who wants to stalk?

[Blue totem]

For me the word ``stalking`` means; to observe from a distance and follow, in an obsessive manner...




If you are a stalker, maybe you can simplify the concept of stalking to me. I`m shure it has another meaning in the sorcerer`s world.

[grandspeculator]

Hi Blue.




I understand stalking (the shamanic stalking) as protecting or working towards the nagual.




What does that mean? Is seeing while being beyond the world (maya or the illusory world born out of body identification, visual reality and conditioning) or
working towards stopping it.




For instance: Someone insults you. If you feel insulted you are, in fact, viewing this event from the standpoint of your tonal. If you are established in your
nagual or working towards it you will look this sort of occasion as an eventuality of your controlled folly to deal conveniently.




If this person is someone of some worth, you can disregard his comments. If you need to get rid of him you may act out as insulted, make a big deal and **** a
little to get him out of your life. If he is a dangerous person you can say how very sorry you are and continue your merry business.




In anyway you are acting out or being discrete to protect your nagual or cultivate it.




As a side note self-importance is a part of the world, the residual self-bodily-image that keeps coming out. Stalking requires the constant disregard of this
image and, in time, the dissolution of it.




Self-important stalking is being a predator. Stalking from/towards the nagual is being an instrument of the Spirit.




It's easy to say anyway... not so easy to actually do. hehe!

[Nagual LoneWolf]

I have always said when asked this question: " A stalker arrives when he/she realizes they stalking what is stalking them." A stalker seeks chosen
assemblage points.

[Vrill]

Greetings GrandSpeculator,




Your well considered comments show that you understand much. Welcome!




Most things are not worth stalking. What things are worth stalking?




The things I stalk are the Second Attention, Wisdom, Right Motivation, Skillful Means, Objective Reality (that's the hardest one)




Being obsessive is not stalking, since we a lost in a dream of self-importance, which nullifies intentionality.




Stalking means having an Aim and being willing to work through the Resistance to one's aim.

[grandspeculator]

Hi Vrill. Thank you for your greetings and appreciation. Understanding I have, experience not so much and that's what is all about.




As for things worth stalking, I think that the world as a whole is a great training ground for stalking.




The tonals of the first attention are a magnificent challenge. If you can handle them effectively, you can handle everything and anything.




It doesn't get any more complicated in the second attention (I think).




It sure as hell gets more dangerous. Here you may loose opportunities, health, freedom or even your life.




In the second attention you may get trapped by inorganics, something very dramatic to say the least.




I try to use the concepts of Tibetan Buddhism and other schools for my stalking: I try to think that the world is a dream. If you think that you don't take
things personally or even seriously. You just do what you have to and try to enjoy the dream.

[Mornings Son]

As I get the toltec teaching on Stalking...




Stalking is a way to get to master oneself.


It is to find out the mechanics of ones reaktions, habits and ways.


When you know these things, you can let go of them and move towards freedom.




For me stalking is about to this.


These days i'm looking much at my need for approval from my wife on little things I do and why I indulge in sugar things. Another big one is my
'need' for comfort and silly small habits, like checking mail and forums every time I see my computer.




Stalking myself goes hand in hand with daily recapitulation.




Another starking target for me is seeing how to get people to wake up to a better way to live or function in life. This is part of my professionel job.

[echatle9wind]

Remember it is the nagual like grandspeculator said. When teaching it to an apprentice nagual, however,


it is merely behavior with people. Carlos is a stalking nagual, I think.


The Nagual is the conduit for the spirit; the name of the leader so to speak. The apprentice being manipulated simply acquieses and does it for the piss of
it. Do you have the stomach for it???

[Vrill]

Maybe I used the term Second Attention incorrectly. I tend to equate it with the Tibetan term "Rigpa", or Non-Dualistic Attention.


In other words, Mindfulness, awareness or experience that transcends subject and object.


But in order to cultivate it, we have to use the stuff from our ordinary life as MS helpfully suggested.


Distasteful People and Things that provoke us to react are ideal for studying ourselves and training our mind.


If we choose them for our growth, rather than reject them out of hand is to take a different path.




Is the nagual used in this sense to mean Objective Reality?

[grandspeculator]

Maybe I used the term Second Attention incorrectly. I tend to equate it with the Tibetan term "Rigpa", or Non-Dualistic Attention.


In other words, Mindfulness, awareness or experience that transcends subject and object.


But in order to cultivate it, we have to use the stuff from our ordinary life as MS helpfully suggested.


Distasteful People and Things that provoke us to react are ideal for studying ourselves and training our mind.


If we choose them for our growth, rather than reject them out of hand is to take a different path.




Is the nagual used in this sense to mean Objective Reality?
When I said Nagual I meant Spirit-Self beyond the Tonal.




Non-Dualistic Attention is apropiate in the stalking context, but not in dreaming. The Second Attention, in nagual terms, is the Dreaming Attention. Tibetans
don't really work dreaming the same way. They perceive the dwellers of the six bardos, not the energetic realities of the subtle world (as far as I know).




Nagual seership and tibetan buddhism is a powerful combination. You can take the best of both traditions.




As for Objective Reality... I don't think that exist below Nirvana. The subtle worlds of energy and the physical are very subjective. It takes great
enlightenment and great knowledge to be truly objective. It is remarkably easy to distort the perceptions of the subtle world or misinterpret them.




That is why a good hearted benefactor or Guru (or several ones) are needed for an overall development.




The history of Tilopa and Naropa speaks volumes of this fact.

[Guest]