REPOST: SeeSaw post on stalking.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

I find myself in the category of a stalker. It is the wierdest thing possible.I thought that castanedas books were difficult to understand. Assemblage points inorganics etc were a stretch at one time. That stuff is like bread and butter now.
There is a huge amount of info on stalking just not even mentioned. It is wierd beyond belief.Gazing down furrows of time is a great description of something that currently am hard pressed to describe any better. At times of waking lucidity i am aware that i have elcted to enter a tunnel and play out a particular role that is all encompassing and totally engulfing. It is not acting, and yet it is.
The whole thing is interlaced with the mysterious properties of 'time' in a way that leaves me quite baffled. I know of quite a few people that dream in the here and now. Different worlds etc. Thats is easy to understand. When i dream it is usually when fully awake and involves 'piercing time' in the here and now. For some reason my experiences of the double are in the future. Its difficult trying to wrap my head around how all this actually hangs together.

[Guest]

Sounds like an interesting experience, Seesaw. With time, there is no 'future'. If you take time out of the equation from you double's experiences, what are you left with? No pressure for an actual response just another angle to gaze at it from. Self stalking is often a revealing experience... or so I'm told. Ha.

[seesaw]

Its not just one experience its numerous numerous experiences.



Also I dont understand what you mean by 'take time out of the equation from your doubles experience'.

[Guest]

Ah.



Seesaw: "For some reason my experiences of the double are in the future. Its difficult trying to wrap my head around how all this actually hangs together."



- What I meant was time ... doesn't exist. However we use time as a relative benchmark to plan our activities because well... it makes things more understandable. When it comes to sorcery and accessing the double, the time restrictions we are familiar with in the waking state no longer exist in the dream state. Of course we may dream of future events but the guidlines for what is the past, present, and future are flexible. What if we're viewing the present but on a different plane?



Keep in mind, this is very subjective and I really have no idea or hard fast rules regarding the double, dreaming, or time. BUT what I have learned is that time is flexible and there are no rules or 'laws' in dreaming which means sometimes things are not what we perceive them to be. Essentially, I try to keep an open mind simply because I know so little.

[seesaw]

Yes conceptually i can understand that all time is now. Thats fine to say. Its easy and comfortable to think this.



When i dive into the metaphysics of assembalge points being just a fixed frequency of perception, and the fact that we are a luminous coccoon contain a vast array of posible frequencies, i can understand and sometimes 'see' this.



What i have a block with is this;

how and why when my AP moves to the place where the double is experienced, i experience things in the double that invariably come to pass in the here and now of normal everyday waking perception later on?



Sorry if this is long winded and heavy but this sort of metaphysical conundrum just makes me screw my face up cos i dont get how this works. I hate not understanding this sort of thing. My mind feels like it needs to grasp this in order to survive. Its metaphysically desparate, an itch i just cant scratch.



Currently I would posit that i have rounded up areas of usuable second attention that have focussed on these specific emanations concerning time. I just dont 'see' this yet though. So the answer is unsatisfying. Thoughts and ideas i dont really trust anyway. They are just like chimera.



Having second attention that aligns emanations of time differently to dreamers obviously leads to a very different set of experiences. All you dreamers are like a different species to me. Thats what you feel like from here. You lot baffle me. I understand why someone once described you all as a 'morbid' lot.



You know what, even focussing on this is making me trip again.



Cool!

[Guest]

HAHAHA. Morbid is the new sexy, haven't you heard? Actually though, you bring up good points and I'll happily admit, I had to reread a few of your sentences a couple of times to fully grasp the meaning of what you were saying here. Not that I'm retarded (well ok, I suppose that's a relative term) but some of this metaphysical stuff makes my head spin too. It's a matter of switching my perception and seeing it in a different way. Then there are the really nutty ones where no matter how many times I read their writing, it's complete gibberish to me. I often wonder why they can't turn their frequency down so that I can hear them! The obvious next question is why can't I turn my frequency up to meet theirs... or do a combination thereof. Why's communication so difficult when we speak the same language?!



You're right, it's easier to see ALL time as NOW. It gets complicated when the concept of 'now' is dissected though ... but for those who are just taste testing, it's probably not best to sit them down at a buffet ahead of time.



"What i have a block with is this;

how and why when my AP moves to the place where the double is experienced, i experience things in the double that invariably come to pass in the here and now of normal everyday waking perception later on?"



Laughs. Nice rephrasing. I'm going to deflect here (as all classy people who don't have the answer often do) and say that maybe you should stalk it! I actually no idea, I wish I did, that would answer a set of questions I have as well. I do know that we have access to everything it's just a matter of wanting and being capable of knowing. Reminds me of integrated soul consciousness stuff lately. I chalk it up to growth and focusing on specific areas... and this is not one of those areas I REALLY need access to right now. Reminds me of math actually... learning calc before algebra. Kinda funny thinking about it actually.



Soooooooo...... now this is making me wonder, what's the algebra in this equation? Where's the next stepping stone?

[seesaw]

Ok when in doubt, ask.

Who on earth should i go to to find the answer to something like this?

Who is the biggest cheese for anything as boring as this?

An email address or name will do.



Note. letter bombs will be sent to anyone saying 'go within and ask your inner awareness'.

[Guest]

Won't check my mail for a week.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Seesaw asks: "how and why when my AP moves to the place where the double is experienced, i experience things in the double that invariably come to pass in the here and now of normal everyday waking perception later on?"



If you referring to perceiving future events then the answer is your double can do that when you have it on the that AP...when trying to grasp the concepts of nagualism it always best to keep it simple and broken down to what the concept is really saying.

[seesaw]

Last night and this morning i had a very upsetting experience relating to the subject of time.



My ex wife turned up in my dream and we started to have an argument that was three years old. This was so real i had no idea it was a dream until i woke up.

I woke up from this in the same physical place i went to sleep, but in a different former version of me from three years before.



My shock of finding myself back in this place was so extreme that i was terrified to go back to sleep.

The sense of loss and despair i felt at the level of the double was nearly too much to bear. To suddenly find myself immersed in despair depression and suicidal thoughts again was beyond words.



To give anyone reading this an idea of the feeling I will point out that three years ago i was living in a stone ruin, in a foreign country, burning furniture to stay warm when it was 11 below outside. When i could face it i shared food with a cat. I had zero money. I was so depressed it would take me 3-4 hours to summon the willpower to ove 10 feet across the room to wash myself. Most days felt 50/50 wether i would actually make it to the end of the day alive.

This was the feeling i had again on waking.



I knew had woken up in a different version of 'me' and it felt wrong. I could just about remember who i was meant to be and the difference between the two was felt as a sensation in front of my body, a gap that was slightly more open than normal. I instantly had the thought that i was dying and I was desperate to return to normal.



I woke up fully, got out of bed and walked down stairs, then made tea, all the while trying to bring back the feeling of who it was that went to sleep the night before. It took nearly an hour and a half to feel safe enough to shut my eyes again and try to sleep more.



I dont remember falling asleep. I do remember waking up for the second time that morning, this time as who i am now.





Sometimes the stalkers experience is downright shattering.

[watergaze]

could you explain to me how this is a specifically stalker's experience? or you just mean because you are a stalker. I am not actually so sure what I am in terms of those two categories.



well like I said before, AP is all about states/feelings. I also experienced a coming back of past states. What is important is that if I feel back to some state and get that feeling back it is reality for me in the present. It is like time travel , in terms of states. The body (but not only) has just one time, just the present. If you remember something from the past it is the present for the you now. What you need is a good memo or key or footprint (however you wish to call it) to how you are when you feel fine. Or to your current you. This is the magic password. If you have that you can get back to the happy you anytime, if possible. If you have control.. if you have enough strength to do it.



Considering what you say about your experiences of the double being in the future. Please give an example (can be general does not have to be your real example) cause I am not sure I understand what you mean..

[Bob May]

seesaw wrote:

When i dive into the metaphysics of assembalge points being just a fixed frequency of perception, and the fact that we are a luminous coccoon contain a vast array of posible frequencies, i can understand and sometimes 'see' this.
What i have a block with is this;
how and why when my AP moves to the place where the double is experienced, i experience things in the double that invariably come to pass in the here and now of normal everyday waking perception later on?
My teacher used to say, "To repeat an experience, remember the feeling."
I once had an experience in meditation in which I was watching scenes going by me at great speed. I saw myself sitting on the side of a hill watching these scenes going by. The feeling was quite pleasant. I asked my teacher if what I was witnessing was the "Akashic Records." He said it was. I asked him, if I wanted to focus in on one scene how would I do that? Was I to speed myself up, slow the scenes down or tune in to them? He said to tune in to what I wanted to see.
He also used to say, "Just observe" and that we sometimes experience things beyond us and they will work themselves out later on.
Having second attention that aligns emanations of time differently to dreamers obviously leads to a very different set of experiences. All you dreamers are like a different species to me. Thats what you feel like from here. You lot baffle me. I understand why someone once described you all as a 'morbid' lot.
My dreams have always been different than most other dreamers here. I mostly wake up knowing something that I did not know. I don't remember much of my dreams but the tail end and what I am being taught. So I just observe and answers come to me. I am not too concerned that I am different or even what my gifts are. I watch and learn how Spirit deals with me.
I only occasionally have a lucid dream and a few precognitive dreams, but they don't mean that much to me. It used to bother me but not anymore.
I may never find someone who's gifts are exactly like mine and so I may never be able to get an "explanation." 
No big thing. I will come to understand in time the things that come to me.
So I just observe and walk the path that I am dealt.
The Spirit knows better than me what I need.

[seesaw]

Well i will briefly outline an interesting experience i had a short while back . Its not really the double experiencing the future, more a case of what happens when the tonal shrinks to allow the nagual in. But its a good one anyway. It certainly haunted me.





I was driving my car through the countryside to get to the shops. I was feeling pretty low and depressed as i had just lost a good friend of 13 years. I turned the music on in an attempt to overwrite my mood with music. All in all i was pretty wrapped up in my own sense of misery and displacement in life as i drove along the road. My whole world was focussed inwards and i was feeling really really ****.



Half wrapped up in my own thoughts I saw a car some distance into a field up ahead. It was facing the wrong way and looked pretty smashed up on one side. A figure was walking around it looking over the vehicle. I guessed that the car had left the road after an accident rolled a few times then came to rest. Thats what it looked like as i drove past.

Normaly i would have stopped to check and see how recent it all was, past training habits and all that, but today frankly i couldnt really give a damn. I was feeling lousy about the world and didnt feel like stopping.



As i reached the brow of the hill and passed the vehicle i saw that the figure that had passed around the vehicle was not there. There was no one there at all and no place they could have rationally disappeared to.

'Strange' i thought to myself, maybe i had seen the spirit of someone inside, maybe someone who had died. I have seen this sort of thing before after all. But heck no i was still not stopping, i was too upset about other stuff. and all this passed through my mind in a fraction of a second as i sped past and promptly forgot about it still caught up in feeling **** and confused about the world.



20 minutes later i was driving home, the same road, just the other direction. The car was still there in the field tracks leading into the field and smashed glass everywhere. My mood was completely different now, almost at one with the world. Curious about what i had seen before i decided to stop this time and see if there was anyone in the car.



I pulled over, off the road, and walked 50 yards out into the field to where the broken vehicle was resting. I walked over to the drivers side, saw there was no-one in it, then walked around the front of the vehicle to the other side seeing if there was anything interesting left inside.

At this point i realised that my path around the car was exactly the same as what i had seen before as i drove past. I had a sudden realisation 'I had seen myself walking around the car'.



For those that question such things, well yes i understand such questions, all i can say is that there is a bodily knowing that sometimes comes concerning such things. My body knows what it saw.

[watergaze]

ah, good that you clarified. I was not sure if you did not just mean that you experience (dream) what will come to pass.

I also experienced once something like what you describe.. But I actually interacted with myself in a different form. It was a dream. I helped myself out. Well first somebody helped me out and I had no idea until a sometime later when I was in the position of that someone and was helping the past me, so to speak.

These things are quite thrilling .

[Guest]