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I've often seen the comment, "My energy body did this and that......" or "My Double is doing this or that....."
Most talk about "my energy body", as if it is an object that s/he, the subject, possesses.
If this is so, then I would have to ask, "who is it that has the energy body?"
And if the whole point of spiritual training is to realize the delusion of self/non-self, then mightn't this be the critical question, not kibitzing about someone's opinion of whether s/he possesses this or that type of subtle body?
SHM
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My energy body has a different will than my body,
I witness this phenomenon on a daily bassis...
Have you ever heard of something called the yin and yang?
Different yet complementary. This is what we call, a paradox...
Thats what the energy body is with the physical body. We are many forces combined.
We have many different parts physically, and many parts spiritually.
Deal with it SHM.
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Blue totem wrote:
My energy body has a different will than my body,
I witness this phenomenon on a daily bassis...
Have you ever heard of something called the yin and yang?
Different yet complementary. This is what we call, a paradox...
Thats what the energy body is with the physical body. We are many forces combined.
We have many different parts physically, and many parts spiritually.
Deal with it SHM.
BT, yes, I'm dealing with it...chuckles.
Do you see how your first sentence begins with 'My'? If this is so, then I would have to ask, "who is it that has the energy body?"
Then you say, 'different'.
So, you and your energy body are two seperate entities?? What's that old saying, "One, not two."
Help me out here, BT.
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For as much as a year Satan continued these visits, but at last he came less often, and then for a long time he did not come at all. This always made me lonely and melancholy. I felt that he was losing interest in our tiny world and might at any time abandon his visits entirely.
When one day he finally came to me I was overjoyed, but only for a little while. He had come to say good-by, he told me, and for the last time. He had investigations and undertakings in other corners of the universe, he said, that would keep him busy for a longer period than I could wait for his return.
"And you are going away, and will not come back any more?"
"Yes," he said. "We have comraded long together, and it has been pleasant-pleasant for both; but I must go now, and we shall not see each other any more."
"In this life, Satan, but in another? We shall meet in another, surely?"
Then, all tranquilly and soberly, he made the strange answer,
"There is no other."
A subtle influence blew upon my spirit from his, bringing with it a vague, dim, but blessed and hopeful feeling that the incredible words might be true-even must be true.
"Have you never suspected this, Theodor?"
"No. How could I? But if it can only be true -"
"It is true."
A gust of thankfulness rose in my breast, but a doubt checked it before it could issue in words, and I said, "But-but-we have seen that future life-seen it in its actuality, and so -"
"It was a vision-it had no existence."
I could hardly breathe for the great hope that was struggling in me. "A vision?-a vi -"
"Life itself is only a vision, a dream."
It was electrical. By God! I had had that very thought a thousand times in my musings!
"Nothing exists; all is a dream. God-man-the world-the sun, the moon, the wilderness of stars-a dream, all a dream; they have no existence. Nothing exists save empty space-and you!"
"I!"
"And you are not you-you have no body, no blood, no bones, you are but a thought. I myself have no existence; I am but a dream-your dream, creature of your imagination. In a moment you will have realized this, then you will banish me from your visions and I shall dissolve into the nothingness out of which you made me...
"I am perishing already-I am failing-I am passing away. In a little while you will be alone in shore less space, to wander its limit-less solitudes without friend or comrade forever-for you will remain a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature inextinguishable, indestructible. But I, your poor servant, have revealed you to yourself and set you free. Dream other dreams, and better!
"Strange! that you should not have suspected years ago-centuries, ages, eons, ago!-for you have existed, companionless, through all the eternities. Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane-like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell-mouths mercy and invented hell-mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!...
"You perceive, now, that these things are all impossible except in a dream. You perceive that they are pure and puerile insanities, the silly creations of an imagination that is not conscious of its freaks-in a word, that they are a dream, and you the maker of it. The dream-marks are all present; you should have recognized them earlier.
"It is true, that which I have revealed to you; there is no God, no universe, no human race, no earthly life, no heaven, no hell. It is all a dream-a grotesque and foolish dream.
Nothing exists but you. And you are but a thought-a vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn among the empty eternities!"
He vanished, and left me appalled; for I knew, and realized, that all he had said was true.
Chapter 11 from The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain
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Many things in the universe are paradoxes.
Forces that are opposites and complementary at the same time.
Like matter and anti-mater; in certain conditions, they form matter,
and in other conditions, they disolve each other...
Its just like that, duality and unity exist in some kind of weird harmony...
Thats just the way it goes.
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Blue totem wrote:
Many things in the universe are paradoxes.
Forces that are opposites and complementary at the same time.
Like matter and anti-mater; in certain conditions, they form matter,
and in other conditions, they disolve each other...
Its just like that, duality and unity exist in some kind of weird harmony...
Thats just the way it goes.
Understood, BT, yet not on target of the subject matter.
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Thank you A siris for your contribution.
Unsure if Satanism or Angels are the topic. If you see them relating to the topic, can you tie them into the original post?
Thanks!
SHM
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Why is this about the double posted here in the zen board?
The zen answer as fare as I understand the matter is
The double is the buddha nature or as Rinzai says 'the person of no ranks that comes and goes. Have you meet him yet?'
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Mornings Son wrote:
Why is this about the double posted here in the zen board?
The zen answer as fare as I understand the matter is
The double is the buddha nature or as Rinzai says 'the person of no ranks that comes and goes. Have you meet him yet?'Hey MS!
Feel free to move this thread if you like.
The delusion of self/no-self is the crux of the issue, and it seemed more appropriate here.
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Its not important to move it.
This forum is full of mental **** IMHO
A University Professor went to see Nan-in, a Zen Master, to find out more about Zen.
As their meeting continued Nan-in was pouring Tea and continued to pour even though the cup was overflowing.
The Professor cried. "Enough! No more will go in!"
Nan-in replied "Like this cup you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?"
Zen Teaching
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Zen is about emptying ones cup, not filling it up with more...
Oh to live free in this moment and not even notice it
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"Zen is about emptying ones cup, not filling it up with more..."
ah but the rub is this applies to the individual perception only.
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Wei is there any other perception than individual perception?
alas here is my own mental ****...
damn... will go and do 10 minutes inner silence, too come back on track
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Mornings Son wrote:Wei is there any other perception than individual perception?
alas here is my own mental ****...
damn... will go and do 10 minutes inner silence, too come back on track
Yeah I know what you mean bro...that's why I called it the rub, lol.
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And in true Zen fashion we could delete this entire forum and start over.
Of course I would only want this if everyone agreed to it...and rounding up everyone who participated is not so likely...but the idea we could do it. And also the idea we don't have to.
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It is a great day... maybe..
Wei for once I feel in complete agreement with you:
'Delete the entire forum and start over'
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Whether we do or don't is fine with me.
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MS,
Note that all the sub-forums contain threads of great diversity...some are poignant and some downright irrelevant, depending on who's doing the reading. You take Zen to be so precious a subject perhaps that you feel its tainted by being put into words that you deem irrelevant to its body of understanding?...that's why I said empty your cup...the saying to delete the forum was just to show its Zen fashion to not hold anything. Your last response leads me to observe you are holding still onto this idea Zen has been tainted with words, and in this sense...your cup is full.
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Wei
Zen is something for me and its not the same as what this boards puts up.
Its not that zen is tainted by words here, it is rather like 'f*ing for virginity'.
Not my cup of tea..
Yeah not to hold on to anything is a good advice, thanks. I let it go.
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I hear ya
You said before for the first time we agreed on something...its technically the second...we both liked that "one word" silence song by Kelly Osborne, One Word...Zen...perhaps.
You may have an understanding of Zen, but all the words here are just a way for people to explore.
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My understanding.... BLAH .... only giving the flow of Mind life is important.
Thanks Wei for this little ending curl on the conversation
Gassho
MS
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Loved that..... mysteriuos stranger quote!!!!!
As I was reading the part about loneliness and feeing the melancholy another vagrant landed on the
Side mirror of my taxi just long enough to look me in the eye and say hi. That lttle sparrow had already mastered vagrancy!
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Lex, you may love these poems of Shinkichi Takahashi; your sparrow story reminded me of his poetry wherein sparrow is often vagrant protagonist.
http://books.google.com/b...nepage&q&f=false
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ah, mastering vagrancy...what a thrill! Little sparrow's companion. Love's wind blows the sails of hoisted freedom.
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"As I was reading the part about loneliness and feeling the melancholy"
Interesting note on vagrancy you reveal. It is not invulnerability, it is drifting along with unconcern!
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