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serloco wrote:This may be off topic as to what you are referring to but when i think of being stalked i immediately think of inorganic beings. The watchers. Now when i first started stalking the stalkers I had an active realization that changed everything. The realization was that these people around me are all watching me and observing me, reading my thoughts and seeing my awareness. When i say active i mean when i had that thought it immediately manifested itself. I started to stalk them closely, at the same time observing my inner thoughts. At first i could see subtle movements in their body language as I thought specific things. After a little while of stalking them they came out further and started commenting on my awareness and thoughts. SO every thought i had was being observed and then commented upon. The awareness that these beings were reading me like a book really hit me hard and made me a much better stalker. No longer did i have the privacy of my thoughts, instead everyone around me was telepathic. It was as if the realization transferred me into another parallel dimension. The stalkers were powerful and very aware, but were not running the show. They lat me come to my own conclusions, my own realizations and then changed themselves accordingly. So if i had a thought and accepted it that they were no longer aware of me, then they would act as if they had no clue what i was thinking. They taught me that my judgments about reality had the power to move reality, or alter it. This helped me immensly because if i had a bad judgment they would carry it out as if on cue, or they would warn me of my negative peril. I learned that these inorganic beings moved to our awareness, and so does the world around us. SO the best thing to do as a stalkee is to be immensly aware of your awareness and judgments. That includes all the knowledge and ideas you have about the world. Can these ideas be improved on, and what problems do i have in my awareness that can be solved. Having a bad thought, or negative judgment can mark the difference between life and death, or mundania and magica.
That was a pretty interesting read. I've noticed that when I do gazing and I see the awareness in everything it always reacts to me, like a strong exaggeration of my feelings. I've been having an idea lately that the IBs are of that same kind of awareness, just a more complicated and self-aware version of it. Sounds like your experiences suggest that to be the case, including the responding to our thoughts.
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serloco wrote:
NagualHuman wrote:How ?
Intent. You lay out a plan, with all your expectations, and you intend to witness energy directly, as it happens, and to understand, through seeing, what is happening. It'll come like a voice, or a conscious channel, that is described as seeing. It is direct and informational. Some have it naturally and are thus seers, some spend excess energy in other pursuits and miss it completely. Either way it is there you just have to listen to it. Stop the noise and listen and watch.
Isn't that happening from the day of our birth ? Seeing a some kinds of dreams; an energies taking form and meaning in between the scales of what is perceived ?
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Julio Juliopolis wrote:That was a pretty interesting read. I've noticed that when I do gazing and I see the awareness in everything it always reacts to me, like a strong exaggeration of my feelings. I've been having an idea lately that the IBs are of that same kind of awareness, just a more complicated and self-aware version of it. Sounds like your experiences suggest that to be the case, including the responding to our thoughts.
Yeah you are witnessing an inorganic life form. Telepathic in nature. They will move to your awareness, forming around your beliefs and your awareness of them. Since you perceive life in everything you have drawn that perception into your awareness. Its quite an astonishing feat really. I used to call them elementals. They can get quite advanced. Conscious life forms existing even inside of objects. I learned that they can pass through objects from one object to another, and even cast perceptions. Once i took a drink of my coffee cup and it puckered up and kissed me then cast a bedazzeled expression. It was pretty cool. They can be quite fun to play with. With practice you can have them bending reality for you, with you.
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NagualHuman wrote: Isn't that happening from the day of our birth ? Seeing a some kinds of dreams; an energies taking form and meaning in between the scales of what is perceived ?
It sounds like you are describing some out of reality states and your seeing was telling you stuff about then and there. in dreams your awareness and seeing is often very different. But it is still there and will still tell you about the world you are in.
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Nothing can be out reality,
what is there more than a need to get out of reality, into reality that would be the best possible realisation of it and us in it ?
This is all the teachings are about, understanding awareness and its function to dream, what makes it funny and tricky is that one is in reality going deeper inside the reality.
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NagualHuman wrote:Nothing can be out reality,
what is there more than a need to get out of reality, into reality that would be the best possible realisation of it and us in it ?
Sure it can, there are many realities, not just one. Surely while being technical you could say that reality is always reality, but then how would you discuss alternate realities or positions of awareness? You would call them all one.
What is more you say there is no such thing as being out of reality, then in your next sentence proclaim that we want to get out of reality. You nit pick words, then be a hypocrite yourself.
I am finding my conversation with you to be a waste of time. Until you do some actual work with your self-importance i suggest you refrain from commenting to my posts, or else think extra carefully about your content.
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NagualHuman wrote:Nothing can be out reality,
what is there more than a need to get out of reality, into reality that would be the best possible realisation of it and us in it ?
This is all the teachings are about, understanding awareness and its function to dream, what makes it funny and tricky is that one is in reality going deeper inside the reality.
Sorry about that, It is very interesting that the problems we see at others is only our own self-importance reflected, there is alot of studies and proofs about that.
What makes me wonder is that after all that "negative" "me-denying", stuff you wrote about me here, you even have the balls to say a complete lie about what I wrote
If the context of my messages somehow drains you, it is not my problem but only your own, I am posting here under the regular basis free speech and if you take anything personaly bad, it is of no concern to anyone who learns by every step
If it make you anxious, feel wastefull, that I have different view on reality, than you , I will be glad if you ask me directly on the question, without Third, Second and First Person used in the grammar.
I am not trying to play with words, all I do is trying to find a way between them, and you can see everywhere that the teachings are seem to be contradicting themselves, which is only illusion pertained, in reality contradiction is the only way how to neutralize the effects of the reality and progress deeper inside one's true self.
No hard feelings, bro...
I will do as you ask, I hope you too are able to change too
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I don't let people drain me, so no. I enjoy hearing other people's opinions and perceptions, it is what makes life so interesting. So many paths and so many ways to see and choose from. I would be an **** to only cling to my own ideas and disregard others. That is one of the reasons i enjoy the land of the living as opposed to my own self-made reflections.
I didn't call you a liar, i called you a hypocrite. You went ahead to find fault in my words then proceeded to use the same fault you pointed out. That is just silly.
I am all for peace and harmony, so i appreciate your words in that direction. I perceived you as being upset still over our first encounter and proceeded in that stance to find fault in my posts. Which you went ahead and did, a few times.
If i see any reason to change my ways i surely will, but as it stands i do not see any reason to change them.
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and you are so silly to do the exact same thing to me ? Does not sound like a way to withdraw from unpleasant circumstance
As I recall in the first encounter I did called the doings of humans as a unsignificant, that was from my now perspective a mistake, but I only ment it as a joke, then we had a discussion of about awareness, until I again made a joke, I tend to take things with ease so I make fun, because I feel that the knowledge and all that around somehow feel like "Highest grade" but in reality I dont see a difference in ability to cook or transverse awareness.
All the doings are made on the same basis that repeat itself over and over again, thus not doing... shifting importance.
actual response :
good than we have mutual intent - peace and harmony
in reality this **** we are in realy does not makes me any happier.
I think it will be better if you take all what I written as I write it for myself, in reality we are speaking only with ourselves, thats how I perceive reality.
also I write without any person in the grammar and that also lessens self-importance, when I do that at topics that tend to be personal it allows to shatter the self-importance fully, If I did it on the first occassion in the interaction with you we would not come to this problem, maybe... However I will not write anything in the previous sense again, and I wont deal with this self-protecting topic we started anymore , I am grown man enough to change my energy configuration anytime, so I hope, next time I meet you in universe far, far away from all that.
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I am not commenting on your jokes I am commenting on your awareness because i can see it. The same belittling awareness exists in countless self-important people. it is the same awareness that calls inorgaincs lesser beings. It is not a joke to me, it is a pitfall of awareness. It places you in that reality where everything is less then you. It is not a good reality to be in. It took me countless hours to figure that out on my own, and when i found that secret I was overjoyed. I started to meet awakened people like me, because i intended that reality into place. I suspended those judgements and got into another reality. I shared that secret to you, in hopes that you would make the same steps. It doesnt happen all at once but it is worth the effort by far. All the lesser beings in my world woke up, and started even to teach me! The inorganics i was working with made a billboard about it with teachers in the desks and students teaching the class. It is the spirit that bestows awareness to people and it is alive and active for everyone. If you can open to the connection that exists between yourself and others then you can begin to witness this amazing spirit. I made myself captive to my judgements of the lesser world, and trapped myself in it. i was the only one to blame because it was my awareness that pitted them there.
No we are not only speaking to ourselves. We are speaking to other energy generating beings. Atleast here we are. There are worlds where what you say is true, and we are speaking to our own selves, or dream characters, but this is not that place. We are separate people here, with different awareness. I am NOT you. That is just the truth.
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"If we understand ourselves fully, then we understand the world fully.
When that is understood fully, every experience is fullfilling." - Don Juan Matus
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Interesting, awesomely fascinating.
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serloco wrote:I am not commenting on your jokes I am commenting on your awareness because i can see it. The same belittling awareness exists in countless self-important people. it is the same awareness that calls inorgaincs lesser beings. It is not a joke to me, it is a pitfall of awareness. It places you in that reality where everything is less then you. It is not a good reality to be in. It took me countless hours to figure that out on my own, and when i found that secret I was overjoyed. I started to meet awakened people like me, because i intended that reality into place. I suspended those judgements and got into another reality. I shared that secret to you, in hopes that you would make the same steps. It doesnt happen all at once but it is worth the effort by far. All the lesser beings in my world woke up, and started even to teach me! The inorganics i was working with made a billboard about it with teachers in the desks and students teaching the class. It is the spirit that bestows awareness to people and it is alive and active for everyone. If you can open to the connection that exists between yourself and others then you can begin to witness this amazing spirit. I made myself captive to my judgements of the lesser world, and trapped myself in it. i was the only one to blame because it was my awareness that pitted them there.
No we are not only speaking to ourselves. We are speaking to other energy generating beings. Atleast here we are. There are worlds where what you say is true, and we are speaking to our own selves, or dream characters, but this is not that place. We are separate people here, with different awareness. I am NOT you. That is just the truth.
What....just what is THIS?
I highlighted parts in red I found most interesting. I'll save my commentary since I've probably criticized you enough for one day.
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I don't know if you realize this, but by you telling others what they think is wrong--is a form of belittlement. I know I'm doing that to you, so I'm wrong too. Like I've always said, we are both wrong. You just won't admit it.
On a lighter note, we're both right the difference is I let people go on thinking they're right (or wrong). You like to correct and tell others you are right and they are wrong.
What an injustice! Who the hell are we to tell others they are wrong? You're wrong, for telling people they're wrong. I'm wrong for telling you you're wrong. We're both assholes. We're in this together. Accept your limitations, your vast wrongness, and drink with me. Rejoice in your weak imperfections. They are beautiful. Weak is beautiful. Enslavement is beautiful. Stop frowning upon the weak. The weak is just another role.
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On the subject of right and wrong...
I've spent some time considering this. What makes a person "right" or "wrong"? If I believe something that turns out to be untrue, does that make "me" wrong? As I do not identify with my beliefs, I don't see how one of my beliefs being wrong can make me wrong. Further, I don't identify others with their beliefs, I think it's a dangerous habit that many people do which leads to fanaticism. Since I don't do that, I don't see other people as "wrong" either.
So.... what about the rightness and wrongness of beliefs? Well that's difficult because we never know for certain that any belief is true. There are assumptions contained in all of them. Don't buy into the myth that "assumptions are bad". Assumptions are unavoidable. I assume I had a steak for dinner. I don't know it, because my memory might not be correct. Perhaps I've been hypnotized into believing that and programmed to forget the hypnosis. Do I think that happened? No, I think that's very, very improbable. But to say that I know that I had steak for dinner does make the assumption that the hypnosis thing didn't happen. There is an assumption (usually several) in every belief. Granted I will occasionally use the phrase "I know" and speak about things as fact due to social convenience, but when I do that I am aware that I am doing it for that reason alone.
So then, am I saying that no beliefs are right or wrong? No. I think some things are true. It's just unfortunate that I don't know what all of them are. I'm pretty sure that some of the things I think are true are in fact false, but I don't know which ones they are, (or else I wouldn't think they were true). I think probably everyone I've met is also in this same state. Since we never know for certain what is true, the best that we can do is to recognize what is the most likely possibility according to the evidence we've seen. In my experience, people have no trouble doing this when they do not care what the answer is but just want to get the truth. They do, however, make it incredibly difficult for themselves when they have other motivations they hold above truth in determining their beliefs.
Currently, that's how I rate myself as being right or wrong in believing something. If I believe it because it's most likely true based on the evidence I've seen (and I'm not cherry picking my own evidence), then I say I'm right to do so. If I'm not doing that but believing something for other reasons, then I'm wrong in believing that. Note that this is different than simply saying "I am wrong" or "I am right". Also, it could be that the thing I believed according to the evidence I'd seen at the time later is shown to be more likely untrue based on future evidence. This doesn't mean I was wrong in believing it previously though. Similarly, in the opposite situation, (where I believe something that goes against the evidence I've seen and later evidence comes in showing that belief to be more likely true), I was still wrong in believing it when I did. Granted, sometimes the evidence is pretty close between different views, but the main idea is recognizing just how strong the case for a belief is.
So, what happens when someone proposes a statement that disagrees with one of my beliefs which is based on the evidence I've seen? Well, first I realize that this person has probably not seen exactly the same evidence I have. They may have seen all that I've seen plus one more piece of evidence that tilts the balance of likely truth to what they've proposed. Or they may have seen some things I've seen, but not all, and some things I haven't seen.
There's a few common closed-minded and arrogant responses I often see made immediately after a person has proposed a statement that contradicts another's belief and before they have time to provide the support for it. "That's ignorant" or "You're ignorant" can come up immediately. That simply assumes that the person making the accusation has more evidence for their side than the other person does before giving the other person a chance to present their evidence. Caricature-based reasoning will also often show up immediately. "You sound like a (insert caricature here)". A third common one tends to allow the person to just start explaining their reasoning and cuts them off with "I've heard your arguments before". Again, this is arrogantly assuming that the person has heard ALL of the evidence which is contrary to their belief, rather than the more realistic view that they've only heard SOME of that evidence and they don't know if the person they're arguing with has more evidence they haven't considered or not. There are many more ways that people can be closed minded and shield their beliefs from the possibility of outside evidence making them look more likely to be false, but I'd rather focus here on what a better thing to do would be. And that is simply ask for the evidence.
If someone suggests something to me that disagrees with my current belief, I'll often ask them for evidence to support their view, usually phrased as "Why do you think that?" or something similar. Even if it's something that sounds unlikely as the statement that 2+2=5 I'll still give them a chance to present their case. Now I doubt they will be able to provide a stronger argument for that than the evidence I've seen which says otherwise, but there's no reason not to give them the opportunity to try. Besides, there is a chance, (no matter how small), that they might be right. It could be that I only believe 2+2=4 as a result of a long series of highly improbably coincidences. I don't frame things in the ego-based way that "I've been so wrong" about things, rather I frame them in what appears both a more accurate and pleasant framework that if 2+2=5 I've merely been fooled by a massive conspiracy, no shame in that. So, I'll give the speaker a fair chance to demonstrate such.
So to summarize..
1. We are always right, regardless of our beliefs.
2. We are always right in our beliefs when we recognize what view is best supported by evidence, and how strong that evidence is.
3. We are always wrong in our beliefs when we believe things for reasons other than a desire to believe what appears most likely true.
4. We haven't seen the exact same evidence for our views as others we come into contact with, and when they state opposing views we should let them present their evidence for such.
By following these rules, I can remain a super-genius and still manage to disagree with the common folk without belittling them.
More to the point though, it offers a way to disagree with people without the belittling aspect of telling them they are wrong or trying to "correct" them. Asking them why they think what they do or "Well how does your view account for this evidence?" seems to be to be a better way to handle it, provided one is sincere and open-minded to hearing them out. Of course some people don't go for these things either, in which case I simply stop disagreeing with anything they say, unless there's consequences to not doing so I'd rather avoid.
Of course my way of doing things regarding this has an unfortunate side effect, in that many people seem to feel if I'm always questioning them it's a sign that I don't respect their intellect, while if I don't disagree with them I do. In truth this is backwards; it's the people whose intellect I like the most that I want to probe.
I would liked to have wrapped this all up and come to a nice neat point at the end here that relates back to the discussion at large, but I guess that didn't happen. Ah well, maybe next time.
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I suppose I ought to amend that last post in here as it's not quite valid for me anymore. I refer to "truth" and talk about "most likely truths" in there, however from a certain position whatever is most believed and intended is true. So I'll add "In a given framework, not being altered by, (even though it's upheld by), consciousness." to all references to truth in that post.
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Julio Juliopolis wrote:Recently a couple of generous members of this site have enthusiastically volunteered to help me by stalking me on a few things that tend to trouble me soon. To prepare for the events, I thought I'd look around in here to help me understand what I should be doing during them. While there's obviously a lot of information here about stalking, the stuff I've found tends to be written purely from the perspective of the would be stalker. As I think that the stalked has just as important of a role to play in the process, if not a more important one, I'm hoping to use this thread to generate ideas and suggestions about how best to be stalked. What techniques to use, what to avoid, and anything else of that nature. Also, any examples of a stalk in which you feel you benefitted greatly by or thought someone else handled well as a stalkee would be appreciated.
When I'm stalked, I love it when people do it with love and are detail-oriented. Dedication to the task is shown via energy, engagement, and entertainment. The best stalk I've ever seen was someone who never tried to deceive me. Imagine that, stalking someone without any deception; only love. She was the most beautiful mind I had ever set my eyes on--and I gave her to the only person who deserved her. The difference between like and love is this:
When I like a flower, I pluck it.
When I love a flower, I water it.
You did well being stalked, JJ. Excellent. I failed the same stalk you failed, so I'm no better than you. It's okay, the love game always gets people. It's why I crossed over to the light side; they still had beer and the better game. Instead of hating them, I joined them. It made all the difference.
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The stalkers must voice the intent in order stalk.
Which in return turns t their very personal intent by eyes on the intent of spirit,
and the stalker is free to proceed with changing his/her/heirs awareness - in the case of a group, moving the assemblage point.
On the contrary the dreamers has the unmatachable ability to hook their assemblage points in random location, in the shift that envelops and swirls the the dreamer of the dream into being.
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Ah, what an interesting distinction, Finwe. You're saying the stalker must use words to create a shift. That the dreamer merely moves to bring about shifts.
I wonder what a hybrid would be called. Someone who uses both words and dreams to induce shifts.
Dralker? Steamer?
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"Gone. Use Sen as point of contact."
I've used Sen as a point of contact before. He is gifted. He shared with me that interpersonal relations tend to be smokey, diluted, and variable. I am wise enough (given his words) to make sure I act to retain clarity in that regard. It would serve no one's interests and well being if I were not to stay atop.
Wheew. You rock kiddo. I am motivated from deep within. I won't be able to describe the extent of positive impact you continue to have on me. The world is smokey, diluted, and variable. You are very certain to me.
I don't want to monopolize the forum, so I'll see if a vacation is in order again.
Gone. Use your point in isolation.
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