Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Lunoor wrote:Wei Shan Yang wrote:
"Its only a perceptual experience of such (so the potential to be completely free is available)."
name me an experience that
doesn't include perception...
I'm glad you asked this, because its a subtle distinction actually. We have the perception of 'whatever it is', and yet not attached to it. Such as, have you even had the experience of being in the midst of anger and yet so completely not attached at the same time? Its almost like you are viewing yourself from another perspective that has no cares and sees whats happening and also what is happening, the anger, just plays out like a play, and you do feel it too, but the detachment makes it subtly different in experience. I used the example of anger, any emotion would have sufficed.
Having experienced this myself, and having it occur now on a continual basis, I can only call it one thing, Controlled Folly. Actually I could call it whatever I want, but to use a recognizable term. And talking about it maybe obscures it, but the alternative is to not talk and I say its better to talk about it.
"And yes it helps us evolve in the relative sense."
The whole idea of evolution is fulcrumed on the perception of pinpointed occurrences relative to other pinpointed occurrences of relative beings and other
relative phenomena-ing in linear time and is a paradigm created by relative beings to describe what they think they see...which is elephant talk for: how can one evolve in an un-relative sense?
You don't evolve in the un-relative sense. There's a quote here in the forum from DJ that says the warrior strives to change even whilst knowing there is nothing to change. That quote hits upon this very understanding.
Maybe the part about my communications here that you are not understanding is I am not advocating a withdrawal from the experience of the relative. Its just when you have your other foot in un-relativeness, the elephant is not solid, he's empty, always was but you see it clearly now.
"I was embracing my childhood "wounds" as powerful imprints that helped me become strong. "
That's not how I look at it, if I were to put it in similar terms I would say something more along the lines of "my childhood wounds suck! Damn those conditions coupled with my genetic tendencies held this deliciousness back for so many years, and still puts a pinch on now and again, OUCH that HURTS!" and by experiencing that where I am atness as the feelings occur a some while later I can laugh and sing somehow. But that is a reduction--on with complicated life!
Well, keep in mind Lunoor, this is what you wrote about wounds previously that tells a different story and is what I was referring to:
Post 44 - "So for me these wounds have been the path to my heart, the doorkeeper at
the gate of the enlightenments I have experienced. I didn't get here by
an out of the blue change of perception, I got here by effort and grace."
So you are saying your wounds "got you to your heart" and that's the same as how I used to talk about them. And its not untrue actually, its just I don't identify with that any longer, and can't go back to that due to the energy already being freed up and can't reassume previous form (I don't think). Nor would I want to go back to that. Not that its a bad experience, I know its a very good experience.
"That was how I viewed things then. You can see now my view has changed."
No I can't see that wei shan, I am reading that you say your view has changed but since I have very short term experience with you I haven't been there to witness that.
I just mean my posts here don't advocate that view and since I told you what the view was, you can see it here by comparison. That is, currently I am not talking about wounds as being devices for anything relevant to me now.
"When you have no pity, you can experience unyielding compassion in that moment."
What good is a breast that doesn't yield? When no milk flows how's the babe to grow?
Pity is actually an ugly thing. So to have no pity is to be free of it's influence. People can commit suicide because they are overcome with pity. So its definitely to be avoided. And to those wallowing in it, they would ask, "how could I avoid it, its right here biting away at me like a hungry beast! And you expect me to just drop it?" And thus they reveal why it is hideously ugly and devouring. The breast of pity does not yield any milk, only suffering and pain. Milk is seeing pity is nothing, its an illusion, a false path not worth going down. But, as I said before, its often the trip into this hell of pity and back that is the only way to realize this.
" If you don't release your identity with wounds completely, you become a righteous crusader (for the wronged victims). Nothing wrong with that, but there's more for us, to be completely free."
not this not that without this without that
"And by no means do I think it happens over night nor is it something you don't constantly have to work at. But from my own experience, shifts do happen suddenly, granted its probably initially due to years of effort (like that which you express here) that finally give way to a breakthrough."
I agree that shifts can happen suddenly, but they won't become integrated in the experience if the work isn't being done leading to imbalance in one's person.
Can you elaborate on what you mean here?
"And once you see it happens suddenly, you know future expereinces can happen this way and you intend it so. That is, you prefer the swiftness and wait for it because you intended it."
Yeah it can be motivating.
Motivating? That's not how I see it. I see it as liberating. But not in the ideal sense of the word, as in "what a liberating experience" but rather that it gets you out in a jiffy.
"And yes this is my perspective and that only which is from experience, and I realize you have yours as well."
Yes
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
http://www.muzu.tv/player/getPlayer/a/0 ... idId=42119
Paul Rodgers and Brian May - All right now
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
A childhood favorite Guantanamera
http://www.muzu.tv/player/getPlayer/a/0 ... idId=42149
Wyclef Jean - Marc Anthony - Guantanamera / Hot Hot Hot
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
The elephant is the nagual of the tonal.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
The Tonal is the road to the Nagual, that is, that which we perceive the Nagual through, a part of the Nagual that individuates and has experiences on the earth plane. I don't think I can get to the Nagual by severing the tonal from it, I think I have a better chance by working through the wounds in order to more clearly see the whole.
Here is a cool story I read sometime ago and have been looking around for, finally found it today, it is told by Ramakrishna:
“In a certain forest lived a holy man who had many disciples. Once he taught the disciples that they should bow down to all recognizing that God dwells in all beings. One day one of the disciples went to the forest to bring firewood for the sacrificial fire. All of a sudden there was an outcry, ‘Run, run all, wherever you are! A mad elephant is passing!’ Everybody ran, but the disciple did not flee. He knew that the elephant was also God. So he thought, ‘Why should I run away?’ So thinking he stood still and began to sing praises, bowing before the animal. The mahout on the elephant was, however, shouting, ‘Run, run!’ The disciple still did not move. Finally the elephant came and lifting him up with its trunk threw him on one side and left. The disciple was heavily bruised and lay unconscious on the ground.
“Hearing what had happened his teacher and the other disciples came and carried him to the ashram. He was given medicine. Upon his regaining consciousness sometime later some one asked him, ‘Why did you not run away after hearing that the elephant was coming?’ He said, ‘The teacher had told me that God himself had become all these men, animals and the rest. That is why I did not move away, seeing that it was only God who was coming as elephant.’ The teacher then said, ‘Yes, my child, it is true that the elephant God was coming, but the mahout God did warn you. Since all are God why did you not pay heed to his words? One should also listen to the words of the mahout God.’”
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Wei Shan Yang wrote:Lunoor wrote:Wei Shan Yang wrote:
"Its only a perceptual experience of such (so the potential to be completely free is available)."
name me an experience that
doesn't include perception...
I'm glad you asked this, because its a subtle distinction actually. We have the perception of 'whatever it is', and yet not attached to it. Such as, have you even had the experience of being in the midst of anger and yet so completely not attached at the same time? Its almost like you are viewing yourself from another perspective that has no cares and sees whats happening and also what is happening, the anger, just plays out like a play, and you do feel it too, but the detachment makes it subtly different in experience. I used the example of anger, any emotion would have sufficed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an experience which includes perception, it doesn't matter whether it is a subtle perception or a run of the mill perception, experience and perception are the right and left hand in hand.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Having experienced this myself, and having it occur now on a continual basis, I can only call it one thing, Controlled Folly. Actually I could call it whatever I want, but to use a recognizable term. And talking about it maybe obscures it, but the alternative is to not talk and I say its better to talk about it.
"And yes it helps us evolve in the relative sense."
The whole idea of evolution is fulcrumed on the perception of pinpointed occurrences relative to other pinpointed occurrences of relative beings and other
relative phenomena-ing� in linear time and is a paradigm created by relative beings to describe what they think they see...which is elephant talk for: how can one evolve in an un-relative sense?
You don't evolve in the un-relative sense. There's a quote here in the forum from DJ that says the warrior strives to change even whilst knowing there is nothing to change. That quote hits upon this very understanding.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was your statement: "And yes it helps us to evolve in the relative sense." that implied that you might think we do evolve in an un-relative sense otherwise why not simply state "and yes it helps us to evolve" or would that be too much of an endorsement for your comfort level?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the part about my communications here that you are not understanding is I am not advocating a withdrawal from the experience of the relative. Its just when you have your other foot in un-relativeness, the elephant is not solid, he's empty, always was but you see it clearly now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We always have a foot planted in the un-relative, it just isn't commonly seen, I think working with the tonal imprints helps clear the view and then we know we have a foot in each.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I was embracing my childhood "wounds" as powerful imprints that helped me become strong. "
That's not how I look at it, if I were to put it in similar terms I would say something more along the lines of "my childhood wounds suck! Damn those conditions coupled with my genetic tendencies held this deliciousness back for so many years, and still puts a pinch on now and again, OUCH that HURTS!" and by experiencing that where I am atness as the feelings occur a some while later I can laugh and sing somehow. But that is a reduction--on with complicated life!
Well, keep in mind Lunoor, this is what you wrote about wounds previously that tells a different story and is what I was referring to:
Post 44 - "So for me these wounds have been the path to my heart, the doorkeeper at
the gate of the enlightenments I have experienced. I didn't get here by
an out of the blue change of perception, I got here by effort and grace."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are indeed, and I say OUCH and that HURTS along the way at times. Sometimes when I am at the apex of my tears they turn to laughter and bring a light in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you are saying your wounds "got you to your heart" and that's the same as how I used to talk about them. And its not untrue actually, its just I don't identify with that any longer, and can't go back to that due to the energy already being freed up and can't reassume previous form (I don't think). Nor would I want to go back to that. Not that its a bad experience, I know its a very good experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I simply said the wounds are real, in addition to working on those I also like playing, singing, dancing, trancing, writing, gardening and aweing at the mystery of it all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That was how I viewed things then. You can see now my view has changed."
No I can't see that wei shan, I am reading that you say your view has changed but since I have very short term experience with you I haven't been there to witness that.
I just mean my posts here don't advocate that view and since I told you what the view was, you can see it here by comparison. That is, currently I am not talking about wounds as being devices for anything relevant to me now.
"When you have no pity, you can experience unyielding compassion in that moment."
What good is a breast that doesn't yield? When no milk flows how's the babe to grow?
Pity is actually an ugly thing. So to have no pity is to be free of it's influence. People can commit suicide because they are overcome with pity. So its definitely to be avoided. And to those wallowing in it, they would ask, "how could I avoid it, its right here biting away at me like a hungry beast! And you expect me to just drop it?" And thus they reveal why it is hideously ugly and devouring. The breast of pity does not yield any milk, only suffering and pain. Milk is seeing pity is nothing, its an illusion, a false path not worth going down. But, as I said before, its often the trip into this hell of pity and back that is the only way to realize this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't experience this breast with milk as wallowing self-pity, I experience it as compassion, it doesn't make me want to commit suicide it make me want to dance and shout and sing! I think you are looking at a different breast than I am.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
" If you don't release your identity with wounds completely, you become a righteous crusader (for the wronged victims). Nothing wrong with that, but there's more for us, to be completely free."
not this not that without this without that
"And by no means do I think it happens over night nor is it something you don't constantly have to work at. But from my own experience, shifts do happen suddenly, granted its probably initially due to years of effort (like that which you express here) that finally give way to a breakthrough."
I agree that shifts can happen suddenly, but they won't become integrated in the experience if the work isn't being done leading to imbalance in one's person.
Can you elaborate on what you mean here?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I recall an experience of sudden perceptual change; it lasted around two weeks and was a dramatic lessening of plus change in the content of my internal dialogue accompanied by feelings of peace and bliss, however at that time I was a long way from peace and bliss overall and when the experience left I thought I was enlightened and special because of it, it inflated my ego causing further unbalance. As I do the work I find it grounds me and helps keep such perceptual shifts from becoming episodes of the same.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems pretty obvious to me that you consider yourself to be more advanced than I am,
and that you set out to prove it in words, however I don't see it that way. I will leave you to ponder
that for yourself or not, as you like it.....I am
stepping out of this labyrinth of words for now.
A parting video:
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
"It was your statement: "And yes it helps us to evolve in the relative sense." that implied that you might think we do evolve in an un-relative sense otherwise why not simply state "and yes it helps us to evolve" or would that be too much of an endorsement for your comfort level?"
Again, how can evolution even occur in the un-relative? And perhaps the more interesting point is, it doesn't need to. And from this exiciting discovery of the perfection, completion, unity... compassion springs forth.
The milk of pity? How did I come up with that?...well, when you first posted about it it was in this context:
"When you have no pity, you can experience unyielding compassion in that moment." Wei
"What good is a breast that doesn't yield? When no milk flows how's the babe to grow?" Lunoor
Compassion replaces pity, because pity would only see suffering in light of inequalities, injustices, and limitations. Compassion sees from a state of equilibrium. It cares to reach out even though it knows ultimately no one needs help because ultimatly all is unbreakable, undestroyable, endless, beginningless. It helps in the relative sense but sees much farther than it, so the relative never gets a foothold.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
"It seems pretty obvious to me that you consider yourself to be more advanced than I am,
and that you set out to prove it in words, however I don't see it that way. I will leave you to ponder
that for yourself or not, as you like it.....I am
stepping out of this labyrinth of words for now."
I read your posts and if I have anything to say that I feel would bring insight, I say it. I know we are all advanced and no one can be moreso than another. Its just the factor of realizing it. And realizing happens in the moment, and it ebbs and flows. So even things like advanced and unadvanced really are not permanent either.
My tendency is to challenge myself and others. I cannot convey to you how high a regard I hold your ability to know, but I'll try. I don't see us as any different. Nor do I sit contemplating from whence we come in terms of whos more advanced or not. I just see something to say and I say it. For me to attach to what I did would simply be an attachment right there. So its a paradox, that the desire to advance, be advanced, etc actually stifles it. One has no choice be to be humble. And not compete by judging others. I don't judge you. Or think about you beyond this point. I don't even think I could encapsulate you in a definition, nor myself or anyone. We are just exchanging here on what is meaningful to us and seeing how it intersects or if it does. But change will change, so its just a moment of synchronicity. It changes us and then we move on, and on and on.
I know my style rubs people at times (because I often push logic to its limits and then it has nowhere to go). I do it with myself too so people only see I do it to them, haha! If they only knew. And for all of us to have the same style, seems we'd be missing out on the broadness of diverse views and approaches (that challenge). I admire people who have real tact and diplomacy with others and put them at ease, that's important to, to lubricate the cogs of interaction, but also acknowledge its generally not my style, but things could change one day...it could become my style later on, but I'm not worried about it if it does or not. I know all serve the whole rather than the sum of parts being separable.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Can you elaborate on what you mean here?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I recall an experience of sudden perceptual change; it lasted around two weeks and was a dramatic lessening of plus change in the content of my internal dialogue accompanied by feelings of peace and bliss, however at that time I was a long way from peace and bliss overall and when the experience left I thought I was enlightened and special because of it, it inflated my ego causing further unbalance. As I do the work I find it grounds me and helps keep such perceptual shifts from becoming episodes of� the same.
I think peace and bliss are in the relative perhaps?
What about experiencing all the range of emotions but underlying is a total detachment from them? Detachment implies the emotional aspects are not regarded or felt, but I say they are regarded and felt, whist being detached. So something is severed and can never be put back (and truly it was always this way). Always there's these two disconnected components--the self and all its identities, and the part that witnesses but is untouched by, our true nature, but so undefinable that the mere mention of true nature seems to obscure and make it relative.
To me perceptual shifts happen because of our unrelative "aspect", but what occurs as a product applies to the relative, and this means no matter what, folly.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
lunoor. love king crimson. esp that one. 21st century, red nightmare, starless hand
-the elephant is a ghost- warrior's answer
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I am listening to Matte Kudasai now, beautiful~last night when i read your reply I had Elephant Talk in my mind's ear for awhile before I came in here.
Ghost warriors are hidden and come out unexpectedly?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Check this another s~~~~~~~~~~~~t
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
"Ghost warriors are hidden and come out unexpectedly?"
will check out matte kudasai -egyptian ma'at/maat means truth or hair
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
yeah frame by frame is amazing- excellent
does anybody else feel like they can act into even a prerecorded video?. like interact?
like in the same way when you peer hard at a person live in person they respond with like a sideways glance of the head. i get the same reaction in videos
those cymbols in the background look just like smiling buddhas
matte kudasai is new to me. deeply beautiful
can you get enough crimson?
three of a perfect pair sounds a bit like frame by frame
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
getting bulky.
good others to check out starless. i talk to the wind. larks tongues in aspic II. etc.
these guys are sorcerer elephants for sure. heard they ate lots of sydnes
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mhsgt7s ... re=related
this last one is my anthem. really it's probably epitaph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxDNVHIS ... feature=BF
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
elephant ghost, claypool also is a double being
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I listened to King Crimson alot when I was younger, they were definitely ahead of their time and quite enjoyable.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
yeah. a bit demonic i find. but definitely have that infinity vibe. still say its that acid. allies can be that way i suppose.
hey you alright lone wolf? saw a few tornados are tearing you up in az. assuming you got the power to stand up to one.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Hahah...never saw them allies but imagine they had fun AS.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
allies huh? tell more if you will. tornadoes have been following around places pertaining to the attention of dreaming as seen by this person. one almost killed mama, gave her quite a start. and another in a place in michigan - manistee forest bowman lake where i ended up a couple of months ago. and then those right after you posted about king crimson here. seems more than coincidence. does anybody have command over them?
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
I don't have command over them, no way, but I once had a dream a long while back wherein I was blessed by one. This was way back when I hadn't fully left the religion I was brought up with, wasn't going to church or believing it anymore but its traces were still very much there. In the dream I ran into a church basement to be safe and the tornado came right on in and spun above the crown of my head.
Can't hide from Spirit in a church, heh, i think shielding the sheep from God is one of the functions of church but in my case it didn't take permanently, lucky for me.
Posts: 0
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2019
Ah, AS I hadn't gotten to all these videos yet! Thanks for putting up the Moon Child for me
|
