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Wei Shan Yang made a most interesting entry about what she looked for in terms of guidance, so I would like to ask to the general audience of this Internet Forum what are the qualities that you think a guru should have.
Personally, I would like a guru that would look out for my evolutionary interests as much as possible. IOW, the chap or gal's drive should be making me awaken ASAP.
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The following is an extract from "I am That", a book of transcribed conversations between various people and a man named Nisargadatta, a recognized Maharaj in India.
Q for the questioner, and M for the Maharaj.
Q: Is there any causal link between my focussing the 'I Am' and the breaking of the shell?
M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse always comes from within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-enquiry whole-heartedly.
Q: Is not the grace of the Guru responsible for the desire and its fulfilment? Is not the Guru's radiant fact the bait on which we are caught and pulled out of this mire of sorrow?
M: It is the Inner Guru who takes you to the Outer Guru, as a mother takes her child to a teacher. Trust and obey your Guru, for he is the messenger of your Real Self.
Q: How do I find a Guru whom I can trust?
M: Your own heart will tell you. There is no difficulty in finding a Guru, because the Guru is in search of you. The Guru is always ready; you are not ready. You have to be ready to learn; or you may meet your Guru and waste your chance by sheer inattentiveness and obstinacy. Take my example; there was nothing in me of much promise, but when I met my Guru, I listend, trusted, and obeyed.
Q: Must I not examing the teacher before I put myself entirely into his hands?
M: By all means, examine! But what can you find out? Only as he appears to you on your own level.
Q: I shall watch whether he is consistent, whether there is harmony between his life and his teaching.
M: You may fine plenty of disharmony - so what? It proves nothing. Only motives matter. how will you know his motives?
Q: I should at least expect him to be a man of self-control who lives a righteous life.
M: Such you will find many - and of no use to you. A Guru can show the way back home, to your real self. What has this to do with the character, or temperment of the person he appears to be? Does he not clearly tell you that he is not the person? The only way you can judge is by the change in yourself when you are in his company. If you feel more at peace and happy, if you understand yourself with more than usual clarity and depth, it means you have met the right man. Take your time, but once you have made up your mind to trust him, trust him absolutely and folow every instruction fully and faithfully. It does not matter much if you do not accept him as your Guru and are satisfied with his company only. Satsang alone can also take you to your goal, prvoided it is unmixed and undisturbed. But once you accept somebody as your Guru, listen, remember and obey. Half-heartedness is a serious drawback and the cause of much self-created sorrow. The mistake is never the Guru's; it is always the obtuseness and cussedness of the discipline that is at fault.
Q: Does the Guru then dismiss, or disqualify a disciple?
M: He would not be a Guru if he did! He bides his time and waits till the disciple, chastened and sobered, comes back to him in a more receptive mood.
Q: What is the motive? Why does the Guru take so much trouble?
M: Sorrow and the ending of sorrow. He sees people suffering in their dreams and he wants them to wake up. Love is intolerant of pain and suffering. The patience of a Guru has no limits and, therefore, it cannot be defeated. The Guru never fails.
Q: Is my first Guru also my last, or do I have to pass from Guru to Guru?
M: The entire universe is your Guru. You learn from everything, if you are alert and intelligent. Were your mind clear and your heart clean, you would learn from every passerby. It is because you are indolent or restless that your inner Self manifests as the outer Guru and makes you trust him and obey.
Q: Is a Guru inevitable?
M: It is like asking 'Is a mother inevitable?' To rise in consciousness from one dimension to another, you need help. The help may not always be in the shape of a human person, it may be a subtle presence, or a spark of intuition, but help must come. The inner Self is watching and waiting for the son to return to his father. At the right time he arranges everything affectionately and effectively. Where a messenger is needed, or a guide, he sends the Guru to do the needful.
Q: There is one thing I cannot grasp. You speak of the inner self as wise and good and beautiful and in every way perfect, and of the person as mere reflection without a being of its own. On the other hand, you take so much trouble in helping the person to realize itself. If the person is so unimportant, why be so concerned with its welfare? Who cares for a shadow?
M: You have brought in duality where there is none. There is the body and there is the Self. Between them is the mind, in which the Self is reflected as 'I am'. Because of the imperfections of the mind, its crudity and restlessness, lack of discernment and insight, it takes itself to be the body, not the Self. All that is needed is to purify the mind so that it can realize its identity with the Self. When the mind merges in the Self, the body presents no problems. It remains what it is, an instrument of cognition and action, the tool and the expression of the creative fire within. The ultimate value of the body is that it serves to discover the cosmic body, which is the universe in its entirety. And you realize yourself in manifestation, you keep on discovering that you are ever more than what you have imagined.
Q: Is there no end to self-discovery?
M: As there is no beginning, there is no end. But what I have discovered by the grace of my Guru is: I am nothing that can be pointed at: I am neither a 'this' nor a 'that'. This holds absolutely.
Q: Is perfection the destiny of all human beings?
M: Of all living beings - ultimately. The possibility becomes a certainty when the notion of enlightenment appears in the mind. Once a living being has heard and understood that deliverance is within his reach, he will never forget, for it is the first message from within. It will take roots and grow and in due course take the blessed shape of the Guru.
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the reason im eager to respond is just yesterday, 9/2, i was recalling the advice of the nagual ive known since toddler days (not myself .
wed smoke some weed together and id get paranoid., mostly recently, he put his finger across his brow and said i think that's what you're looking for.
that's the guru chakra - place of reason, tonal, understanding in dj's energy diagram. also place where the flyer's mind injects its whatever thoughs, and place where the silend mind resides - guru. i think it means understanding and simplicity. without embelishment. i swear this question was adressed to me because yesterday was the first time ive actually understood what that finger meant.
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o ya, in philosophy of mind the same location, forhead, is the register of both satisfaction and dissatisfaction, like the two faces of the moon with a very fine line across the hemispheres determining or spanning the two. maybe it's goo rue.
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/philosophy_of_mind/
take a look at that first paragraph, but it's curious because it's the first search result when i tried to cite evidence of whats described above. gelatinous meatsack, and the google search mentions grasping reality with both hands, suggesting the one hand clapping zen quip to me, which if anybody has experienced firsthand can be pretty profound. goo rue
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"M: The entire universe is your Guru. You learn from everything, if you are alert and intelligent. Were your mind clear and your heart clean, you would learn from every passerby."
Me likey that one. Guru is inorganic.
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Good quote G. Most fitting.
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The universe isn't entirely inorganic.
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nor does it need to be.
Here's an experiment. Take your thoughts and pour them into a cup. Then take your memories and lay them on the table. Hold your opinions in your hand. File your emotions in a file cabinet. Take my thoughts here and pin them on the wall (without using paper of course).
What would organic be without inorganic? And vice verse.
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cream
the batter in
another bowl
mix well the batter it
blend the wet and dry chopped
spread the bowl cream
spread spread
spoon half
spoon the mix
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like your saying there lunoor lol . lmfao really. rofl.
just wanna take the opportunity to say. anybody seen gonzos eyes. see those eyes on people in your life too. those are people that look at things only as the foreign mind. they cannot see you for your freedom. and not wanting to peek from their perspective id wager that they're completely posessed. so yeah. didnt read gonzos post because it's total bullshit and doesnt get to the point.
certainly the whole universe is your guru fucking duh. but you cant be a goru if you dont open your eyes heart ears and listen. ive been battling that damn foreign installation for days and as it turns out theres absolutely nothing to do. but most of nature if you listen, will tell you that all you have to do is listen. and you can hear and see whatever you love, and the foreign mind will pass.
any ways guru is an aspect of attention. obviously to me it's a name weve ascribed to say the one who has the answers to our heart. and in terms of energy fibers it's the one single one, maybe not always the same, that goes furthest out. almost like indulgence but more of a tester.
anyways. guru is the silent voice, the heart, the light, the void, mescalito or his mescaline counterpart aguacollo. death, lunoor, the nagual lone wolf, the sun. but let's be brief about it we're trying to avoid a dialogue as i recall and sing together. dude love that lunoor didn't even read it till now but just sweet and abstract. and i wouldnt say anything about gonzo unless i were certain.
o and finally ive been alerted that my dreaming is well hidden even from myself. so if i act stupid or ignorant i apologize, but making the offer that a lot of people as i understand it are curious about peyote. as i was and still am, though mescalito can be introduced to a person who would pay attention. he answers the heart. so if you can call me in dreaming feel free and ill introduce you. or if you dont want, i got really lucky and stumbled across a san pedro in a thrift store the other day, got like 20 inches for $5, whereas 12 in online is 30. he's really got the same lessons as mescalito if youre interested in those things.
thanks for reading, i know that's a mouthful there. but just recently became very very connected again, where my attention had believed myself where i was attending the foreign mind. animals are so respectful, and in the words of one smiling horse, a baby who i gave a slice of pedro to, 'im just proud to be dancing beside the nagual'
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~
"Anybody seen gonzos eyes."
Yes, in person.
"They look at things only as the foreign mind."
Well, only when he tried to slip me the tongue when we kissed at the airport.
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@ Another Spirit -
If you would like to discuss the theory of the Foreign Installation I'd be glad to oblige in another thread since it doesn't seem relevant to the topic here.
In regard what I posted, those were the notions of a well respected Maharaj who himself was guided by another he considered his own guru. I'm of the opinion one cannot make significant advances without that sort of guidance. In that regard, don Juan himself seemed to say the same when he stated somewhere:
When an ordinary man is ready, power provides him with a teacher, and he becomes an apprentice. When the apprentice is ready, power provides him with a benefactor, and he becomes a sorcerer.
...and the Buddhist statement:
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
It seems to me, those most opposed to the notion of a guru/teacher/guide are those most afraid of what may be revealed about themselves. No doubt recapitulation is a necessary and powerful tool, however, in order to dig into the deeper and darker and avoided personal issues, a guru is required.
...and it's true that SHM is indeed a dreamer.
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I would need a guru that is erudite in the mystical,
and that would be versed in many esoterical systems, creative and free.
And I would want her to be very sexy...
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"It seems to me, those most opposed to the notion of a guru/teacher/guide are those most afraid of what may be revealed about themselves."
Gonzo, I'll just be direct and ask...do you include me in your perception expressed above? If so, just so you know, I do have teachers in the physical, so it would be an incorrect statement, and I like to clarify incorrect statements. Its like with computers...when you input incorrect data, the program will continue to operate on this info as if it were correct.
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Glad you enjoyed the guru mix another spirit. : )
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Wei Shan Yang wrote:"It seems to me, those most opposed to the notion of a guru/teacher/guide are those most afraid of what may be revealed about themselves."
Gonzo, I'll just be direct and ask...do you include me in your perception expressed above? If so, just so you know, I do have teachers in the physical, so it would be an incorrect statement, and I like to clarify incorrect statements. Its like with computers...when you input incorrect data, the program will continue to operate on this info as if it were correct.
No one is intended to be included...it's a personal opinion in general.
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Ok, well, since this thread developed from another thread...
No matter what info comes inorganically either through body or other object (such as a book), so teachers can be specifically designated or teachers can be everywhere, are everywhere and no where other than us.
Usually in threads things come about as a result of previous cause. This is an interesting topic, for me anyway. I do believe there is a threshold that can be crossed.
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in all honesty what i was seeing before is not there (may also be not not there). now i just don't know and have always wondered about your associations gonzo since your website. no ill intent.
and i would say that it is relevant here. we are talking about guru. true mind vs. bullcrap
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