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Nagual Menagerie wrote:What is this forbearance of which you speak?forebearance is what makes the naguals prongs. It is to do with how you choose to study reality.
the KNOWN is the major perpetuating force of the HAP.
it is accumulated social conditioning and patterns of the habitual.
in order to escape the habtual you can go off at a tangent to it in
any direction you please.
in order to tackle the known and find its root you must find counterflows.
forebearance is the art of not only refusing to behave according to your own habitual assemblage
but also taking on the great work of opposing it with your intent.
intent unlike will which is based on change in teh present is based on totality and is based on
change of your form through totality.
its the difference between moving your assemblage point
and shifting your assemblage point.
It is seers who see forebearance "prongs"
non seers imagine a prong based on their known..
and just think of a prong..
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Moving and shifting the AP describes an action. I fail to realize what makes moving and shifting different from one another. To shift something is to move it; unless you're applying a personal definition, I see no difference between the terms.
The concept of a seer is faulty as what's seen cannot be defined. To have the gift of foresight means shifts of the AP are being made. For that knowledge to be useful, a seer needs to shift to the future then shift to the present, to finally apply the knowledge to cause change in outcome. Seers, useful ones, shift often. I doubt they care about "prongs" or seeing "prongs" in others. Prongs are only for those who lack the final phase of seeing (application). Those who can't "do" teach (or preach).
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Julio Juliopolis wrote:Related to the subject line of this thread...
Today while I was out delivering packages I walked past a statue of a dog. I hadn't noticed it at first until I was within half a foot of it, on the other side of a chain link fence. I slowed to admire it as I walked past. The quality was excellent and I wondered what material they made it from to look so realistic. As I was trying to figure it out it's eyes started moving. They'd been open the whole time but only now did they move when I was trying to figure it out. At this point, it became a dog. Specifically a bulldog. It suddenly reacted, apparently coming to the realization that it was a dog and I was on it's property only now that I'd past it on my way to the home's porch. It looked rather confused. Barked, wagged it's tail. Glared at me, went to go bark at the side door. It settled down as I got into my car to leave soon after.
It seems there's something to the fact that while I thought it was a statue, it acted like a statue. Only when I realized it was a dog did it seem to realize it was a dog. It's somewhat bizarre behavior after seems to indicate it had an unusual experience from it's perspective as well.Julio great experience Spirit/Power and your nagual side show it self. You know the nagual can only be experienced )))))Outstanding warrior story thanks. Put it in your warrior album
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Mornings Son wrote  ixie Dust 'What is real' ?
Love. Love is as real as it gets. I suppose any perceived experience is real, but the only experience worth living is love.
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Nagual Menagerie wrote:Moving and shifting the AP describes an action. I fail to realize what makes moving and shifting different from one another. To shift something is to move it; unless you're applying a personal definition, I see no difference between the terms.
The concept of a seer is faulty as what's seen cannot be defined. To have the gift of foresight means shifts of the AP are being made. For that knowledge to be useful, a seer needs to shift to the future then shift to the present, to finally apply the knowledge to cause change in outcome. Seers, useful ones, shift often. I doubt they care about "prongs" or seeing "prongs" in others. Prongs are only for those who lack the final phase of seeing (application). Those who can't "do" teach (or preach).
ok then..If a seer is to shift to the future// -how is this achieved?
Is it an elongation of present energy down the path of potential into the future.. which is then retracted?
i.e. the main mass of the seer remains stable, while a perceptive tool makes enquirey?
Is it a gathering of the totality by the seer which is then distorted across its totality so as to encompass the future and then reverted to
the normal position.
i.e. the entire mass of the seer is changed temporarily?
if it is the first type.. then the perceptive tool is itself a PRONG as it juts out toward the east.
if it is the second type and the mass totality is used.. then as the mass reverts the PRONG
is seen as the body returns to normal awarness.. different parts of the totality in reverting to undistorted state do so at different speeds.
unless this seer has inflated himself as a sphere and then contracted i dont see any other answer.
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Nagual Menagerie wrote. I fail to realize what makes moving and shifting different from one another. To shift something is to move it; unless you're applying a personal definition, I see no difference between the terms. Seers, useful ones, shift often. I doubt they care about "prongs" or seeing "prongs" in others. Prongs are only for those who lack the final phase of seeing (application). Those who can't "do" teach (or preach).so what your saying is?
That because the terms moving and shifting mean the same thing when talking about adjusting a physical objects position
that when talking about the assemblage point as shifting or moving, The assemblage point
behaves like a physical object and is subject to the same terms.?
So what you are saying is
that i lack the final phase of seeing and because i cant "do" the final phase of seeing
that i am preaching about prongs, prongs being a made up thing which real seers do not waste their time with.?
.....
it stands to reason that my made up prong should be inside my made up division between shift and move then
seeing s they both dont fucking exist. eh?
................................
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got my own warrior failings thanks.
my recapitulation of them gives me my teaching.
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rosygyro wrote:
Nagual Menagerie wrote:Moving and shifting the AP describes an action. I fail to realize what makes moving and shifting different from one another. To shift something is to move it; unless you're applying a personal definition, I see no difference between the terms.
The concept of a seer is faulty as what's seen cannot be defined. To have the gift of foresight means shifts of the AP are being made. For that knowledge to be useful, a seer needs to shift to the future then shift to the present, to finally apply the knowledge to cause change in outcome. Seers, useful ones, shift often. I doubt they care about "prongs" or seeing "prongs" in others. Prongs are only for those who lack the final phase of seeing (application). Those who can't "do" teach (or preach).
ok then..If a seer is to shift to the future// -how is this achieved?
Is it an elongation of present energy down the path of potential into the future.. which is then retracted?
i.e. the main mass of the seer remains stable, while a perceptive tool makes enquirey?
Is it a gathering of the totality by the seer which is then distorted across its totality so as to encompass the future and then reverted to
the normal position.
i.e. the entire mass of the seer is changed temporarily?
if it is the first type.. then the perceptive tool is itself a PRONG as it juts out toward the east.
if it is the second type and the mass totality is used.. then as the mass reverts the PRONG
is seen as the body returns to normal awarness.. different parts of the totality in reverting to undistorted state do so at different speeds.
unless this seer has inflated himself as a sphere and then contracted i dont see any other answer.
A seer shifts to the future with a knowing so deep, it can only be accessed via the subconscious. The subconscious is visible through undirected intent (in other words, only via reflection on past actions is the subconscious revealed). This could be recap, but one would need to know what they're looking at too (Carlos doesn't cover the steps precisely and he only covered half the process).
Another method of foresight is the ability to make reliable predictions based on established patterns. Such as: if I eat more calories than I consume, don't exercise, have no weight-losing medical condition, then I will probably gain weight.
Either method of prophecy works.
The entire mass of the seer can be changed; all depends upon what is being seen, why it is being seen, and who else is observing the sight. Context dictates conditions.
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rosygyro wrote:
Nagual Menagerie wrote. I fail to realize what makes moving and shifting different from one another. To shift something is to move it; unless you're applying a personal definition, I see no difference between the terms.
Seers, useful ones, shift often. I doubt they care about "prongs" or seeing "prongs" in others. Prongs are only for those who lack the final phase of seeing (application). Those who can't "do" teach (or preach).
so what your saying is?
That because the terms moving and shifting mean the same thing when talking about adjusting a physical objects position
that when talking about the assemblage point as shifting or moving, The assemblage point
behaves like a physical object and is subject to the same terms.?
So what you are saying is
that i lack the final phase of seeing and because i cant "do" the final phase of seeing
that i am preaching about prongs, prongs being a made up thing which real seers do not waste their time with.?
.....
it stands to reason that my made up prong should be inside my made up division between shift and move then
seeing s they both dont fucking exist. eh?
................................
I am saying a prong is exactly the opposite of a physical object (it is abstract). A prong cannot behave as a physical object. Yet, I don't see why a prong can't have associated behavior. What I'm saying is a prong is a symbol of awareness and englishtenment, but that it's so abstract a concept that most will fail to grasp it's true meaning. A prong is just as vague as God. God and prongs mean nothing until people interpret or designate meaning to these concepts. Prongs are alien concepts. If Carlos is working with humans, the term prong is inappropriate. If Carlos is working with aliens, then the term prong is appropriate. Since Carlos wrote a book and those books are sold to human, then he probably should have used a different term if he wanted to be understood by more people. Carlos was a smart man; but a shitbag communicator. Knowledge is useless to those who are unable to share it with others.
Again, it's a two-step process:
recap : understanding
knowledge : communicating
This could also apply:
unity : freedom
Carlos teaches unity via individualism (specific directions). Truthfully, the job can get done with many single hands. On the other hand, the job is better done when everyone is a whole individual working in unison (with two hands from each person). It doesn't require a group to "make it past the eagle". The group becomes the eagle; but the individual can easily walk past the eagle on their own. Carlos taught one basic method; the masses are stupid so Carlos had to dumb it down a little. The advanced version of the Carlos method was written by his wife. She understood it better. That edition is not in print. It's not in print because it would be more controversial than Carlos. Carlos merely wanted women to avoid wearing panties for sorceric reasons. The wife would advise no clothing, except during sex, and every fifth word, of the third sentence has to rhyme--and that it must be written in reverse (only the rhyming words). Carlos' version was acceptable for the general population. Those capable of following the directions for the advanced version wouldn't need the book, thus, the wife never wrote one.
I am saying forget the notion of a prong unless it helps you conceptualize the meaning of freedom.
If prongs are useful to you for your understanding: use them.
I teach new agers new ways of thinking, so the "do" vs "teach" idea was an inside joke (to make fun of myself). I do and teach.  Sometimes, it's fun to play both sides.
I don't use prongs because the symbolism is too complex for my tastes. Breaking things down into their most basic form is more efficient for my own process, but please use whatever process works for you. If prongs work for you, use it.
Also, I've only got opinions and I've never proven my use, value, or knowledge to you. I'm a nobody. Who knows if prongs exist. I mean, who knows if WE even exist. On a shallow, fundamental level we exist.... but do we really? If we aren't certain we, ourselves, are real--would it be worth it to even consider prongs? Probably not so much. It's relative, really.
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rosygyro wrote:got my own warrior failings thanks.
my recapitulation of them gives me my teaching.
"Lose Yourself"Look, if you had, one shot, or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted. In one moment
Would you capture it, or just let it slip?
Yo
I don't believe in only one shot. I carry multiple mags for this exact reason. If it comes down to "one-shot" then we've already lost.
The soul's escaping, through this hole that is gaping
This world is mine for the taking
Make me king, as we move toward a new world order
A normal life is boring, but superstardom's close to postmortem
It only grows harder, homie grows hotter
He blows. It's all over. These hoes is all on him
Coast to coast shows, he's known as the globetrotter
Lonely roads, God only knows
He's grown farther from home, he's no father
He goes home and barely knows his own daughter
But hold your nose 'cause here goes the cold water
His hoes don't want him no more, he's cold product
They moved on to the next schmoe who flows
He nose dove and sold nada
So the soap opera is told and unfolds
I suppose it's old partner, but the beat goes on
Da da dum da dum da da da da
What horrible depressive perspective in these lyrics. Who the *** wrote this?
[Hook]
No more games, I'mma change what you call rage
Tear this motherfucking roof off like two dogs caged
I was playing in the beginning, the mood all changed
I've been chewed up and spit out and booed off stage
But I kept rhyming and stepped right into the next cypher
Best believe somebody's paying the Pied Piper
All the pain inside amplified by the
Fact that I can't get by with my 9 to 5
And I can't provide the right type of life for my family
'Cause man, these goddamn food stamps don't buy diapers
And it's no movie, there's no Mekhi Phifer, this is my life
And these times are so hard, and it's getting even harder
Trying to feed and water my seed, plus
Teeter totter caught up between being a father and a primadonna
Baby, mama drama's screaming on her
Too much for me to wanna
Stay in one spot, another day of monotony's gotten me
To the point, I'm like a snail
I've got to formulate a plot or I end up in jail or shot
Success is my only motherfucking option, failure's not
Mom, I love you, but this trailer's got to go
I cannot grow old in Salem's lot
So here I go it's my shot.
Feet, fail me not
This may be the only opportunity that I got
The world doesn't deserve this creative genius. Let the artists die, their families die, and let the world burn in their own insanity.
[Hook]
You can do anything you set your mind to, man
This was meant to be inspirational? The is sad and pitiful. The fact this scenario exists for most people says there is something so horribly wrong with our species that we don't deserve Earth. Earth doesn't deserve us. Humans are the most ancient of STDs. We're killing our planet and ourselves lol. Overfishing, overpopulation, overhunting, blah blah blah. Humanity has poor self control and anger issues. At least a meteor took out the dinosaurs. Humanity is going to take themselves out lol. That's epic.
I've taken a back-seat to the insanity. Watching the shitshow with my bucket of popcorn while looking outside at my empty field of fucks.
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Pixie Dust wrote:Mornings Son wrote ixie Dust 'What is real' ?Love. Love is as real as it gets. I suppose any perceived experience is real, but the only experience worth living is love.
Now Watson what is this Love that is real?
Making love, love for coffee and cake, the greeting at the end of a letter 'love X'
It is the relationship dance?
Pixie following your 'I suppose any perceived experience is real'
- perceiving makes things real?
If your rub your eyes and see stars, are the stars real then?
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Making love, love of edibles, love of communication; they can all be real love. They can all be fake too when the intent is misaligned. Those are merely actions. Real love is the intent behind any action.
Love can be dancing too, sure.
The ability to perceive makes an experience real for the one perceiving something. For example, I love you Mornings. That means you are real. Even if you a objectively fake, you are subjectively real [to me]. There may be even things that are real, but we lack knowledge about. Such as mermaids. The world is a mystery
I once had a friend who intended to kill himself to save the world. I call that an act of love. Others call it suicide. To each their own reality. I liked his reality most; his love touched me in ways no others could. I am inspired by his survival and compassion.
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-to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person). & to need or require; benefit greatly from:
nouna profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for aparent, child, or friend.sexual passion or desire.a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.(used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or thelike):Would you like to see a movie, love?a love affair; an intensely amorous incident; amour.sexual intercourse; copulation.to have love or affection for:All her pupils love her.to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (anotherperson).to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in:to love music.to need or require; benefit greatly from lants love sunlight.to embrace and kiss (someone), as a lover. to have sexual intercourse withWiki adds:
Love is a variety of different feelings, states, and attitudes that ranges from interpersonal affection ("I love my mother") to pleasure ("I loved that meal"). It can refer to an emotion of a strong attraction and personal attachment.[1] Love can also be a virtue representing human kindness, compassion, and affection—"the unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another".[2] It may also describe compassionate and affectionate actions towards other humans, one's self or animals.[3]
Ancient Greek philosophers identified four forms of love: kinship or familiarity (in Greek, storge), friendship (philia), romantic desire (eros), and self-emptying or divine love (agape). Modern authors have distinguished further varieties of love: limerence, amour de soi, and courtly love. Non-Western traditions have also distinguished variants or symbioses of these states.[4][5] Love has additional religious or spiritual meaning—notably in Abrahamic religions. This diversity of uses and meanings combined with the complexity of the feelings involved makes love unusually difficult to consistently define, compared to other emotional states.
Love in its various forms acts as a major facilitator of interpersonal relationships and, owing to its central psychological importance, is one of the most common themes in the creative arts.[6]
Love may be understood as a function to keep human beings together against menaces and to facilitate the continuation of the species.[7]
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So having wrapped up many aspects of love and getting to the roots of the word, the label, the describtion
And Pixie nicely connecting to what is the (real) experience of the real. and holding on to our personal bobble (or box) that we live in.
What about the energy nature of the phenomenon love - the nagual side Pixie?
The intent in our flesh to reproduce, the karmic patterns, the Command of the Eagle (given with the bestowing of a drop of Awareness)
What do you think?
Attraction (also gravity) and the wanting to nurture and give life - This is Mother Earth Vibe and she gives life to All her Children (and with no pity added the Wolf)
Love is in our nature
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The experience makes the real - Pixie says Ones experience depend on actual AP as well as personal tools and filters
Seeing is an experience where you perceive the Real.
(Intuition is actually a way of Seeing)
What is real Real?
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Nagual Menagerie wrote:
Another method of foresight is the ability to make reliable predictions based on established patterns. Such as: if I eat more calories than I consume, don't exercise, have no weight-losing medical condition, then I will probably gain weight.
making reliable predictions based apon established patterns is actually using the KNOWN to predict the future. seeing the future and predicting the future are different things.
just pointing out the vital point that social conditioning (the known) is that we eradicate in order to see.
eating more or less calories does not tell you if you are going to walk out in front of a bus
or if a terrorist bomb will go off..
It is not seeing the future.
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This first image shows THREE people. a) is 141 years old. b) would have been 141 years old today, but is pre-deceased at 60yrs old in 1945. C) is alive today but was born in 1935 and so is 71ys old.
the second picture shows 8 billion people.. all ranging from 1minute old now- to 141 years old.. to recently deceased of ANY age.
This shows the nagual work of creating a base chakra bridge through the corporeal.
this picture shows the subjective and objective stance to destiny.
SEEING the future..
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Nagual Menagerie wrote: Who knows if prongs exist. I mean, who knows if WE even exist. On a shallow, fundamental level we exist.... but do we really? If we aren't certain we, ourselves, are real--would it be worth it to even consider prongs? Probably not so much. It's relative, really.
Who knows if fluidity exists? The truth is that fluidity is a learned attribute, that has no observer platform that is objective to it. In other words there is "no place to stand" to observe fluidity as a "thing".
The same is also true of "prongs" in thast they are an energetic "newness" that is accumulated and earnt over time. Once again there is no easy observer platform from which to assess their construct/deconstruct.
now-
FLUIDITY as an act of will- only involves taking the present in which you are bound to interact and choosing to manipulate the energetic attchment to one of none.. in that moment freeing your being from the debilitating effects of normal awarness.
this is classified as a movement of the assemblage point.
In this case the position relative to the body and cocoon stays largely the same, but the fibres and fields it interacts with are deliberatly left as non concrete= and so a fluid perception is generated.
NOw MEST- matter energy space and time.. are four corner"stones". of the sorcerers world. recapitulation itself is HUGE as it encompasses your entire life.
this differs from an assemblage move.. When a sorcerer SHIFTS assemblage point.. the sorcers recapitulation is also moved.
This is achieved by bringing the sorcerers totality into alignment with the poresent before attempting to be fluid.
THE WORLD OF OMEN
The world of omen is an interesting position.. it cannot be "moved to" and must be "shifted to".. i.e. the sorcerer does not just tune into it.. but jumps bodily into it.
once in the world of omen the sorceres recapitulation remains in the same energetic level of completion/complexity.. but instead is severed to purpose.
The way social conditioning works is that energetic ajuncts and sticking points in the recapitulation tail..tend to effect the overall easterly trajectory of the seer and so that which comes into manifestation tends to be a repetition of earlier events.
in the world of omen.. the east becomes the paramount force. that is to say that the recapitulation tail is seen entirely as an energetic abstract.. the future is aquiesced to.. and any sticking points in the tail are energeticly jolted/put under application of potential.. (kinda like zooming in).
Then the sorcerer shifts back to normal awarness.
At this point.. instead of repressed memories coming to the surface.. the practitioner gets "EFFICIENT" memories.. memries that signify the keys to aligning perception toward the potential energy of the east and of the future.
AKA.. choosing warriorship.
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Would you say that recapitulation is a natural result of upholding forbearance? Or does the formal intent have to be in place? i.e. "I am now going to sit down and recapitulate"
I ask because I'm looking for a new approach to it. I did the reverse chronological list of everyone I know, years ago....recapitulating every remembered interaction with those on the list. It took me 5 years to finish. Now, the impression to further/deepen the practice has cropped up....but I'm not sure how to approach it. Where to start. Initial impression is to sit in silence, open to pertinent memories that need recapitulating and for them to emerge...and then engage those memories as they float into view.
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people can recapitulate without having forebearance.
also all people will oneday recapitulate for the final time.
forebearance is an energy created by traversing the sorcerers world in a specific way.
when a person with forebearance finally recapitulates for the final time
the energetic signature of their forebearance will be a part of their launchplate into the unknown.
- A while ago i likened the corporeal to being like a packed indian train carriage, one where everyone is jammed together so
tightly that everyone is equally comfortable/uncomfortable..
so precarious is the balance that just one selfish traveller stretching out his arms and legs will make the entire train
slightly more cramped.KNOWN
the corporeal is a bit like a jigsaw.. we are each pieces.
the traveller who stretches out his arms and legs is only himself taking his right to be comfortable.
he is inconsiderate to not consider the other passengers.
i suppose in this train the person with forbearance would be curled up like a contortionist and perched in a luggage rack.
the point is that the KNOWN is the casual awarness we believe is right but which actually debilitates our surroundings and others rights within them.
forebearance is an art of of not using the known. of identifying that portions of our awareness are following systemic paths and choosing not to use them.
like any training the art of forebearance is difficult..
from recapitulations point..
the body without forebearance will fall as if my gravity into the mouth of the eagle..
as the eagle eats people through their habitual.
and the KNOWN is habitual.
if you want to have forebearance.. rather than listen to someone who has it that is your choice.
but the sorcerers world takes sometimes decades to cross
and forebearance is a path.
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i think it needs to be very clear what forebearance is.
Dec 18, 2016 art of stalking/ therapy -- the messiah complex (SEE rosygyro POST #8) Beautiful and powerfully insightful.
NOW, understand---> this is not about other entities. My perception recognizes that inside rosygyro's delineated circle represents all that is manifest as my world. rosygyro evaluates what is put inside correctly---> NOTHING.
I do not say world is illusion.. only that my subjectivity is the primary 'real.' I currently CHOOSE to compress and objectify my world by reducing it to Kaomea. With discipline and unwavering obedience to my conceptual SELF, I stand outside her puny c*nt show.
THIS (SEEING WITH BEING) IS FOREBEARANCE.
I can wreak havoc on my circled world (aka Kaomea) without objectively breaching integrity. That is, I comprehend that there is nothing there.. [yep, Kuntomea has no value]. Evaluation is a subjective CHOICE. Only my CHOICE has value, not a cu*nty toy.
BECAUSE I AM perfectly whole, my subjectivity is readily objectified and made manifest. When I do CHOOSE to value Kaomea, that CHOICE is inviolable action.
Others would fall by the wayside. Why? They have no firm grounding, and their variable movements are on the sand of societal influence.
So, Kaomea.. you shall not tonally move away from me, otherwise your life's occupation will be a sham. I AM the arising substance of your craft.
I AM enjoying the f*ck out of this, and I will soon enough have you.
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rosygyro, comment on spear of destiny and moving eastward:
I AM not going to the future. MEST is coming to me. Time is arriving. Important distinction.
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I do want forbearance....but I'm no contortionist. Perhaps I'll start by simply withdrawing my outstretched arms, tucking them to my sides...and then, maybe the energy of progressive forbearance will lend itself to further compression/containment.
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To be 'real,' that is.. to be authentic:
1. Discipline to gain autonomy of CHOOSING. Consistent, unmitigated CHOICE is the only value. Owning the whole world is nada.
2. CHOICE dismisses results orientation. CHOICE is the only value. Owning the whole world is nothing but nada.
3. Manifestation is to be expansively actualized. In maturity, CHOICE involves owning the whole world (even though it is nada).
4. Emerse SELF in the power of ownership. Ownership is empty of value. THIS is real. Authenticity exudes empty awarensss.
ARE WE HAVING FUN? I AM LAUGHING and SMILING ****
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Let's go a step further.. ---> MEST (matter, energy, space, time) and being Billy................ ....
matter (manifestation) is a small ball. I throw it, I bounce it, I catch it, I dribble it, I juggle it, I look at it as it reforms. I take the cover off, I unravel the yarn... (oops wrong ball).
This is a crystal ball. I WAIT SEE..............................
heh, a c*unt appears from out of nowhere. I call it Kaomea. I show the ball to Kaomea.. she undresses and bends over... [use your imagination]
energy (emanation) is a sensational 'angst.' It permeates me, yet allows me to integrate and control it. I move with it.
space (separation) is distance from matter. Even as matter is accessible to my senses, I am well apart from THAT. It is objectified.
time (engagement) is matter awareness. It is not a quality that happens to me. It is potency of food. I AM a hunter who is in waiting. My prey comes to me and I eat.
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