What do you believe?

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Do you believe you are in full and total control of your thoughts? Do you ever have thoughts that you feel are not yours? Urges not yours? Desires or wants
...not yours? Ever feel evil? Want to kick the dog or yell at the kids? It is my belief there is something inside you that IS NOT you. It wants to hurt and is
inherently evil. It is called the foreign installation. A being that enters your mind and lives on your body. It eats your magical energy. It takes away from
you many spiritual powers. It is the one enemy you must defeat in order to become a sorcerer. A warrior is one who battles for his freedom. A man of knowledge
has awareness of the foreign installation and controls his internal dialogue. A sorcerer defeats the F.I. What do you believe?

[docta lee]

Hey Wolf




Happy New Year




I believe all of what you said.




Thanks for the reminder.

[Gonzo]

I believe the notion of the Foreign Installation is a lame excuse for poor behavior. However, it may work as a tool to help identify those things about self
one finds objectionable or detracting from their path.

[quantumshaman]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:

Do you believe you are in full and total control of your thoughts? Do you ever have thoughts that you feel are not yours? Urges not yours? Desires or wants
...not yours? Ever feel evil? Want to kick the dog or yell at the kids? It is my belief there is something inside you that IS NOT you. It wants to hurt and
is inherently evil. It is called the foreign installation. A being that enters your mind and lives on your body. It eats your magical energy. It takes away
from you many spiritual powers. It is the one enemy you must defeat in order to become a sorcerer. A warrior is one who battles for his freedom. A man of
knowledge has awareness of the foreign installation and controls his internal dialogue. A sorcerer defeats the F.I. What do you believe?
I believe the foreign installation is what I have come to call "The Program" or the overlay. It has elements of Jung's
"collective unconscious" but that's just the tip of the iceberg. What is the program? Basically the "shoulds" and
"shouldn't's", the rules and regulations, and most of all the belief systems of the consensual reality. Put another way, the program is the
operating system under which all humans function until such time as they realize they are being more or less controlled & manipulated by a paradigm which
is not their own, and whose sole intent is to ultimately kill them.




Now... do I believe it is sentient or sinister? Personally, no. I don't see that. It's just a program created by the collective, the consensus - but
it is a deadly one because it will ALWAYS adhere to the lowest common denominator of thoughtless (literally) behaviour, and it will shout in our ear from dusk
to dawn that we are... fill in the blank... worthless, brainless, dickless, witless, and so on. And it will convince us that we are beings who are going to
die, when the reality of that may be very different for those who take the time and energy to overcome the program itself. In the 'tenant' thread,
we're talking about recapitulation as a possible tool for 'not dying'. I'm still not sure if the participants there are referring to longevity
or actual immortality, but either way - clearly these are people who have defeated the program sufficiently to work outside of its frequency band.




I realize a lot of warriors see the foreign installation as a sentient or even extraterrestrial force, but to me it has never presented/manifested that way.
It's just the drone of the consenss - on auto-pilot, with no sentient force at the helm. It's doing what it was programmed to do - to essentially
thwart human evolution - largely because the universe has seemingly built-in default programs whose sole function is to do just that... thwart human evolution.
Why? Because if it were easy, if it were a straightforward path to an easily-seen goal, it would not be evolution, but only a walk in the park. So, I see
the foreign installation as an extension of the humanform wavelength - the mechanism we have built to distract ourselves, test ourselves, thwart ourselves, and
trap ourselves... unless & until we turn around, look ourselves in the eye, and say, "Hey, Self, is this what you really want, or are you just running
this program by default? Do you believe the **** you're singing to yourself in your internal dialogue, or can you see it's all just a meaningless
chant spun into being by your scared little-self?"




When we have the wherewithal to *see* the foreign installation for the Agent Smith it is, we open ourselves to the power which will enable us to defeat it.
What is that power? Simply put: it is the power of surrender: to the higher self, the dreaming self, the double - i.e., the self which exists
outside of the program itself. That is when "the double is dreaming you" and therefore "you" are no longer controlled from
inside the program.




Hope that makes sense. LOL. Good topic.

[bluedreamer]

It makes a lot of sense to me Quantam Shaman, well said.




I saw a kind of vision once of something like the foreign installation, only it was a huge dark shape somewhat like a manta rey shape and the faces of many
people were fixed on it. Maybe it was something like the "mold of the flier" . At the time I hadn't read much Castaneda and didn't know of
the flyer. I thought of it as representing the leviathon, civilization and similar to what you say--a program that has people locked, looking at it while we
head toward a cliff but I don't know what it really is. terrifying




I haven't seen a personal flyer , I can't say whether a being(s) enters the mind but something beyond a mere individual. I have had voices, desires,
thoughts etc that weren't recognizable as mine, which has gotten better as of late since circumstances demanded I start taking note of how at variance my
actions were with who I thought I was, my petty bubble popped and some of the poison out but it hasn't given up trying to re-establish it self yet.




Maybe flier, program, leviathon, devil, etc are different ways of saying/experiencing whatever it is. Not all the voices etc are evil or disturbing, poetry
comes and beautiful images too, those are called angels, inspiration, imagination, tongues, muse...




I do experience the flier/program as being hostile to me and tender life everywhere.




I remember a story told by Buddha: a man with an arrow embedded in him was brought to the surgeon but refused to let him operate until he knew who shot the
arrow, what kind of poison was on it, what type of bow it was etc...the Buddha said the man would die before the arrow was removed if he waited for all the
answers




So not being sure about the answer(s) maybe I can still be cured.

[quantumshaman]

bluedreamer wrote:



I do experience the flier/program as being hostile to me and tender life everywhere.




I remember a story told by Buddha: a man with an arrow embedded in him was brought to the surgeon but refused to let him operate until he knew who shot the
arrow, what kind of poison was on it, what type of bow it was etc...the Buddha said the man would die before the arrow was removed if he waited for all the
answers




So not being sure about the answer(s) maybe I can still be cured.
Good point re waiting for all the answers. We can only go on our own instincts - the path of the heart.




With regard to the FI... I think the "cure" is simply awareness of the dis-ease. Once a warrior begins to really *see* that so much of what we
think/believe is the result of some manner of "foreign installation", we embrace the ability to have a keen awareness of everything we think, do,
believe, etc. That's the nature of self-stalking - questioning not only our own beliefs, but WHY we believe the things we do, where those beliefs come
from, and finally asking ourselves if they have ANY veracity whatsoever. Most don't.




Armed with that awareness, we can then begin to step outside the foreign installation's commands and take back our own autonomy.




At least that's how it works for me.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Good posts my friends. They differ from my more extreme view I think you would think. Having seen the FI and seen it looking at me, I feel differently than
many of you. There is a great denial of the FI in most people. They either try to minimize it or shade it with love and such adjectives. Each person has a
unique relationship with the FI. Many do not have extreme results. Castaneda and Don Juan provided the knowledge of the FI and through their efforts I hope
society will begin to understand what destroys the human race and its ultimate potential.

[quantumshaman]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:

Good posts my friends. They differ from my more extreme view I think you would think. Having seen the FI and seen it looking at me, I feel differently than
many of you. There is a great denial of the FI in most people. They either try to minimize it or shade it with love and such adjectives. Each person has a
unique relationship with the FI. Many do not have extreme results. Castaneda and Don Juan provided the knowledge of the FI and through their efforts I hope
society will begin to understand what destroys the human race and its ultimate potential.


Hi, LoneWolf.




So you're saying that your experience of the FI was of a sentient 'being' looking at you. Interesting. Indeed, I think it manifests different for
all who *see* it. Whether sentient or not, I do agree with you when you say it destroys the human race and its ultimate potential - largely by convincing the
humans race that its individuals are impotent and powerless.




So I'm curious as to what you think can be done about it "in the big picture", if anything. I've always felt that those who *see* the FI and
confront it (in whatever manner works for them) are simply individuals who figure it out and take the appropriate action to defeat it. I was on another forum
for awhile where some folks thought it was the "responsibility" of men & women of knowledge to "save" others from the clutches of the
FI, but other than making the information/knowledge available to those who might be seeking it, I'm not sure there's much anyone can do, largely
because those who are under the influence of the FI are the first to argue that it doesn't exist.




Just curious as to your thoughts on this.




QS

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Big picture. Good question QS. Perhaps the smaller picture is the nagual's way. Anyone want to comment on what we should do with this knowledge?

[Gonzo]

In my opinion the only real goal described by don Juan was achieving the totality of oneself. With the "magic" removed, the
process is one of psychotherapy. If that process involves a guide, the guide could be called a Nagual, or a Benefactor, or a guru, or a psychotherapist.
Their functions seem to be identical. Some suggest you ask the question, "Who am I?" That seems identical to achieving the totality of oneself.




The primary tool towards the goal is recapitulation, nothing more than a pyschotheraputic technique.




An adjunct exercise is to recognize and to deal with the socialization processes we are all subjected to. The goal of the society is to produce compliant,
dependable, and for the most part, non-thinking workers. There's nothing evil about that process, however, it is of benefit for one to realize the
programming in order to work towards the goal of achieving one's totality. In this regard, the notion of the foreign installation may be helpful in
identifying the programming and goals of society.

[Death Defier]

Nagual LoneWolf
wrote:

Do you believe you are in full and total control of your thoughts? Do you ever have thoughts that you feel are not yours? Urges not yours? Desires or wants
...not yours? Ever feel evil? Want to kick the dog or yell at the kids? It is my belief there is something inside you that IS NOT you. It wants to hurt and
is inherently evil. It is called the foreign installation. A being that enters your mind and lives on your body. It eats your magical energy. It takes away
from you many spiritual powers. It is the one enemy you must defeat in order to become a sorcerer. A warrior is one who battles for his freedom. A man of
knowledge has awareness of the foreign installation and controls his internal dialogue. A sorcerer defeats the F.I. What do you believe?
A believe that "seeing" as in seeing the flow of energy of the universe free from personal interpretations is the only way to know.




I myself haven't seen this nefarious inorganic being but certainly felt it as the bug-tormentor leaved me, never to return.

[Guest]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:
Do you believe you are in full and total control of your thoughts? Do you ever have thoughts that you feel are not yours? Urges not yours? Desires or wants ...not yours? Ever feel evil? Want to kick the dog or yell at the kids? It is my belief there is something inside you that IS NOT you. It wants to hurt and is inherently evil. It is called the foreign installation. A being that enters your mind and lives on your body. It eats your magical energy. It takes away from you many spiritual powers. It is the one enemy you must defeat in order to become a sorcerer. A warrior is one who battles for his freedom. A man of knowledge has awareness of the foreign installation and controls his internal dialogue. A sorcerer defeats the F.I. What do you believe?I know there's a lot on this site about the foreign installation. Ive always had a hard time with it, the concept. I do see it as making sense, like that perhaps society creates the foreign installation. I know at times Ive had thoughts Ive felt weren't my own. Cause I have this other part of mind which answers 'back' with reason, and rationality, the part of me which knows the difference between right and wrong. I think the foreign installation can be where we 'react' without thinking things through. It is something that I believe, if we shut off the internal dialogue and go silent, then we can conquer it. I think it tends to flee in the presence of a quiet mind....

[Tiff]

To me the FI is like tension, to be dealt with. Like an opponent approaching and one can decide to fight "it" or to forgo the urge to fight. Even if one forgos the urge to fight, that person will still be challenged. But the energetic experience will be different. Like the FI and the person then work in unison. Making it an ally, to use CC's terminology.

[Tiff]

Nagual LoneWolf wrote:Good posts my friends. They differ from my more extreme view I think you would think. Having seen the FI and seen it looking at me, I feel differently than
many of you. There is a great denial of the FI in most people. They either try to minimize it or shade it with love and such adjectives. Each person has a
unique relationship with the FI. Many do not have extreme results. Castaneda and Don Juan provided the knowledge of the FI and through their efforts I hope
society will begin to understand what destroys the human race and its ultimate potential.I see the value in taking the extreme view you take wolf. It truly is foreign. It is a good name DJ gave to describe it "the foreign installation". It is foreign to us. So if it is foreign to us, whenever we are angry (or other disconnecting emotion) at our fellow man, we are not seeing our fellow man clearly, they are not the FI, it is foreign. So we are in essence angry when we should not be and at whom we should not be angry at. And this can clue us into who we are really fighting and so we stop fighting it (and instead fight to remain free of it). We stop being angry (or other emotion) because we see the world really is a lovely place and humans are truly beautiful. They are not the FI. So we fight for this beautiful view only, to keep this view in
our awareness.
That being said, realizing one was wrong in their perception previously (thinking their fellow man was corrupt) can be a tricky turning point, so it helps to remember guilt has no value to us.  And no need to be mad at the FI either, it is only here to test us so that one day we see. Then its our ally.
Also, unless one sees the FI, one cannot be free of it. But to see it doesn't have to be with physical eyes.

[Nagual LoneWolf]

Yes Tiff and well said. The warrior's first and greatest battle is with the FI and his mind is the battlefield.

[snowblind]

I have always struggled with the thought of an FI. Here are my thoughts on it. We are dualistic beings and there are parts of us that are invisible to us (Johari window). There is a part of us that is "dark" there is a part of us that is "light". We are socialized to ignore, repress, and deny the dark part of our self at all costs. It is uncomfortable to have dark thoughts. It is uncomfortable to have thoughts that appear to be outside of "normal" (which imo is just a setting on the dryer, but thats for another post). Anyone who tells you that they never have "evil or abnormal" thoughts is lying. Is that a foreign being wanting to suck out our lifeforce? IMO no. If we take this to logic...my mind is a part of me, my thoughts are mine and a result of my experiences therefore bizarre thoughts are mine. [however]The outcome is the same [as those purported by FI]. We are often weakened by those types of thoughtforms, but that isnt because of some foreign creature, but because it separates us from each other, and from our SELF. I have had bizarre thoughts and wondered "where the hell did that come from? " It came from me. I would like to believe that it wasnt me, however it is the wonderful mystery that is us. A mish mash of wonderful darkness and the purest light...be both, but dont need to be both.

[Da Pimp]

I would like to remember to people dealing with this energetic fact that it's not only flyer's thoughts that we have within us, but the thoughts of friends, family, enemies, sexual partners, and people that surround us in general.


Our energy body is the receiver of countless subtle influences, being thoughts one of the main ones.


There is no living outside external influences. You can either be influenced by humans, natural forces or the Spirit.


All that we can do, to some extent, is choose our main influences and shift towards our choice.

[Tiff]

Evil can be looked at like...unity coming to terms with feelings of an illusional separatness.



The separateness does not truly exist. In the tonal realm we are in bodies--individualized, in the nagual there is no separation. Therefore, in the nagual there is no experience of evil. So...to perceive the nagual while "living" in the tonal.



Evil is like a gate. One can approach it, and pass it, never to return. It was only a perception. A useful one at that.

[Bob May]

I think it may not be all that important as to whether we believe we are overlayed by a "cultural program" or "possessed" by an "Entity".
My teacher used to say we don't have a thought of our own.
He also said we are either possessed by a spirit or The Spirit.
So that not just our "bad" ideas and thoughts are not ours, but also our good ideas and thoughts are not ours either.
In that case, we are basically just empty vessels waiting to be filled, and what we "attune to" determines what we draw to us. This would fit with Biblical verses comparing mankind to clay vessels.
It would also explain the miriad personality types we run into during life. (Which, by the way, seems to get more bizzare the older I get.)
The same man also used the analogy that we were similar to computers and the only way to really change the program in a significant way was to wipe the hard-drive clean and start over.
In either case, the main goal seems to be getting to the emptiness.
The problem with this, (again, Biblically speaking,) is that if you clean a house of an "unclean spirit" (or demon) he goes and gets seven others and comes back and moves in with them and your situation is worse afterwards than when you began.

[Bob May]

datura8 said:
"I know there's a lot on this site about the foreign installation. Ive always had a hard time with it, the concept. I do see it as making sense, like that perhaps society creates the foreign installation. I know at times Ive had thoughts Ive felt weren't my own."
If the concept of the foriegn installation is true, then it is not society that creates the foriegn installation, but the foriegn installation that creates society.
As far as having a "hard time" with the idea of it, that is caused by our society here in the modern Western world. Not so much in other cultures.
There is an old saying that goes something like "The Devil's greatest trick was convincing man that he didn't exist."

[Guest]

Bob May wrote:datura8 said:
"I know there's a lot on this site about the foreign installation. Ive always had a hard time with it, the concept. I do see it as making sense, like that perhaps society creates the foreign installation. I know at times Ive had thoughts Ive felt weren't my own."
If the concept of the foriegn installation is true, then it is not society that creates the foriegn installation, but the foriegn installation that creates society.
As far as having a "hard time" with the idea of it, that is caused by our society here in the modern Western world. Not so much in other cultures.
There is an old saying that goes something like "The Devil's greatest trick was convincing man that he didn't exist."You know, the first time I heard that saying, was from the movie The Usual Suspects. It is an interesting saying, and I suppose since Ive leaned on Buddhism over the years, I have begun to question if there really is a devil, or if perchance, it is just people who 'create' through the collective unconscious, an entity called the devil. Society at large, tellls great stories and myths, which are true, which are false, who should we follow and why? Oh to explore this whole thing, and even explore if there is a flyer, or a series of flyers. I think in the end, we have strange things in the world - because all is not as it seems - and really its here to test us more than anything. And a warrior, will rise to the call and pass the tests, because the goal of the infinite is a worthy goal. In the end there are those who take it seriously, and those who do not. But the warrior always takes it seriously and takes up the battle, flyer or not, devil or not. I think if we lean on Spirit, and take heed to the call, we cannot go wrong. We just have to pay attention to the signs and the path that has been laid out before us.

[Guest]