Zen master Seung Sahn and taoist Miao

[Mornings Son]

Zen Master Seung Sahn held up his staff in front of old Shifu Miao Zhang, and said "Then, Miao Zhang, what are this staff, this sound and your mind?  Are they the same or different?  If you say "same," I will hit you thirty times.  If you say "different," I will also hit you thirty times. Why?"
Miao Zhang lifted his cane slowly and pointed it at Seung Sahn's face, and then he said "Don't know! Same or different, nobody can hit the sound of our minds."

[glance left]

I love the intent behind koans. The intent to short-circuit my reason, the nefarious collaborator of the flyer mind, leaving the shock of empty space of inner silence. Once its done its job, my job is to uphold it...unbending intent...until it perpetuates itself spontaneously.

I had no idea how lax this muscle had become in my life....modern man's life.....the muscle of unbending intent. I also had no idea how enraged the force behind the flyer mind becomes when you put up a serious, sustained challenge to its sustenance.

I indulge less frequently, nowadays......but when I do, I indulge like a motherf.uck.er! Last gasps/grasps, I can only hope, of something on its way out the door.

[Mornings Son]

Hey Glance )))
Cool that you are using this 'wallbreaker' too. 
Its a great way to derange the train of thoughts. 
The Flyer.... uff its a hard topic for me, as im not completely sure about them (as in not having Seen them)

Well back to the topic
All day to strive to return to the breathing and the koan  
Its difficult in a work life.... yet very rewarding. 
I found it useful to make habit connected to special rutines during the day. 
When I go from A to B, I return to the practice... heh ... well sometimes at least when I recall....

[glance left]

Hey MS

Good idea about making routines attached to practice of silent awareness. I'm gonna go for every time I blink...I become aware

[Mornings Son]

heh ))
;-)

[glance left]

It's interesting. I don't practice Zen, formally. But wall gazing is easily my favorite practice in terms of cultivating sheer awareness. In terms of silence....its when I dive in the deepest

[Mornings Son]

Wall gazing was Bodhidharma the first patriarch of zen's way. Hit sat 9 years facing the wall it is told...

Glance what do you do to come to inner silence?
In Rinzai zen we use first counting breath from one to ten and later word after word of a koan.
Soto zen folks use Shinkantaza.
Wiki says: The term shikantaza is attributed to Dōgen's teacher Tiantong Rujing (1162-1228), and it literally means, "nothing but (shikan) precisely (da) sitting (za)."[1] In other words, Dōgen means, "doing only zazen whole-heartedly" or "single-minded sitting."[2][3]
and more...
Master Shengyen explains the meaning of the term in this way:

This “just sitting” in Chinese is zhiguan dazuo. Literally, this means “just mind sitting.” Some of you are familiar with the Japanese transliteration, shikantaza. It has the flavor of “Just mind your own business.” What business? The business of minding yourself just sitting. At least, you should be clear that you're sitting. “Mind yourself just sitting” entails knowing that your body is sitting there. This does not mean minding a particular part of your body or getting involved in a particular sensation. Instead, your whole body, your whole being is sitting there.[15]

According to Merv Fowler, shikantaza is described best as,

quiet sitting in open awareness, reflecting directly the reality of life.[16]

Shikantaza is often termed a goalless meditation in quiet awareness,

not working on any koan, or counting the breath. It is an alert condition, performed erect, with no trace of sluggishness or drowsiness.[17]
---------
I used koan for years, yet at times dwell in the inner silence just being. Mind is like a horse, ox or monkey to train... ppphhh. Sometimes it works for me to set up a little reward for hard efforts. Heh. Dog training myself so to speak

[glance left]

I used to count breaths, to get things started in silent meditation....but I don't do that anymore. I just intend to become silently aware and let that intent gather momentum

I would say, based on what you describe above, that Shikantaza is the closest description of my pursuit of inner silence. It is simply to become purely aware of awareness and whatever comes into that field of awareness, I just observe it from that central state. Features of perception naturally shift amidst that state, but I don't specifically intend that shift. It just happens.

Nice thing about it is, I can take it with me wherever I go/whatever I do. It deepens when simply sitting/gazing. It's more superficial when I'm out and about during the day, with my family...at work....gaming But, all in all, it doesn't matter what I'm doing.....I try my best to bring that intention right into the middle of it.

"Monkey mind" LOL....yeah, that's a good name for my personal brand of internal dialog. Same thing as Flyer mind, but just with another name. I've never seen the Flyer either, but use the term here in Nagual forums because that's generally how it is perceived. Perfectly valid, IMO. It may be some of the subterfuge used in Nagualism to help warriors fight it with everything they can. Turn it into a monster to be defeated, kind of thing. I say whatever works....do that!

But, in here I'll just call it monkey mind. It seems to fit perfectly. Intention is to simply starve it off of my head Intent is simple and clear and I pursue it day-in and day-out. Silent awareness is what defeats it, I know. Once that light shines steadily, there is no room for it anymore, so it just leaves once and for all. *dusts hands* All gone!

[Mornings Son]

Riding on Intent ))))

harvesting your efforts/actions over time

Wonder how deep your breathing are when you move you AP. For me there is a change in the rhythm and pace.

I ask cos the effect breathing works on aspects of personal power & chi.

[glance left]

That's a good question. I'm due for my second wall gazing session this evening...I'll watch my breathing and let you know

I agree though, seems like breathing becomes deeper and softer and helps the eyes make the adjustment to facilitate the perceptual shift. I'll verify this this evening

[glance left]

LOL Interesting conversation just now with my youngest daughter. She says, "Hey, Dad. Wanna hear something funny?" I say, "Of course!" She says, "I'm gonna do a magic trick. Ready?" She looks at me and waggles her fingers and says "You are now extremely aware that you are blinking!!"

And, of course, it worked. Even as I'm blinking now.....I'm aware of it....extremely *blink, blink*

[glance left]

So, in observing my breathing during this last session, it sinks down into the belly where expansion and contraction occur almost exclusively. It sinks below the chest and becomes slow and smooth...with frequent pauses after expiration. Awareness expands outward into the air around me with this breathing and the perceptual shift surges, cm by cm, through this space.

[Mornings Son]

You have a good thing going!

How long periodes do you sit?
For me one hour+ works the best, yet 15-25 min a few days is what I found time to the last week

[glance left]

An hour +....that's awesome! I go anywhere from 20 min to 45 min 2-4 times a day, depending on whether I'm working or not....and then just try to stay centrally aware in between My intent is to work my way up to an hour or so per session.

It only seems long and difficult if I'm going back and forth with the monkey mind the whole time. If my silence and that thrumming vibration sensation gathers momentum.....it's easy

[Mornings Son]

Glance you are more hard core than I thought. So many periods of sitting a day, must be real good to keep 'the vibe' going through the day. Its something I would like to organize into my life as well.

To keep with the practice all day, should be most beneficial!

Many week long retreats have helped me to sit longer and longer periods...

[glance left]

Well, I just recently became more "hard core" over the last several months so, we'll see if I can keep it up. Ask me again a year from now

I bet those week long retreats are incredible. The only thing I've done, similarly, is weekend retreats for Tensegrity...but that was many moons ago. I can imagine, after a week of solid meditation/focus, that you are shifted beyond words

[Mornings Son]

I must suggest you go to Tahoma and do a retreat with my zen master's now zen master student Daichi Roshi in April 20-27

Why? To give yourself the gift of time on the cushion as well as meeting an american nun that living in monastery for 35 years as translator for my teacher. It could be good stuff if you where to give deeper meditations a shot. I promise you, it will be worthwhile, IF you put effort in to backing up your intent on inner silence.

check onedropzen.org

There is also a session with my teacher Shodo Harada Roshi in September, but it might be difficult to get a seat on it!
Yet if you meet Chi-san on a sesshin in april and she knows you are serious then you would be on i guess ))

[Mornings Son]

I played dungeons&Dragons for 20 years (then moved on to other stuff like Mage)
So I always told my role-play friends that i took away to level up
it seem like it a process like peeling an onion, you remove a shell and cry and discover another layer. Yet you have deepend you state of mind/learned to hold a new AP.
The Great Death still escapes me...
said the cry baby

[glance left]

Thanks for the offer/suggestion to go on meditation retreat. As much as I would like to, something like that is just not in the cards for me right now. My practice is to be solo, for the time being.

I remember D&D. Seems like I remember that leveling up frequently required doing battle from some high HP beast out of the Monster Manual.

[Mornings Son]

heh yeah.

What did you play? Recall a fav character?

I quickly became DM so I have played a lot, even founded a club that still excites and thrives!

[Mornings Son]

I get it! Yet many times ones Intent can work wonders...

May I suggest to find a local meditation group and go there one time
why?
To (hopefully) experience the group synergy effect on meditation

[glance left]

It's been a very long time since playing D&D, but I absolutely loved it. I remember playing a Ranger, I think. I never made it to the point of becoming DM, but there was an older brother of a fiend of mine in the neighborhood who was always willing to DM for us....I remember looking up to him for that.

I've been to the Shambhala meditation group on a number of occasions here in the city where I live. I enjoyed it, for sure.

Ironically, and personally, I've found that my meditation goes much deeper when I'm alone. I'm not sure why!

[Mornings Son]

Aye I know the same experience.

Its when your state of mind is deeper than the group
I would love to sit with you ... ppphhh we are hours and kilometers apart in time-space continuum, yet we are not in mind )))

Ranger. Recall race, name, animal companion, weapon of choice and religion. let me guess he was neutral good?

[glance left]

When do you prefer to sit? Could simply sit at the same time in our own given time zone, one day....let intent bridge the gap

LOL...oh, man. It's been over 30 years since I played that role. I don't remember the specifics at all

[Mornings Son]

Meditation time
morning as early as I can get my ass to the fusion

evening both early and late is good for me.

Im still (30+ years...) practicing leading, playing and teaching role-play games, both live action theater and pen and paper.

Needless to say I love storytelling and making interactive narratives.

Often I used it as a warrior. Inspired by one of my shaman teachers stories of native american warriors he met who used it to gain knowledge and Power.

Creating new ways of being in life is a stalking and can be used to expand ones ways of being in life and in the social as well.