Stalking Experiences

[SelfHealedMadman]

~
Feel free to post your Stalking experiences here!

[Mornings Son]

I got stalked numerous times here.

Stalked for a higher good and my own benefit.



Bottom line of my own stalking of myself is:

Willingness to look at what hurts, irritates, provoke and draw me

The 'juice' is in where is resistance and the best where there is denial..

[Guest]

I have been seeing a lot of this lately, the word stalking used to refer
to what people do to others.  I was always taught that stalking is to
be done of the self.  I understand it is possible to stalk another
person, but i think this gets closely confused with the stalking that ex
boyfriends sometimes do, ya know?  What are we achieving when we stalk
another person?  I don't see the point, unless it is in relation to how
we relate to them....
I'm just thinking out loud here, something I've been wondering about for a while.  Do you think it's soemthing that Lujan started and is perpetuating.. stalking
others and calling it a Toltec practise. 
Some of you have mentioned that you do stalk others.  I personally stalk weaknesses in my own self. For those of you that do stalk others, what is the aim or focus of this practice?  Are you looking for weaknesses in the other?  If so, what is the reason for this?  I can only see, that stalking other's weaknesses would be of use, if you were planning to attack them.  
Can anyone help me with this?
Here's a part of an article:
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/may3/luis.htm
We must dream with the purpose of stalking, to try to stalk who is within ourselves and see what our beliefs are.


We primarily stalk two things in dreaming: thinking (what is in the head) and heartbreak.


By heartbreak, I mean the incredible pain we feel from the terrible
things that have happened to us. When we feel the pain of heartbreak, we
close off parts of ourselves. In some way, we stop living. If the same
situation comes up again, we say, "Oh, no, I won't let myself be hurt
again!"


But this is no way to live. Life is so short and so incredibly
beautiful. It is such a gift. You must forgive yourself for experiencing
heartbreak. You must love the heartbreak in your life, because it is
part of living. Most importantly, you must create a better dream.


We also stalk to find the thoughts that keep us chained in "reality."
These thoughts that we think so many times limit us. If we can identify
these limiting thoughts, we can pull the energy back from their mental
patterns and create anew.


It is so important to take back these lost energies and share with the
world the gifts given to us from the angels and God. Heartbreak and
limiting thoughts are like a cage. They keep us caged, imprisoned, in
the three-dimensional world. The cage is created from the fear of being
the Self, of being authentic.


Lies and fears about our Self are the forces that keep us in the cage —
and they are not real. We must reclaim the key to our cage by pulling
the energy back from our thoughts and our heartbreak. In this way, we
become free.


Stalking in dreaming can be compared to opening gates. If a state of
mind or heartbreak has been identified in dreaming, then we find the
opening point of the wound, or the judgment, and we go in our memory to
the point just before it occurred. When we remember the time before the
memory occurred, we find a closing point for the wound — and then we go a
little further back in time, so we can avoid returning to the wound.


Now we can see an entirely different world, or movie. We have created a better dream.


It is possible to use this technique to open a gate and see a different view.


Julia: Can you explain a little more about using stalking to create a better dream?


Don José: Again, until we are free, heartbreak and thinking will
always appear in our dreams. This is because life is nothing but a
reflection of ourselves and our memories.


One way of using stalking with heartbreak is to relive all the
heartbreak in your life. Take one incident at a time and imagine that
you are pulling all of the energy out of that terrible experience.
Imagine it over and over until you can feel nothing when you watch
images in your mind.


Then take the experience and "dream" a whole different reality. See your
life moving in a different direction, a wonderful dream, with a happy
experience in place of the heartbreak. See the way that you want to
live, as opposed to how you have been living.


It is possible to do this with all of your life.So. here they speak of stalking the self, in order to free stuck energies.

[Guest]

Taisha Ebelar:
Stalkers stalk the self, and so when
they're with people in the world, they're constantly stalking themselves and
seeing what's happening.

[Guest]

The purpose of stalking is twofold: first, to move the
assemblage point as steadily and safely as possible, and nothing can
do the job as well as stalking ; second, to imprint its
principles at such a deep level that the human inventory is bypassed;
for example the human inventory's natural reaction of refusing and
judging something that may be offensive to reason.




Using the above words from Carlos as to the purpose of stalking, I wonder then, how does this fit in with stalking others?

[Guest]

Enchantra wrote:Taisha Ebelar:
Stalkers stalk the self, and so when
they're with people in the world, they're constantly stalking themselves and
seeing what's happening.

"I have been telling you that
sorcerers stalk themselves in order to break the power of their
obsessions. There are many ways of stalking oneself. If you don't want
to use the idea of your death, use the poems you read me to stalk
yourself."  don Juan

[Nu Lang]

Some of you have mentioned that you do stalk others. I personally stalk weaknesses in my own self. For those of you that do stalk others, what is the aim or focus of this practice? Are you looking for weaknesses in the other? If so, what is the reason for this? I can only see, that stalking other's weaknesses would be of use, if you were planning to attack them. - EnchantraWhen people get rigid in their views, that can be stalked. In the end, all our actions boil down to controlled folly...they matter and yet they don't. Stalking is a way to help others warriros understand and experience this. Help them over come obsessions and areas of rigidity, fixations, repetitious actions. All those things hold one in a prison of self.
Stalking of onesself is the most important maneuver and it never ends, but yes others can be stalked, and its not always a bad thing. In fact it is one of the methods given to usher in freedom, the nagual.

[Nu Lang]

http://sorcery.yuku.com/topic/3062?page=1

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:. Stalking is a way to help others warriors
I understand what you are saying, but I am just not sure that we can actually help someone by 'stalking' their weaknesses.  Self important maybe?
I thiink it is up to each warrior to stalk his or her self and then do what they deem necessary as a result of this stalking.  I don't feel like another person pointing out what we need to stalk is of any use at all.  Seems like a waste of energy to me.  If I am going to stalk anything, it will be myself.
That is the most efficient use of my energy.

[Nu Lang]

We don't stalk weakness, at least I don't. I stalk power. Liberation from fixations.



Truth is... stalking, the ordinary kind--for control purposes and to persuade and convince, is done all the time. So its better to do it for empowerment instead. First to see what is goign on with the ordinary stalking, second to be able to remove oneself from its influence (self stalking works for this) and third to help others see what is occurring so they too can be out of its influence and control.

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:We don't stalk weakness, at least I don't. I stalk power. Liberation from fixations.



Truth is... stalking, the ordinary kind--for control purposes and to persuade and convince, is done all the time. So its better to do it for empowerment instead. First to see what is goign on with the ordinary stalking, second to be able to remove oneself from its influence (self stalking works for this) and third to help others see what is occurring so they too can be out of its influence and control.I just don't understand how we stalk others to gain power ourselves.  (Sorry I am really trying here)
I understand if you say you are hunting power, I do that all the time.  That is how I arrived here.  Still having a hard time trying to figure out this stalking others thing.
Hey Nu Lang, are you able to move this stuff to the thread you created, so it's all in one spot?  Seems confusing to have so  many thread on the same thing.

[Gonzo]

There have been many discussions about stalking self and I've yet to encounter one that made any sense. In short, I've never considered it possible to stalk oneself, other than to attempt to answer "Who am I?". Stalking involves learning the habits and traits of prey, then setting traps to capture them. That's not possible in regard self, since most of self's habits and traits are things of which we are unaware. It requires the stalking abilities of a "teacher" who will grab you by the nape of the neck, hold you up to a mirror, and demand "Look at that". One cannot do that to oneself.

[Guest]

Enchantra wrote:Nu Lang wrote:. Stalking is a way to help others warriors
I understand what you are saying, but I am just not sure that we can actually help someone by 'stalking' their weaknesses.  Self important maybe?
I thiink it is up to each warrior to stalk his or her self and then do what they deem necessary as a result of this stalking.  I don't feel like another person pointing out what we need to stalk is of any use at all.  Seems like a waste of energy to me.  If I am going to stalk anything, it will be myself.
That is the most efficient use of my energy. 
I'm in complete agreement with you, Enchantra, and you've presented excellent examples from the literature.
This is not to say that we don't observe others' patterns, but if "stalking" comes into the equation, it's to stalk our own reactions to those patterns - and in fact, to take those observations as guidance for our own evolution.  We aren't obliged to "correct" anyone with our singular sight or perception. I'd go so far as to say that that habit of  "correcting" others is not a mode of "helping" others, but of asserting ego, in spite of all one's good intentions.

[Gonzo]

RaINbow DIAMOND UNICORN wrote:Gonzo wrote:
I've never considered it possible to stalk oneself, other than to
attempt to answer "Who am I?". Stalking involves learning the habits
and traits of prey, then setting traps to capture them. That's not
possible in regard self, since most of self's habits and traits are
things of which we are unaware.

Its not only possible, its a major point... to bring one's habits and traits from unawareness INTO AWARENESS... so one actually sees what they are doing and can change if needs be...


I agree with the process, however, are you implying there is no need for a teacher, that this can be done by oneself?

[Gonzo]

Windwalker wrote: I'd go so far as to say that that habit of  "correcting" others is not a mode of "helping" others, but of asserting ego, in spite of all one's good intentions.

Stalking others is not a matter of correcting others.  It's a matter of challenging them to look at certain aspects of their behaviors and beliefs, usually things so deeply ingrained and unconscious they are unaware of them.  The usual excuse for ignoring that sort of thing is to claim the stalker is merely asserting his ego.

[Guest]

Gonzo wrote:Windwalker wrote: I'd go so far as to say that that habit of  "correcting" others is not a mode of "helping" others, but of asserting ego, in spite of all one's good intentions.

Stalking others is not a matter of correcting others.  It's a matter of challenging them to look at certain aspects of their behaviors and beliefs, usually things so deeply ingrained and unconscious they are unaware of them.  The usual excuse for ignoring that sort of thing is to claim the stalker is merely asserting his ego.
That sounds good in theory, but how have you observed it playing out? Myself, I've seen it quickly devolve into altercations of the "enlightened" versus the "unenlightened". Some Toltec forums have been built on this sort of interaction, and I would submit that it's the exception rather than the rule that it doesn't produce a dis-spiritng effect, rather than a "more aware" membership.

[Guest]

Gonzo wrote:
There have been many discussions about stalking self and I've yet to encounter one that made any sense. In short, I've never considered it possible to stalk oneself, other than to attempt to answer "Who am I?". Stalking involves learning the habits and traits of prey, then setting traps to capture them. That's not possible in regard self, since most of self's habits and traits are things of which we are unaware. It requires the stalking abilities of a "teacher" who will grab you by the nape of the neck, hold you up to a mirror, and demand "Look at that". One cannot do that to oneself.I have to disagree. On this thread numerous quotes were posted from CC that stalking is primarily for the self. It can be done but it takes one being very objective. But I also disagree with En on stalking others. We most certainly can stalk others. However, I find usually such tactics to be a ruse and can be abusive to the other person. It can also be a way for an individual to avoid their own self, and what they need to work on, by obsessing with what is wrong with another. I don't clearly see what purpose such a thing could serve. Yes, we can aid others. But I find nine out of ten times that stalking others turns into an abuse of others.

[Guest]

datura8 wrote:
I have to disagree. On this thread numerous quotes were posted from CC that stalking is primarily for the self. It can be done but it takes one being very objective. But I also disagree with En on stalking others. We most certainly can stalk others. However, I find usually such tactics to be a ruse and can be abusive to the other person. It can also be a way for an individual to avoid their own self, and what they need to work on, by obsessing with what is wrong with another. I don't clearly see what purpose such a thing could serve. Yes, we can aid others. But I find nine out of ten times that stalking others turns into an abuse of others.
  That sounds like good observation and conclusion to me, Datura.

[Guest]

I guess my main question, in regards to stalking others, is why does a seer need to
Or want to stalk others? How is that even relevant?

And yeah like datura says, I feel that stalking of others may be an avoidance of doing work on self.

[Guest]

Enchantra wrote:
I guess my main question, in regards to stalking others, is why does a seer need to Or want to stalk others? How is that even relevant? And yeah like datura says, I feel that stalking of others may be an avoidance of doing work on self.The only purpose I could see stalking others is if someone was seeking a true mirror. For example, say I am really turned off by something someone does, I find it annoying. I can stalk the issue, maybe even bring it up to them, what annoys me, and check their reaction. But I will probably find, like many others find, that what I despise in another, is a quality I possess myself. Then it is a projection of my own issues. From that, I could also venture to learn something about myself.
But I think stalking should be primarily for the self, us to find out where our own weaknesses lie. Others can be good mirrors but stalking others can be a huge waste of energy too.

[Gonzo]

So, bottom line, y'all believe you can effectively stalk yourselves without benefit of any "teacher"?

[Gonzo]

Spirit is a teacher? I sincerely doubt that, any more than the nagual is a teacher. If anything is "taught', in regard either, is how we may interact with either.

[Guest]

Gonzo wrote:
So, bottom line, y'all believe you can effectively stalk yourselves without benefit of any "teacher"?
Hi Gonzo! Teachers are valuable and can be the best mirrors of all. But do they stalk us, is the question? It's hard to say. They can point out our weaknesses and may even use deception to get to us, but it's difficult to say they use the art of the stalk to do it.
What is stalking, is the true question? Stalking the self is using oneself as a mirror to 'catch' what is hindering them on the path. This can be done effectively if one has the drive, and the personal power to make it so. If they can be brutally honest with themselves it can be done.
When I stalk myself I am using my whole awareness to find my shortcomings, and over come them. I look at myself objectively and honestly to see what I have to work on. I am only kidding myself if I sugarcoat such things, so I use brutal honesty. I use other people as mirrors of me, (not by stalking them but myself), to see what makes me tick, cause we can use such things in relationship. But true, teachers can be valuable to us. But at the same time one can get dependent on a teacher too, and that is not good when that happens. Worse yet if the teacher encourages us to be dependent on them!

[Gonzo]

Stalking is the art of capturing prey.



1. to pursue or approach prey, quarry, etc., stealthily.

[Gonzo]

I remain of the opinion that stalking self is not only an impossibility, it is a fruitless activity. It's conceivable this is another con by don Juan.