vatican today, the supposed "uberauthority" on all things "christian". Oh, yes, that would be Rome, Italy.
The Bible...yeah, right...
But unfortunately it and the parts of the Gnostic gospels that weren't redacted to death are all we have of this great enlightened being's teachings. Sifting through it all takes seeing. Finding the lost parts takes seeing. And seeing was given to us via don Juan. You say don Juan isn't helping people as Jesus does. I say you're wrong. Who knows where don Juan's awareness is lodged right now? How do we know he wasn't dedicated to our betterment and via his legacy we will reach the abstract cores of enlightenment that many masters have taught since the dawn of time?
Don Juan taught: follow a path with a heart, all others are dead-end roads. In a nutshell, this is the entire summation of all of Jesus' teachings. This is the abstract core in fact that binds all religions of the world. The rest of it is all human excrement and dated inventories of old civilizations which, like all civilizations, have their heads mostly lodged deep in their asses.

"The Reality Is That You Will Die. The Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."

[delawaredan]

Thank you Sil
i may not be a great debater but i feel as if the bible holds many stale inventories. in fact, the entire jewish tradition is tied to the laws of the torah in which strict adherence is needed. a trap which does not promote personal freedom.
as for jesus christ...i try not to say this when someone is such a jesus zealot but...the statement that jesus makes in regards to being the only way, path, and light...is pompous bullshit. this is extremely limiting of personal freedom.
i was trying to state that any path to enlightenment could become a trap if one believes it is the only way. jesus demands that his way is the only way and for those who reject it...what happens.

[SSilhouette]

Actually there is evidence that Jesus did not say his way was the only way. And remember, the only records we have of what the man actually
did say were heavily redacted to reflect the agendas of powerful roman men. And remember: these men
hated Jesus. So, yeah. Read the Bible for what it's worth in accurate reflection of what really went down way way way back then.




Like I said, we need to see Jesus' teachings. There is no other way to be accurate. And in that
way don Juan gave us a greater tool than the Bible. This is where Bob May and I diverge in opinion.




(I hate to do this to you but..)






Quote:

30For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation
.~Luke 11-30




49Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:




50That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the
foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;~ Luke 11-49&50





This passage indicates that Jesus acknowledges that other prophets must address different generations. Don Juan is a more recent one. And so on...




This is in keeping also with "The tonal of the times". Each "prophet" addresses a different generation. And different phrophets address
even different subcultures within the same generation. From the gangs of East LA to the monastries of spiritually sublime regions there is a person, a warrior,
whose link to the spirit shines with extraordinary clarity.




Jesus was addressing the tonal of the Middle East and outlying areas circa AD 20-30. Of course much of his shifting inventories seem absurd today. But the
abstract cores apply as if it were yesterday. See?




I think it's interesting that there were rumors going around back in his day that Jesus was a sorcerer..




But that doesn't explain exactly what he was doing.. "sorcerer" is a quasi-accurate term, but will have to suffice.


"The Reality Is That You Will Die. The
Uncertainty Is What Will Happen After That.."

[delawaredan]

that is what i see when i read the teachings of jesus.....

[Aranno Way]

The teachings of D.J. have always been more of a tangible means for me to perceive the abstract and act but the bible lays out the elements but seems to lack the tangible aspects to readily use without much deciphering to act in a readily fashion.

[Bob May]

Exactly. And the difference between the Bible and the teachings of don Juan is that the Bible gives strict codes to adhere to. It encourages stale inventories and discourages personal freedom.
And hidden in those Old Testament codes as you call them, or Law as I do is what the New Testament calls the "perfect Law of Liberty".
Men asked for the Law and got it. Hidden within the Law is Truth. It is all in how you read it.
((That Law (the harsh OT law) was done away with at the cross. Along with the Old Covenant.
If any preacher tells you different, he is anti-Christ. Or against what Christ taught.))
If it wasn't hidden, the book would have been burned long ago by those, who over the centuries, have used the books to control the masses.
Very good research, by the way. Is that from Elaine Pagels books? She is very good at piecing together the religious/political atmosphere of the first few centuries AD.
I think you and I are not so different. I would just suggest that you don't assume that just because someone claims to be Christian that you should take them at their word. That would go for the entire Catholic church as an organization, (in my opinion), and most people I've met that make the same claims. Throw Constantine in there also.
Jesus warned of that.
Christians are about as rare as sorcerers.
It would be akin to reading the KKK's version of the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King. Along that lines of "sincere inclusion" of actual statements of Dr. King's.
Though the books in the New Testament (which are mostly letters) were chosen and rejected, the books of the Old Testament were kept intact.
There is the problem for those who used it for their own ends.
Firstly they didn't understand it because to "see" the New Testament hidden within the Old Testament books, our eyes must be opened.
Secondly, even if they had "seen" that, they could not get rid of the books or they would have been geting rid of their supposed claim to power and exclusive connection to the Almighty.
They did the next best thing. They translated everything to Latin to keep it from the uneducated masses.
But unfortunately it and the parts of the Gnostic gospels that weren't redacted to death are all we have of this great enlightened being's teachings. Sifting through it all takes seeing. Finding the lost parts takes seeing. And seeing was given to us via don Juan.
I will agree that I "Saw" as a result of Don Juan's methods. But I have "seen" a lot more since I first stopped the world.
You say don Juan isn't helping people as Jesus does.
I didn't say that. I said Jesus teachings go furhter.
I say you're wrong.
I've heard worse said about me.
Who knows where don Juan's awareness is lodged right now?
Don Juan knows.
How do we know he wasn't dedicated to our betterment and via his legacy we will reach the abstract cores of enlightenment that many masters have taught since the dawn of time?
Why would we assume any of this? He never claimed "dedication to our betterment" that I recall.
I believe his story was that the Nagual pointed him to Carlos to teach him.
And though "seeing" has come VIA Don Juan's teachings and methods to some, it does not come FROM Don Juan.
Even Jesus did not claim as a man to be the source of his abilities, but as a recipient from the Unknowable Father via the Spirit.
But one thing he did claim was to make his abode in us. He and the Father and the Spirit.
Jesus warned of those coming in his name saying that he was Christ.
He was warning us against the wiles of religious leaders and so called Christians. I take those warnings seriously.
But he also said that his words would abide forever. Not just in the books, but all around us.
Bob