Stalking - CC contradiction

[serendipity]

At one point in this post, DJM states that, "Stalking belongs exclusively to the new seers."



Later, in the post, DJM expresses his bewilderment that, "Out of all the marvelous things the old sorcerers learned exploring those thousands of positions, only the art of dreaming, and the art of stalking, remain."



Do you, consider such contradictions, (of which, there are a plethora in CC's books,), to be deliberate on DJM's part?

If so, for what purpose?

[SelfHealedMadman]

serendipity wrote:

At one point in this post, DJM states that, "Stalking belongs exclusively to the new seers."
Later, in the post, DJM expresses his bewilderment that, "Out of all the marvelous things the old sorcerers learned exploring those thousands of positions, only the art of dreaming, and the art of stalking, remain."
Do you, consider such contradictions, (of which, there are a plethora in CC's books,), to be deliberate on DJM's part?
If so, for what purpose?
Hey Seren!
I'm unsure if it is a contradiction, but let's assume it is...
The purpose?
To see if CC was paying attention. 
To perhaps bring forth another aspect of the teaching from either waking or heightened awareness. 
To show CC the contradiction and then say, "Ok, now what?" 
As a teaching tool to show CC that it's more about action than words.
To spur CC on to figure it out for himself.
Perhaps CC knew what Juantio said, yet changed it in the book to mystify the reader, or allow the reader to figure it out for themselves? 
As to IF it's a contradiction, I dunno. 
Perhaps CC had a typo.  Perhaps something was lost in translation if all his notes were in Spanish.  Maybe he just made it all up? 
Perhaps the Old Seers knew of Stalking, but since they didn't deal with people they only knew of it yet didn't practice it? 
For myself, I'm rather unconcerned with all of 'them.'  I have what I need to work on thy Self, so it's all good.
To side-track for just a moment though, what you mention as a contradiction is interesting.  You know what else is really interesting?  Everyone's own interpretation of what CC wrote.  I'm finding this more and more amazing as I discuss CC's work with others.  Not just CC's work or specific lingo, but other concepts and terms as well.  This has taught me a lot.  Different perspectives on specific words or concepts.  How has this taught me anything?  It broadens the scope of my personal history.  (Even in this duality.)  Simply amazing.  A couple of examples:
Love.  Love was mentioned in chat the other day with multiple definitions.  Is your definition any better than mine?  Or even, yours is right and mine is wrong?  How could that possibly be? 
Nagual.  What's a Nagual?   
Impeccability.  Holy sweet Jesus.  If I had a nickel for every version of what impeccability is, or what impeccable behavior is, I'd be rich! 
Now of course these words we use are just descriptions and are here in the dualistic world. 
Seeing, imho, is non-dualistic.  To explain our seeing though, we make it dualistic to make some sense of it.  Then of course we may put it down in words on this computer screen or type it out on a piece of paper and share it with someone else.  This other person of course will not hold our enthusiasm and perhaps disagree with it.  Then of course we ask ourselves what happened.  "Why didn't s/he like my explanation?"  Well, words are just a description, a dualistic explanation of a magickal event.  I mean, they didn't experience it, I did.  So this is why I give kudos to CC for explaining as much as he did.   
So, to wrap this back around to contradition and purpose.  What is your purpose?  What is your practice?  

Or, let me put it another way and make it personal.  "How will this help me in my practice to know this?" 
What is my practice?  My practice is to be completely present in this moment and to experience whatever arises fully.  And that's it. 
There is nothing more, because everything else is imagined or constructed.  I have sensation, I have emotion, and I have thought.  All three of these arise, often simultaneously, and I invariably take them to be fact, while actually, they are only the movement of energy. 
If I look, I can notice that there is an awareness that is aware of all these movements, but is not a part of them, and is not effected directly by them.  This awareness I tend to call "I", but when I fall into this awareness, I find no "thing" there that could be identified as an "I" or a "person" or a "body".  It is the direct experience of this causeless awareness experiencing itself that is the purpose of my practice.

"Yea right, Kris.  You're on about this Zen mumbo jumbo again.  What's that got to do with Stalking or anything in regards to Nagualism?" 
Well, that's for me to know and for you to find out, if you wish  :-)  I'm out of time, anywho...
SHM

[serendipity]

Hi SHM,

I do consider it to be a contradiction. I asked that question for a reason.



Such contradictions abound in CC's writings, and yet, I find it hard to believe that, someone as meticulous and disciplined, as CC was reported to be, would have published without checking what he had written.



I am aware that, proof-reading your own writings is ineffective, but, what about his editors, and thier proof-readers? What about those who reviewed what he had written, prior to publishing?



If, the contradictions are deliberate, then, it seems reasonable to assume that, they serve a purpose.



Deliberate verbal and logical contradictions are often employed in Zen,.........yes?



You offer an interesting range of possibilities. I would tend to lean toward, "Maybe, he just, made it all up.", but, for my own experiences, which, verify some of the info.



Often, the contradictions could be covered by assuming that, the info is sequential, and each new book supersedes and clarifies the info in the previous books. This is insufficient when the contradictions occur in the same book, or chapter, however.



That,s an interesting side-track,......yes, I agree that, people's different perspectives on words, terms, and concepts, is fascinating, though, often, the cause of much misunderstanding.



As to your practice,.........very interesting. Enjoy. From what you say, it seems to be leading you somewhere. A trip report would be appreciated, if, you ever get there.



Heheh,............you could,nt resist your favourite tactic of,......."What is YOUR purpose?",......eh?



It's a good tactic, but, irrelevant in my case. The only things I practice are, masturbation, talking ****, taking mind altering substances, and trying to play classical guitar. Who knows,.............one day, I might get ONE of them perfect!



As to purpose,.......I have none. I just am. (whoever the ***, "I" is,). I am, however, deeply interested in the exploration of awareness.

[lex icon]

I found this dialogue very interesting. So many of these kind of of conversations seem to end just as they were getting started....swallowed by an abyss. Perhaps that is just one of the pitfalls of this internet medium. :'(

[Wei Shan Yang]

Lex, share with us where you thought the dialog was headed and the value of what could have come out of it if you want.

[MUSICBULLET]

1ST OFF, STALKERS DEAL WITH PEOPLE AND THE BUSINESS OF THE DAILY WORLD. THE USE OF THE WORD "EXCLUSIVLY" IN THIS CONTEXT PERTAINS TO OUR MODERN WORLD WHICH HAS BECOME SATURATED WITH PEOPLE AND BUSINESS. IT IS A BUSINESS WORLD! THERES NOT AS MUCH INTENSITY FOR DREAMERS NOW DAYS.  IT WOULD BE EQUIVALENT TO SAYING THAT ELECTRICITY BELONGS EXCLUSIVLY TO THE 20TH CENTURY. THE OLD SEERS INVENTED AND USED STALKING VERY MUCH LIKE Alexander Graham Bell INVENTD AND USED THE TELEPHONE. THERE IS MORE NEED FOR IT NOW DAYS.

[messengerpidgeon]

Sounds like witnessing inevitable universal facts yet two trains running beside each other with the drivers waving at the interchange , one carries coal from the terminals are the same , it uses coal for fuel, the other uses the terminal and does not use its own payload . That can be read in different ways according to the reader also, words have the uncanny ability of moulding the self to th reader, spirit shouting deer ! I say what! Says deer , they are deer and you are the prey, b

[messengerpidgeon]

It's been moulded stalking from observations that are inevitable , however if you already carry a full load wishing payment , the facts are going to becoming evident , thank you scout for the forest bridge. Q

[messengerpidgeon]

You asked me

To remind you? Now nature is all around us , still , bridging

[shamanka]

imo, old sorcerers were more aligned with power, they had little need to self reflect and so therefore had no requirement to stalk.

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