The Dreaming Body Dreaming Itself

[dreamways]

Here is a reply that I made to SpiritRhythms on a different board, I'm reposting it here because I think it has a connection to Nagualism, even if
it is a distant one. It is basically background info for the posts which will follow, so please bear with me on this.




I have had an extremely rich dreaming and visionary life over the past 16 years, during which time I have seen all sorts of beings and places. It has been both
a blessing and a curse, as I mostly see spirits and energies at about the Earth level or below. But, on some occasions, I have seen angels, and in particular,
Raphael the archangel. Now, all the angels I've seen bestow a genuine peace and calm around them, but Raphael is different. When he shows up I actually
feel "perfect." That is, I trust in God and myself, I don't notice any physical or mental pain, I feel happy and content, and lastly, I can feel
and see a rejuvenating light that emanates from the him. This is a whole lot different than having a dream with an angel that is a foreman of a road
construction crew, that tells me that the road is my life and they are working on it. Sure, that "foreman", my guardian angel is a nice guy and very
peaceful, but he doesn't appear like the sun, he doesn't create joy out of a vacuum like Raphael can.




When I first saw Raphael, I was young and healthy and had the world by the balls. I saw Raphael as a bonus that I didn't even need. I even asked him why he
was visiting me in particular, like what was it I had done that would merit such a reward. He said that it was not a reward but a gift. He said that I had
never done anything in my life to merit a reward from Heaven. He said he had come to visit me because angels always start with the ones who are most in need of
help. At the time I thought it could not possibly be accurate as everything seemed dandy to me. But, I've never lied about this fact to anyone.




Now that I'm older and diabetic and having watched all of my life savings disapear with the housing market, I think about my original days with Raphael
alot. 16 years ago, he stayed with me for 3 weeks straight and then flew away back to the "Crown of Heaven." As he departed, he said to me,
"I'm leaving now, but I will return. When I do, you had better be ready." My response at the time was basically "Ack!" I have a great
sense of energy, even at far distances, that is, I am sensitive to powerful sources of energy, both dark and light, as long as they are in this universe. When
Raphael left, he went so far away that it was as if the power company had turned off all my utilities, my car had run out of gas and I had missed eating that
day. It was pretty damn awful. So, honestly, that made me angry. I developed a love-hate relationship with the angel at that point.




The other beings that I had encountered in dreaming, the ones that were "not angels", they stuck around, they offered friendship and dark secrets.
These shadow beings didn't come and go with the wind, they didn't withhold anything from me, and they gave me access to their worlds. Sure they were
scary but at least they were loyal friends. Strangely, through the teachings of the shadow beings, I was eventually able to find my way back to the edge of
Raphael's influence. After all I had been through, all I could ask him was "why?" He said, "There is great darkness and suffering in the
world of men, I had to convince you, so you had to see it with your own eyes, feel it with your own flesh." So, that's where I am today, back within
earshot of Raphael, hoping for the sunrise.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

The world of man has become the world of the earth. Many live on it. Many live above it. Many die upon it. We are a sum mass and a treasured few. A massive
humanity that is largely animal and a curse upon the planet. There is much suffering and much beauty. Warriors see suffering in beauty and angels see beauty in
suffering. That we live is all that matters.

[dreamways]

OK, the above being said and gotten out of the way, let me tell you how this relates to dreaming. Now, I don't have any insight into healing myself or
anyone else, and I don't know squat about what a nagual is supposed to do. But, I can see energy, and when I feel like it, I can see fine details, myriad
layers and exotic structures. I rarely know what to do with the information I gather, but I guess you can't have it all, I'm just happy I can do what
I can. So, let me tell you about the latest and greatest thing I've seen, something that still leaves me perplexed. When I start by looking at the
internal structure of my dreaming body, then travel outward, infinitely far away, I end up inside my dreaming body again... Except, now it's bigger and
brighter and more dynamic in every way. When I go to the crown chakra of the outer dreaming body, I see a bright light and can speak with the angel being
called Raphael that I wrote about.




No matter how clearly I may speak of this angel phenomenon, I don't want to imply that I understand it. Inorganic beings are a thousand times more
"real" to me than this angel, but the angel is a thousand times more powerful. So what am I supposed to say. The main thing is, it seems to me that
my dreaming body is dreaming itself, that the larger version of my dreaming body is the one that is doing the dreaming. So, that would mean that I am the
dream that is now merging with the dreamer. Somebody might say, hey that angel archetype is you, and you are just integrating it. That's fine except,
like inorganic beings, it has told me that it is absolutely not me. If I disregard that then I have to disregard everything. This whole dreaming body within
a dreaming body thing has really got me baffled, it seems to point at aspects of dreaming that I have never conceived of as possible until now.

[dreamways]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:

Warriors see suffering in beauty and angels see beauty in suffering.

Ya, it seems to go that way doesn't it. My theory is that the angel is a manifestation of transcendent energy, if that makes any sense. When I feel
the light of the angel, people around me feel it as well. I believe that if I was in sync with that energy, I would not have to try to explain things anymore.
Firstly because, peace doesn't need an explanation, and secondly because peace isn't questioned when it's shared.

[dreamways]

The reason that I am looking for an alternative or supplement to nagualism is not because the inorganic beings, black hand sorcerers and death defiers lie
about anything, it is because they tell the truth and the truth is not pleasant. The inorganic truth is the same as the organic truth, things are rough all
over. The inorganic and organic realms are basically on the same spiritual plane. If you can't escape this plane, then nagualism might not be such a bad
idea, as it offers one a transition between the physical and inorganic. When I talk about angels, it doesn't mean I'm going to be posting about
unicorns next, I'm just describing the phenomenon as I presently see it.

[Bob May]

To go to the crown chakra and outside of the body is a meditation method known as "the Point" and if done correctly it results in "Rising on the
Planes."




To put your awareness upon that "point" as it is called in Qabala is symbolic of the first Sephirah Kether also called "the point."


You can rise above the realm of organics and even Demonic influence using this technique. I once found myself face to face with a demon and watched myself rise
beyond his reach or influence.


This meditation technique is mirrored (in my opinion, though I have never seen it written by anyone else) in the Crucifixion event itself.


It is no accident that Jesus hovered above a hill-top that was known as "The Place of the Skull" or Golgotha.




Yes angels are real and so are Archangels. It is good that you said it is Raphael, considering you are having physical problems. He is the Healer. Take
advantage of it. But be prepared. The realm and operations of Angels is as far above the realm of inorganics as can be imagined.


And I agree that the sorcerer's realm and that of inorganics is just outside of this physical world. Just beyond the first veil.


Not so the "higher planes". They are so real in comparison to this world as to make this world appear to be merely a realm of shadows and twilight.

[Bob May]

"... but the angel is a thousand times more powerful."




They can choose how to manifest to us. Even in a flesh and blood body if they wish.


When it happened to me I was in my chair meditating. It came in a blinding flash and "stood" about eight feet in front of me. White robe, golden
shoulder length hair, face was just grey light. It exuded a rainbow and the light it was made of was literally alive and aware.


But the Strength of it floored me. It hovered and had no feet (at least not showing.) But hovered or floated are the wrong words, because I felt that if the
sun itself was coming past and ran into the angel it would have stopped in it's movement and would have had to wait for the angel to leave before it could
continue on it's course. I am not exaggerating or being poetic.




"Somebody might say, hey that angel archetype is you, and you are just integrating it. That's fine except, like inorganic beings, it has told me that
it is absolutely not me. If I disregard that then I have to disregard everything."




Let's see, you can disregard an archangel or you can disregard the opinions of "somebody" who can't imagine the possibility of the existence
of one.


This is not a difficult choice.




"When I start by looking at the internal structure of my dreaming body, then travel outward, infinitely far away, I end up inside my dreaming body
again... Except, now it's bigger and brighter and more dynamic in every way. When I go to the crown chakra of the outer dreaming body, I see a bright light
and can speak with the angel being called Raphael that I wrote about. "




It sounds to me that you kind of "went around the block" to get there, but what the hell. Whatever works.




My teacher once told me to take the principles he taught and apply them in my own way. But the crown chakra "away from" or "above the body"
is a sure Key for me as to your experience relating to higher planes.




Dreaming stems from the area just below the sternum or solar plexus. (The Eagle's Gift pg.136.) This is the seat of the subconscious mind. Go there to
visit inorganic realms.


Rising on the planes stems from the area just above the head in line with the spinal column. This could be called the entrance to the super-conscious realms.




The physical and subtle bodies are a roadmap to the universe. A microcosm that matches the macrocosm. Pick a spot and you have access to it. "As above,
so below."

[dreamways]

Bob May wrote:

To go to the crown chakra and outside of the body is a meditation method known as "the Point" and if done correctly it results in "Rising on
the Planes."
Sounds cool. The more I examine this new version of my dreaming body, the less I really understand it. My first impression is that it has shed
my personality. It is oval shaped, emerald colored, sparkles and seems to have a crystalline nature to it. There appears to be more going on with it than I
am aware of, that is, it seems to be doing something unknown. I'll let you know what else I find out. Thanks for the input.

[dreamways]

Bob May wrote:

When it happened to me I was in my chair meditating. It came in a blinding flash and "stood" about eight feet in front of me. White robe, golden
shoulder length hair, face was just grey light. It exuded a rainbow and the light it was made of was literally alive and aware.


But the Strength of it floored me. It hovered and had no feet (at least not showing.) But hovered or floated are the wrong words, because I felt that if the
sun itself was coming past and ran into the angel it would have stopped in it's movement and would have had to wait for the angel to leave before it
could continue on it's course. I am not exaggerating or being poetic.


I can relate to that. One thing that angels and inorganic beings have in common is that their energy is unique and not found naturally on earth. This is
why angels have such a profound effect on people who see them, it's because they emanate a light that is not available from any other source. They have no
substitute.

[Guest]