The woman and the doormat

[snowblind]

Being a woman on this crazy journey can be very conflicted and very confusing.  There are social norms to overcome, there are social inputs to overcome ie: what it means to be a woman which imo is pure horseshit.  At this time I am having a pondering about female spirituality and bullies.There are bullies in spiritual forms, also the work environment where bosses can be condescending, co-workers that are passive agressive and backbiting...passive agressive behaviors, interesting thoughtform.  Where is the cut off?  How to make it stop?  Is it just  how do you deal with Petit Tyrants?  I think being a woman poses a different way to handle, and has a different view of this phenomenon.

[Tiff]

"I think being a woman poses a different way to handle, and has a different view of this phenomenon."



How so? I just mean, what is your view on this then?

[Lunoor]

Hi snow, I think the best way to deal with petty tyrants is to become more aware of inner truth: how you are feeling, what thoughts you are having, what your weaknesses are, what past experiences are being triggered, what dreams you are having: anything that comes up for you in regard to the PT. Just as it is useful to be aware in life, to experience your experience. Practice it long enough and more and more your responses will fit the situation and be effective.



I think it can be useful to consider what the PT is saying and examine it to see if any of it may be true, not so you can feel bad but in order to become free from inner petty tyranny which could take the form of dishonesty with oneself and unfit action following from that.



By unfit action I simply mean the kind of action that lacks conviction which comes from lying to oneself. I know of said condition through personal experience.

[snowblind]

Tiff wrote:"I think being a woman poses a different way to handle, and has a different view of this phenomenon."



How so? I just mean, what is your view on this then?
Being a woman on this particular journey is different because of the fact that we are women.  Women have very different roles in society, have very different roles in the family, therefore have very different perspectives on spirituality in general.  Not better...just different.  When I experienced childbirth it was the closest I have come in this reality to death.  I remember the moment that death and birth were the same thing.  We all have that capacity with or without having given birth.  I think that gives us a unique outlook.  Society gives and reinforces very different morays to women than to men also giving them a different outlook.  Women are supposed to be sweet, polite, non confrontational, and deferential, not to mention weak and to be protected and owned.  We as warriors know that is bullshit.  However when our male counterparts act in such a way as to be rude, tyrannical, and generally condescending there are no real guidelines to reply.  The onus again comes upon us to "look within" and see what the truth is...the truth is being rude just to be rude is not our problem it is the problem of the giver...not the receiver.  But how to respond?  Give like for like?  Ignore them they will go away?  No, I dont believe that is one bit empowering for anyone.  So what to do?

[Tiff]

"Women are supposed to be sweet, polite, non confrontational, and deferential, not to mention weak and to be protected and owned."



And to me this is the gist of what you mean when you refer to women as doormats. Its not that you or I perceive this is truly so, but as women we each will encounter some kind of resistance along these lines, as all women do, and so we have to find a way to navigate these waters.



One of the big factors are derogatory statements about women which are socially reinforced. If it were not for this, our task would be far less daunting, to say the least.



My own experience with asserting my perspective is on some occasions my assertions were quickly labeled by weak-minded men (and sometimes women) as "bitchy" or "nagging". Then after such labels are applied it becomes harder to have a fair and even discussion. I say people can disagree without resorting to such name calling. But this is not how the world currently is, so as you said...how to deal with it?



We probably agree that they ways to deal with it are numerous. I can think of two ways I would currently use if in such a position of being bullied in some way.



One is I would look at the language used. If the person was overly aggressive, physically aggressive or resorted to derogatory remarks, I would know that person is weak and, instead of being able to stand his position on equal ground and just have a discussion on points, he would be resorting to some method of intimidation instead. Such as in derogatory remarks, they are insults that insinuate an inherent gender weakness, and once this concept is accessed, the intention is to cause the women to feel shame for being a woman as if women have weak qualities. Weakness is not gender related, weakness is failing to come to terms with pride, anger, and other manifestations of insecurity. A weak area simply needs to be worked on.



So I would look at the person I was dealing with and think to myself all the work they have yet to do. That would inform me they are not dominant over me, they don't have it all figured out nor are they perfect. So I then avoid any form of assigning those negative labels to myself which the intimidating style sought to achieve. Luckily for me physical dominance was never an issue such as it is with some women.



The second way I would deal with men like this is to remember other men who are not like this. I have a collection of men, lol, whom I respect and keep close to my heart. Men who try to better themselves and who have done just this. Its not about perfection. Sometimes these are men I know in person or through interactions, other times famous men. Again I don't expect perfection. One is Edgar Allan Poe. Most people don't know about his support for women, but he was very much the gentleman and showed them respect (perhaps it was even more common to do so then anyway), even helping literary women further in their careers at a time when women were not that accepted in that world. He was very devoted to his wife also. I'm not saying he's perfect but just the factual evidence that women themselves wrote about him, women who knew him, that he made effort to bring attention to women in a positive way and I'm not referring to his macabre writings.



Another is Kirk Douglas, already wrote about him in another thread. He by no means is perfect (based on his own admittance in his biography), but I pay attention to what's said and then actions and how they transformed who they were upon previous actions. Another one, that I don't read about much lately but used to is John Lennon. He had some rough periods in his marriage to Yoko (not to mention his first marriage), but ultimately towards the end of his life he made many beautiful tributes to Yoko and woman in general based on what he felt was a cruel indifference to women in which he had previously took part in, namely having an affair on Yoko which, being a Japanese woman, she actually gave her permission to (a culturally accepted idea in Japan), but after he had this affair he obviously saw the selfishness of the whole thing. After this at some point, he wrote the song Woman which is very beautiful and he said its for all women really.



So if I think of these men and many others, and then come into contact with men who are not being like this, I just look at such men and say, "you have a long ways to go baby." lol  And truly women have the same journey to make.



Woman

by John Lennon



(for the other half of the sky)Woman I can hardly express My mixed emotions at my thoughtlessness After all I’m forever in your debt And woman I will try to express My inner feelings and thankfulness For showing me the meaning of success Ooh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo Ooh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo Woman I know you understand The little child inside of the man Please remember my life is in your hands And woman hold me close to your heart However distant don’t keep us apart After all it is written in the stars Ooh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo, dooOoh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo Well Woman please let me explain I never meant to cause you sorrow or pain So let me tell you again and again and again I love you, yeah, yeah Now and forever I love you, yeah, yeah Now and forever I love you, yeah, yeah Now and forever I love you, yeah, yeah


The guy had guts to say this, not weakness, not **** whipped! To get over all the insecurity and be vulnerable and yet strong in that vulnerability. But it makes me wonder, was he able to write this because his wife was going to appreciate this, and thus it would be seen by her as a strength? If women ridicule men (or walk over them too) for being gentle, they only further the insecurity. So we each have to hold our own, and what women can do is make a man's expression of sensitivity a positive experience. Just as men can make our (women's) expression of strength a positive experience in how they receive it.
Ultimately, when I achieve Buddhahood none of this will matter, lol. In the meantime, anything that helps lessen the negative reactivity of afflictions and navigate daily life more smoothly is good in my book.
This is a good topic to bring up snowblind, thanks for it.

[snowblind]

One is only a doormat if one allows it to be so. In the end, people will only do to you what you allow them to do. An important lesson to remember.

[Guest]

I agree snowblind.



One of the greatest struggles in adapting to this world is working past the expectations of others. When one finds their own peace from within, that is the only voice that matters.

[Nu Lang]

such a lovely song, surprised I didn't link it before
John Lennon. Woman.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUNDdKfTa5A



Woman

by John Lennon



(for the other half of the sky)Woman I can hardly express My mixed
emotions at my thoughtlessness After all I’m forever in your debt And
woman I will try to express My inner feelings and thankfulness For
showing me the meaning of success Ooh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo,
doo Ooh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo Woman I know you understand
The little child inside of the man Please remember my life is in your
hands And woman hold me close to your heart However distant don’t keep
us apart After all it is written in the stars Ooh, well, well Doo, doo,
doo, doo, dooOoh, well, well Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo Well Woman please
let me explain I never meant to cause you sorrow or pain So let me tell
you again and again and again I love you, yeah, yeah Now and forever I
love you, yeah, yeah Now and forever I love you, yeah, yeah Now and
forever I love you, yeah, yeah

[Guest]