Love (& Light) Brigade

[snowblind]

Having been on the planet a few years it seems to me that disrespect is something that is allowed rather than foist upon.

If I feel disrespected, then I have allowed myself to feel that way...make sense? Therefore disrespect comes from me...not from others.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Sometimes, snowblind, we need to think of others evolution...what others can learn and change of their awareness. At least that's what I feel. I don't just speak for my own conclusions, I'm thinking of those out there.

[snowblind]

how can you think what others think? And Why?

[Turin Otzaki]

I dont experience much of this male female stuff...we are all just people. If I experienced sexism Id probably not even notice

[Wei Shan Yang]

snowblind...I don't think what others think...I was asking what others think. I like discussions and the transformation in general, like to see others and myself transform. I know I cannot direct how one does it, not even myself at times...because others help shape me, I just know we are all doing it all the time and communication is the avenue.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Turin,



More interested it gender dynamics, dominance/control issues...I know you have blogged about this.



Sexism is one form it takes. Men and women use it as a control.

[Turin Otzaki]

I have blogged about control and dominance yes, and how it has fear underlying it....and in a much broader context than sexism, as you say thats just one form.
I work every day surrounded by men, have done for 15+ years....if I caught the slightest hint that they felt superior to me because they are male Id laugh my arse off.

[Wei Shan Yang]

In your blog you specifically mentioned gender identity...it was in May abouts.



"I work every day surrounded by men, have done for 15+ years....if I caught the slightest hint that they felt superior to me because they are male Id laugh my arse off."





But what about men, what if they do perceive in a way such as dominance/submissive...what about their evolution out from that? Communication opens doors.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Ok, it was April 18...here are some of the things you said:


Men seem to have a bee in their bonnets about social 'position'....



So the awareness of egos at work. Its happening right now mostly as a result of having so many men around me, my own guys I am spending more time with than usual and my wealthy client who I am looking at closely too. And {} of course, the luvvie. Yesterday {} and I arranged to have brunch this morning and said our goodbyes, I was then having coffee with the clients family, and {} came to the door to say goodbye again, and had to make a point of saying loudly, that he would see me for brunch today. Now that looks on the surface to be nothing, and I don't have any problem with him saying that at all, but the motive - I saw the ego at work behind it - I suspect that after a day of being seen and treated by the client as a labourer, he felt it necessary to let them all know his status with me as a close friend.



That stuff seems compulsive in guys, the status, positioning thing. I see it with my wealthy client all the time, his need to show that he knows more than anyone else and be in complete control of everything...Turin, it amazes me you proceed now as if sexism is something so far from your awareness. At least you may have said...yes, I used to think that way but now I don't...but you didn't say this.



These things are real, I am not making them up. I just feel I am having a hard time with others owning up to it.
Since this blog is already on the internet I felt it was not to your objection to put here. I remember I responded to you at the time...becasue you emailed it to me with the note "feel free to stalk my ego!!!"
My response:
"I
saw nothing to stalk in what you said Seemed just like your were
expressing how you felt. It seemed to me this was your intuitive
assessments on various things, and probably a lot of truth to it
regarding the relationship dynamics you describe.





When you say you stalk your ego, I take it just to mean you gather
meaning from analysis of motives within circumstances to gauge where you
are at and thus help determine where you want to go next on a personal
insight level."
And I still agree...I think you were having some insights at the time that were valid for men to hear. Do I seek to change all men? No, only those who want change.

[Wei Shan Yang]

And women who want change too. Its about being free of gender identities. We don't get free by pretending it doesn't exist when it is in fact happening. Yes, I can free only myself...and maybe that's what I'm doing, this is how its done, and others can be freed in the process too. I don't see how just keeping it all to myself will help anyone else. I prefer to help as many as I can including me...all who want to evolve. Beyond this realm.

[Wei Shan Yang]

And as far as this forum...I see in many male members this very thing:



"his need to show that he knows more than anyone else and be in complete control of everything..."



I see relationships established to reinforce this...a "yeah I'm with so and so on this" type of mentality. I see women as accommodated at times, played up to, getting on their good side just as a way to smooth things over, but under it is a sense of supremacy.



I hear a hidden dialog..."She's not having insights...no no no, can't be that, can't be that woman has anything to teach me about our genders. I know all about women because I'm a man. If anything, she can learn from me."



I see women looking the other way, even enjoying being able to say they understand the guys POV (though its not called that...rather its just the view that there is nothing needing change with these dynamics), that the women's POV is non-existent and is merely the problem with the woman, her imaginings.



In short, this is where i see people stuck.

[Turin Otzaki]

That example above from the blog, is a male to male trip. The guy wanted my wealthy client to know that he was more than just my employee by mentioning in front of him that we were going to have lunch.



There's no sexism there in this example. Just one ego (my employee) feeling threatened in the presence of another big ego (my clients) and needing to strut a bit. I have seen women do this ego strutt too, I have seen myself do this !! Men do have a vulnerability to it though perhaps due to conditioning, biology, i dont know. Here I am talking gender isues, just what I wanted to avoid arghhhhhh!!! Best not to inflame this vulnerability in men is my approach, there's a way through it, and that requires some gentleness. And that goes for women too...But there is a time for confronting...



Yes like people do strutt their stuff here in the forum, men and women. "his need to show that he knows more than anyone else..." you could replace 'his' and 'he' with 'her' and 'she' and it would have the same validity. Im not the only one who has noticed that YOU strutt your stuff here Tiffany big fat ego an' all! and with quite show offy energy at times, quite aggressive a feeling too. You often come from an 'I KNOW' place. I kinda like it, its fiery and spirited. But its no wonder that you see this in others, after all, what we see is what we are But Id like to say that you are missing out on a lot by taking this confrontational stance, it sets the tone of any interaction, and people dont open up easily if the feeling isnt accepting. Rather it sets an argumentative tone....



I witnessed a most beautiful openness in a discussion yesterday on chat between Gonzo, Affinity and Self Healed Madman about some deeply personal matters, right into the most trusting confiding of their inner thoughts and feelings. Not an ego in sight. Just pure sharing and mutual learning. I have a sense that you maybe underestimate what you have found here.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Women's traditional roles are the hearth maintainers. Within that hearth are all the male insecurities, they can be nurtured or coveted depending. I am reminded of LoneWolf's quote:



"Ah love I think can free you or enslave you....based on the woman (smile)."



To me, gender roles are what enslave us. Keeping up the status quo. What I am doing here is not nurturing that's for sure, but its not keeping up the status quo either. Its like mortar on an old building to me. You and snowblind came in and seemed to be saying "why blow up that old building?"



Strutt her stuff huh? Well, a woman can be allowed that. I'm not a big fat ego. I'm a little bitty ego . But I know what you are saying, people notice me...and guess what, I notice people too...how they respond to me tells me a lot about them. Some here I learn from, they are doing things I have not yet learned to do, and I'm grateful to learn from them. Others I learn from though they are doing things I don't want to do, I am grateful to them, and try to help them. At times these two criss cross so it can be the same person referred to in both cases.



Confrontational stances are sometimes worth being taken, they can be productive, though in the end its nurturing that heals. I am not missing out, I have many nurturing relationships and experience intimacy and sharing on a regular basis. Including here at this forum.



"I witnessed a most beautiful openness in a discussion yesterday on chat between Gonzo, Affinity and Self Healed Madman about some deeply personal matters, right into the most trusting confiding of their inner thoughts and feelings. Not an ego in sight. Just pure sharing and mutual learning. I have a sense that you maybe underestimate what you have found here."



Yes, I know these expereinces very well. First the stage must be set. Also what should be considered is what is being nurtured in the hearth. Is it ultimately freeing us?



My confronting is one aspect of our group dynamics here. One piece of the puzzle. I know my intent when I do it, so I do not feel I need to atone for anything. I have a warrior's mind through and through...but I do like everyone here and just want us all to be free, but I won't press for it.

[serendipity]

Hi all,

hope you do,nt mind this intrusion.



On reading through this thread, a few things occured to me,.............



There is no forum specifically titled Sorcerer, i.e.; no forum aimed at males, rather than, females.

Nowhere in these forums, have I noticed males complaining about the attitude of females, towards males.



I have not noticed any sexist attitudes displayed by the male members towards the female members.



Snowblind touched upon a valid point. Offence, is never given, always taken. The most someone can do, is offer offence. It is your descision, as to, whether to take it, or not.



Turin, also, makes valid points. The faults you attribute to males, are not, gender specific. They are human.



(Damn! They are both WOMEN!)



One is revealed by one's actions and attitudes, both here, and in everyday life, regardless of what justifications and/or smokescreens are utilised.



Rather than seeking to defend or justify your views on this matter, Wei, I'd like to suggest that, you might find it useful to review this, from an objective stance.



You may, of course, choose to reject my suggestion and observations, as they come from a male, in which case, it seems to me, you are in the wrong place, as both CC and DJ, were male.

[Wei Shan Yang]

seren, actually I was not complaining at all. I'm just talking, seeing who will respond and how. Note how Wolf responded in this thread. Always in interaction are two variables. But when they harmonize, they become one. Here you harmonized with Turin and snowblind. Does that mean I am wrong or invalidated? I don't see it that way. I see it as you just prefer to think there are no gender issues. You could have just as easily agreed with my perspective and there would be no gender issues that way too.



Wolf pointed out the tyrant to me and how he as a man approaches her. I found it very exhilarating.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

The Sorceress forum was created as a direct response to the Shamanic Warrior forum thus a forum for women in the same vein as Shamanic Warrior.

[Guest]