SELF-Importance

[Nagual LoneWolf]

After studying the teachings of Don Juan and adapting them for guidelines in my own life at the ripe old age of 13, I have come to some conclusions/opinions. People write about self-importance in these types of forums alot. It is constantly a main subject title. I feel like most are missing the meaning of what it means in Nagualsim. I shall tell you how I studied the teachings. Carlos Castaneda wrote a series of books. Each one built off the previous book. There were three books where he wrote about his relationship with the shaman Don Juan. The final book Tales Of Power was the ending and beginning in the tales. It ended the Don Juan as a living person on this planet because it is the book where he and his party of warriors left this world together. The following books dwelt with Castanedas return to Mexico, his remembering of the teachings from Don Juan. His journeys into dreaming. His exercises to enhance sorcery awareness. Finally his last book which taught of the foreign installation. After each book, I would read the preceding book(s). By this method one is able to see what has been introduced and how it relates to the preceding information. One important aspect called self-importance mentioned frequently in all the books was last addressed in the final book pertaining to the FI. SI is not about being humble or walking lightly on our planet. Its not about turning the other cheek or being meek and quiet. Its not about LOVE or thinking your better than others or vice versa. The teachings of self-importance have only one goal. To stop the foreign installation! The FI is the voice of self importance. This is the first tactic it uses to make you start to do what it wants. Self importance training is to subdue the FI not make you a better person but to make you have control of yourself. The topic of self importance belongs here in this forum to help you get over the FI not yourself.-Lone Wolf

[snowblind]

As I have posted in the past...isnt it completely possible that the FI is an analogy for our own self? The lies we have integrated as truth? FI is the voice of self importance, within ourselves. We have an amazing ability to overcome the urges and voices that would cause to react and act without SI that has nothing to do with a third party, that is not ourselves.

[snowblind]

The fight is not without, it is within.

[bluedreamer]

I saw a vision of something once before i had heard of the FI, it could have been called the flyer of the ages--a huge black shape in the air and thousands of eyes riveted on it, giving it their attention = energy, sounds so much like the flyer---taking people's attention and energy. I am getting free from that whateveritis.





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Lonewolf you are probably correct from the teachings point of view(i haven't finished the books) and it feels right for you but for me love is the motive=energy for ridding myself of this thing, love of every taste of freedom that I get and love for myself as I came here and certain people in my life, who are the spirit's manifestation in form hoping for a gadzillion views! Let me help it along by getting rid of this self importance bit by bit and this foreign installation thorn. I cant confirm its energetic structure or say what it is but I know some thing  is there.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

True the fight is within. Bluedreamer..love is the most powerful weapon against the FI, in y humble opinion but it must be tempered with intent.

[docta lee]

Awesome, thanks for this Wolf

[Hawkeye Crow]

I see what you are saying, Lonewolf; you have narrowed the focus of the topic. But, does one not , shall I say, heal, by dealing with this?
What I got from it was limiting complaining, focusing on blessings. I have become more sensitive to complaining and gossip that others engage in, wanting to sidestep it. A realization that we indulge in being unhappy, revel in it. Picky judgementalism, carp and gripe, no solutions in view. It's like if we were not miserable, we would not know we were alive!
There's much more in my thoughts, but I can't focus now, it has been a long workingday. Hopefully more to come from all , here.
And this, which keeps nagging my mind: Be careful what you wish for, you may get it! Thought =energy=manifestation

[koomw]

mind-opener

[Turin Otzaki]

"limiting complaining, focusing on blessings"



wow, thats pretty much ALL we need to do...well said Hawkeye.



I find the whole topic of the FI facinating. I dont know if it is really an entity outside ourselves or not, but in a way the answer to that doesnt really matter-cos the fact is that it ACTS like a foreign entity, and it is from one perspective our enemy to be fought every breath of every day. I do this by stalking myself constantly to examine my motives in everything, as well as maintaining focus on the heart and all that goes along with that- gratitude, compassion, love (not the muShy sort!)....



However the world we live in seems to depend on duality for its manifestation-light dark, night day, up down, in out, male female, old young etc etc and so it makes sense that evolution and involution exists as part of that duality. So from that perspective the FI isnt a 'mistake' or some evil thing that crept into our sector of the universe but is actually part of the design! And our struggle with it, to rise above it or however you want to put it, is how we actually build our spiritual muscle. Much like when on an exercise machine we need to increase the resistance (the weights) to keep getting stronger. So yes, the FI is our enemy, and yet from a larger perspective, it is our friend - in dealing with it we get to develop ourselves. It reminds me of the old saying that the Devil is the gatekeeper of heaven...he sists there making sure 'unpure' souls dont pass through. Not that I belive in heaven, but I like the idea that the forces of resistance have their place, and so we can on a deeper inner level SAY YES TO IT ALL. lol

[Nagual LoneWolf]

My belief: The FI keeps mankind from realizing its true spiritual nature. Without the FI we are able to become truly attuned to the universe and its emanations. Losing the FI will allow you to construct your own internal dialogue and manifest your magical body to its original form. Remember we feed the FI. It eats from us our coat of awareness. With the FI gone, one can grow it back. Sure the FI helped primitive man build cities, organize, and helped him become the highest form of life on this earth. We as primitives welcomed the FI. We as advanced human beings on the path of enlightenment need to discard the FI and cut its influences from our bodies and mind. It is a parasite, to it you are cattle. Its intent is to feed off you and in return gives you manifested dialogue you do not need to survive. Mankind will destroy itself and this planet and all animal and plant life because it has this parasite directing it. Our only path to survive such a destiny is to become spiritual beings who have awakened to the concept of the foreign installation, taught its meaning in our schools and developed ways/technology to rid ourselves of it.

[bluedreamer]

Wolf, can you speak some more about tempering love with intent?





Hawkeye, I had to stop focusing so much on the very ills of civilization and the fi, it was killing my motivation and love and I realised that my focus on it was keeping me trapped. My internal dialogue these days is much less fi influenced, the worst of it is gone but I can't say that it is entirely gone. I agree that healing comes with the work.

[bluedreamer]

Wolf, I think school was invented by the FI element, children learn better in their home environment surrounded by mostly joyful parents, other adults and other kids, We would be best off living as tribes and villages again. I have seen it with my closest friends who homeschool theirs and we all live as simply as possible and help each other out, opting out of the larger surrounding cultural lies as much as possible. The FI element brought with it a warped institutional lifestyle that we suffer under. Domestication=dumbestication. It steals the best of us and keeps us immature and under thumb. Much like cattle as you said. I think of how it has been shown that domestic dogs are more like immature wolves, rarely reaching adult competence; it is seen with domestic chickens who often don't know how to brood their eggs. It is seen with many domestic plants that die out without human intervention though there are some who still have enough of the wild in them to spread and grow without us.





I hope to see us return to our wild roots as much as possible.

[Wei Shan Yang]

tempering love with intent?



Perhaps that we love freedom more than life itself.



But not at the expense of life itself.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Shalom, Lonewolf!
Haven't been able to get by here often enough.
Yes, I have considered the meaning of 'Self-Importance'.  This is how I see it:  there are many men and women in this world who control great powers; powers political, financial, technical. But, all of them have something in common with the rest of us: few can control their own Minds (and some other areas as well, haha) . That's it, isn't it? Surely there were a few examples of this lack of control in Castaneda.
If one becomes a better person, or if social worlds improve, that would be a side effect of throwing off the FI. And, perhaps,  focusing on the FI keeps us focused in the way of the warrior, to not be diverted by details.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Hi Hawkeye,

Nice to hear from you. So I was reading your post and it drew my attention to read LoneWolf's original post here and pulled out this nugget:



The topic of self importance belongs here in this forum to help you get over the FI not yourself.

-Lone Wolf



I whole-heartedly-agree.



The beauty of our battle is we are not defeated by self-importance, but rather the self-importance that was defeating us gets eliminated!
And I whole-heartedly-agree with you that focusing on the FI keeps us on the way of the warrior, so true! That's why its so beautiful, we are fighting an enemy that is not us. Any of us.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Hello Wei

Breakfast at Tiffanys?   Makes me think of Liberace. Now there was self-importance!


One thing I have learned in this area is that many of us have powers. For many years I did not understand what was happening to me. Now that I know what some of those powers are, I also know that self importance, among other cultural overlays, block those powers. I have found that when my mind is silent and clear, they operate at their best. If I were younger, I could devote more to that goal, broaden those powers.  What will be, is. No regrets. Just knowing the answers is quite fulfilling.


Another topic:  For some time I was skeptical of Depak Chopra.  Lately, I have been receiving weekly updates from his site, through care2. I have found his remarks to be on target more often than not. But the real reason I bring him up,  is that his most recent posts have referenced  'the Second Attention' , in a way that seems not far from what is here.  


I am absolutely convinced that these powers are a human birthright, much lost to the FI


Yes, you have identified the warrior's struggle. And, it is good to wrestle with IB's and FI's rather than angels and demons, for we remove dualism from the issue. Predators. I have no gripe with snakes, skunks and bears! I know my place, they know theirs, and attempt impeccability when on their turf! No need to be unnecessarily controlling, angry or deadly.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Hi Hawkeye,



Yeah my mom named me after the movie. Liberace was definitely flamboyant. Its hard to gauge self-importance by how a person behaves, some people are natural entertainers, and it actually takes a dose of humility to be silly, weird, eccentric, or daring at times. I learned this from a drama class I took, that to entertain in front of an audience you have to give up some rigid ideas about yourself.



I remember I had some books by Depak Chopra, and also he did two cds a while back with music and famous actors reciting poems or singing,...the poems of Rumi. I like Indian mystics, I guess he could be considered a modern one? I know he weaves many perspectives together and I'm sure he's read Castaneda.



Yes, agree. I think as new seers, the attention on the abstract is what is emphasized, removing dualism from the issue, as you said.

[Hawkeye Crow]

Actually, I mentioned Liberace as I had heard some testimony about his ego, attributed to his partner,  yesterday.

Last night, I found myself going deeper as to self importance and it's relation to sorcery. I refer to the don Juan story where he had to disguise himself as a woman to escape Julian's ally.


What I see here is that to eliminate one's squeamishness about situations ( as well as learning to overcome bias and step into another's shoes, women in this case) , don Juan was able to perform an act of sorcery, to manipulate perception, as taught by Julian, and accomplish a desired end thereby. To me, this is profound, because it contradicts all I was ever taught about honesty and morality. It's about survival in a predatory world, something I wish I had known decades ago. It is a fine strategy!


So, to eliminate self importance not only defeats the FI, it gives the individual power to act!


Here's one of those Chopra-ism's I spoke of:


You Are the Light of the World


posted by Deepak Chopra
Nov 24, 2010 4:00 am


Through second attention, you can perceive yourself as awareness itself,
not as one of its products and creations. There are many ways to catch such
glimpses: Meditating to reach inner silence; sensing the purity of nature;
sudden flashes of innocence; an impulse of love; an intuitive connection to
your muse; sensing inner guidance (the 'little voice'-HC),  a source of wisdom; a feeling that you
belong in the larger scheme of life.


Consider if you have ever experienced such things; begin to notice them
now, and be on the lookout for those moments when you can sense something lies
behind the veil of appearances. Even though we all live by first attention and
therefore lose our selves in constant activity, we are also equipped to
perceive the world through second attention.


Whenever you have a flash of love, innocence, inspiration, awe, wonder,
or joy, remind yourself: This is the real me. Don’t let such moments simply
pass you by. Stop and appreciate them, and ask that you receive more in the
future. In this way you open a feedback loop between first and second
attention.


You will continue to view the physical world as such, but its
significance will change. You will start to see consciousness at work, Being in
motion. In this way, the realms of change and non-change begin to merge. Light
starts to enter the world, until the world is eventually seen as made of light
and nothing else.


Adapted from The Third Jesus: The Christ We Cannot Ignore, by
Deepak Chopra (Harmony Books, 2008).

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Nice to see you back Hawkeye! Great intent you have written my friend.

[Wei Shan Yang]

Hawkeye, interesting that you mention Julian, as was thinking of him too...Julian was the consummate actor, could play any part. Julian above all captured this, beingness, that is no one particularly, and any one specifically. Adaptivness. And the main thing about Julian is he applied his skills to help the warriors in his lineage. That gave his acting a true purpose.



That's a great except from Chopra, Hawkeye.

[serendipity]

Hi all,
         I do,nt think, it really matters whether self-importance is due to the presence of an "FI". or, is inherent in ourselves, as, the effects are the same, either way,(as you say, Turin,).
NLW,........you say, "The teachings of self-importance have only one goal. To stop the foreign installation!".
Not sure about this, at all.
I'm not saying, your view is wrong, just that, my own experience has taught me that, one of the primary reasons for trying to eridicate SI is, to prepare you for contact with IOB,s.
Without such preparation, anyone who instigates a relationship with IOB,s, will find it VERY difficult, to resist the subtle flatteries, and promises of power, that such interaction offers.
You also say, "SI is not about being humble or walking lightly on our planet. Its not about turning the other cheek or being meek and quiet.".  
I do,nt really, agree with that view, although, I think, I can see the point you are trying to make.
Being meek and quiet, ( as one of DJM's companions is,), can be seen as, a strategy to save energy.
I do agree that, the goal of SI training, is to give you a degree of control over yourself.

Speaking personally, I do,nt buy the FI idea, as, it seems contradictory to me, although, as I said, it does,nt matter.  I can,t help wondering,.............if the IOB,s trap you in thier world, what does the FI do?  Become a prisoner?  Hand over custody?  The two predators, would obviously, be in competition, no?
When, exactly, do people imagine that, FI appeared as our symbiotic partner?
At the advent of civilisation?  At the start of the Neolithic period?  The Mesolithic?  The Paleolithic?
A study of archeological  records, as known today, indicates that, man's inventiveness, grew slowly, by increments, like a ball rolling down a shallow slope, picking up momentum over time, rather than, a sudden flowering, as people seem to think. If the FI suddenly partnered up with us, I would think, it's influence, would be immediately apparent.
Despite popular misconceptions, no such sudden jump in capabilities is apparent.

 

Whilst on the subject of SI, I feel it should be pointed out that, selfishness, is the inviolable rule, in nature.   Our genes, are so selfish that, they do,nt even care about us, as individuals,........,merely, the genetic line.

In this sense, |spirituality" could be viewed as anti-evolutionary.



Well, thats my drivel, over, for today.  If you have taken the time to read it, I thank you for your stupidity.

[Turin Otzaki]

If you have taken the time to read it, I thank you for your stupidity.



ROFL !!! That was such an unexpected end Seren!



Yes I feel it doesnt really matter if the FI exists or not, fact is it appears to work the way DJM put it forward. There does seem to be something attached to us that jealously guards our awareness, tries to hold us back...It might even be part of the 'design' - that something internal is needed that resists growth, in order for us to make the effort to grow....like the weights on an exercise machine. Viewing it as a Foreign installation helps us to own up to things inside, to disidentify....cos its not really 'us' so its easier to admit to stuff....So I act as if the FI exists.

[Guest]

serendipity wrote:A study of archeological  records, as known today, indicates that, man's inventiveness, grew slowly, by increments, like a ball rolling down a shallow slope, picking up momentum over time, rather than, a sudden flowering, as people seem to think. If the FI suddenly partnered up with us, I would think, it's influence, would be immediately apparent.
Despite popular misconceptions, no such sudden jump in capabilities is apparent.

 

Whilst on the subject of SI, I feel it should be pointed out that, selfishness, is the inviolable rule, in nature.   Our genes, are so selfish that, they do,nt even care about us, as individuals,........,merely, the genetic line.

In this sense, |spirituality" could be viewed as anti-evolutionary.
A couple comments after reading this Serendip~!
First, I missed the post that said the FI "suddenly partnered up with us."
Also, I think that a distinction needs to be made between selfishness, as that of our genes, and self-importance. 
And one more thing, I think, when looking at studies etc done on the human population, it should be noted that, while these studies may seem to have proven a thing to be true or untrue, sorcerers, as a rule, at least in my view, don't necessarily fall into the same category as the avg man and so these studies are pretty much irrelevant to us, that is, the same rules do not (always) apply.
Of course, if you do not consider yourself a sorcerer, then y ou are more than free to limit yourself to what the studies have shown to be real, true, or possible.

[dreamways]

snowblind wrote:As I have posted in the past...isnt it completely possible that the FI is an analogy for our own self? The lies we have integrated as truth? FI is the voice of self importance, within ourselves. We have an amazing ability to overcome the urges and voices that would cause to react and act without SI that has nothing to do with a third party, that is not ourselves.
The FI is not an analogy, nothing in sorcery is, that is what makes it different from psychology, among other things.

[dreamways]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:After studying the teachings of Don Juan and adapting them for guidelines in my own life at the ripe old age of 13, I have come to some conclusions/opinions....

Since you are on the inorganic path, not the nagualist path, what is it that the inorganic beings say about self importance? The last time I asked them about it, they said a sorcerer should cultivate self-importance if they want to stay with them. They told me that you won't miss the energy that the FI takes in their world the same way that you don't miss it here, so curbing your self-importance serves no purpose with them.