04-12-2011, 12:01 AM
Nu Lang wrote:
Its not an assumption about how we continue, always there will be an "other". Friend, foe, or stranger...an 'other'.
My only point here is that everything you are saying IS an assumption. If not, plese provide direct personal examples of how you KNOW that what you are saying is Truth and not just belief. I'm not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, despite what you may think. I am merely observing that you make a LOT of blanket statements with absolutely NOTHING to support them other than your conviction. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make it true.
If not this then the alternate options are... oblivion. Or empty space...yikes...an infinity of floating in a black void...who wants that? Or an eternity with just inanimate objects? Again, no thanks. I know those options are not true becasue it would be preposterous, and to argue for them to be true would be absurd anyway.
You seem to see things in relation to humanform ideas here - meaning that you cannot conceive of something OTHER than a void, or an extension of our humanform existence. Third attention is "unknowable" from our human perspective, so this kind of speculation really only builds expectations which MIGHT get in the way of what actually IS. What actually IS? There's no way to say - which is why the warrior strives to be without expectations and without dependencies.
We are all dependent on others. You may say you're not, but you in fact do not live a life without others to even know what that's like, and I say, who'd want to do it anyway...have no one at all? We need others. Your logic is tripping you up. Your words do not reflect the truth about life.
Your words do not reflect the truth about life either - and that's my point. You keep making these absurd blanket statements and then "fighting" for them without ANY sense of reason. All I'm asking is that you stop TALKING for a moment and THINK about some of your comments BEFORE putting them forth as AbsoluteTruth (which they simply are not). I suspect you need-to-believe what I'm saying is not true, because only then can you go on believing what you believe instead of simply LOOKING at what-is.
I see what has happened with your perception.
Actually, you don't see that at all. Another assumption.
You are thinking you need to point out to me that there is a state of detachment so as not to need others.
That's not what I said. I said that your current position demonstrates a dependency on others, when this is a solitary path. I have never said we do not "need" others - although I can allow for that possibility, just as I can allow for the possibility that eternity just MIGHT be something I cannot conceive at all from this current level of humanform thinking. I am not compelled to project my beliefs onto eternity and am the first to say I could be wrong. My question is if you have even allowed for that possibility within yourself. Could you be wrong? Is it possible that your adamant insistence on your "truth" is nothing more than a way to attempt to create a consensus with "others"? And, if so, what will happen to that consensus when you die alone (as all beings do)?
Never is there goign to be a case where you/me/anyone will not need others. Never. You need others right now in your life. For example, if no one at this forum was friendly towards you, if all those who posted here responded hostile towards you, you would not stay here. You would see no point in being in such an environment where you were not needed. We need and we need to be needed.
LOL. Actually, most people really DON'T like me - and I'm quite okay with that. Reason being... I've had to accept that being WHO I-Am is far more important than being liked. I once had to terminate a relationship with my best friend because she wanted me to validate her weaknesses and essentially tell her it was okay and even good for her to be the least she can be instead of striving to be the most she could be. That's what a "good friend" might do - hand out lots of sympathy and "oh-poor-baby's - but it's not what a warrior does. Reason being: the moment I become untrue to myself, I am nothing but one more Agent Smith towing the party line and guarding the status quo.
With that said, I TRY to be reasonable with people, I even try to be "nice" on occasion... but normally I reserve that "niceness" for ordinary men & women living & breathing within the consensual reality. With other warriors, I make every attempt to be brutally honest. If nobody likes me as a result, I can live with that.
Buddhism, as its been dispersed to the mainstream, is often used as an example of detachment, and from this many conclude that it all comes from within, the happiness etc is from the Buddha realm within. But what people often don't see is, its also the outward that reflects the inward and gives the inward meaning. So its not just within, its without too. Without is where we find the companion(s). This is God without and reflects the God within, both are needed. If you don't like the word God then Spirit. Words (descriptions) are not so important to me as you seeing my intent.
I do see your Intent, which is really the only reason I have invested time and energy into this conversation. The only problem I'm seeing is that a lot of what I'm reading seems to be an attempt to validate your beliefs to yourself - and the reality is that some of what you believe MAY not be accurate (just as ANY beliefs may not be accurate, my own readily included!). The reason I appear to be picking on you is because you either are or soon will be at a crossroad with your journey, where your foundation will be sorely tested. If your "beliefs" turn out to be nothing but "faith" (another word for belief), the foundation may crumble - and I can tell you from experience that that ain't good. So all I'm saying - bottom line - is to simply stop and ask yourself WHY you believe certain things. When you really get real with yourself in that regard, you usually discover that our beliefs are based on what we've read, what we've been told, or what we've CONCLUDED - but seldom on direct personal experience (which is the ONLY criteria for KNOWLEDGE).
I could just give up and be "nice", but would that really be any value to you?
Its not an assumption about how we continue, always there will be an "other". Friend, foe, or stranger...an 'other'.
My only point here is that everything you are saying IS an assumption. If not, plese provide direct personal examples of how you KNOW that what you are saying is Truth and not just belief. I'm not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, despite what you may think. I am merely observing that you make a LOT of blanket statements with absolutely NOTHING to support them other than your conviction. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make it true.
If not this then the alternate options are... oblivion. Or empty space...yikes...an infinity of floating in a black void...who wants that? Or an eternity with just inanimate objects? Again, no thanks. I know those options are not true becasue it would be preposterous, and to argue for them to be true would be absurd anyway.
You seem to see things in relation to humanform ideas here - meaning that you cannot conceive of something OTHER than a void, or an extension of our humanform existence. Third attention is "unknowable" from our human perspective, so this kind of speculation really only builds expectations which MIGHT get in the way of what actually IS. What actually IS? There's no way to say - which is why the warrior strives to be without expectations and without dependencies.
We are all dependent on others. You may say you're not, but you in fact do not live a life without others to even know what that's like, and I say, who'd want to do it anyway...have no one at all? We need others. Your logic is tripping you up. Your words do not reflect the truth about life.
Your words do not reflect the truth about life either - and that's my point. You keep making these absurd blanket statements and then "fighting" for them without ANY sense of reason. All I'm asking is that you stop TALKING for a moment and THINK about some of your comments BEFORE putting them forth as AbsoluteTruth (which they simply are not). I suspect you need-to-believe what I'm saying is not true, because only then can you go on believing what you believe instead of simply LOOKING at what-is.
I see what has happened with your perception.
Actually, you don't see that at all. Another assumption.
You are thinking you need to point out to me that there is a state of detachment so as not to need others.
That's not what I said. I said that your current position demonstrates a dependency on others, when this is a solitary path. I have never said we do not "need" others - although I can allow for that possibility, just as I can allow for the possibility that eternity just MIGHT be something I cannot conceive at all from this current level of humanform thinking. I am not compelled to project my beliefs onto eternity and am the first to say I could be wrong. My question is if you have even allowed for that possibility within yourself. Could you be wrong? Is it possible that your adamant insistence on your "truth" is nothing more than a way to attempt to create a consensus with "others"? And, if so, what will happen to that consensus when you die alone (as all beings do)?
Never is there goign to be a case where you/me/anyone will not need others. Never. You need others right now in your life. For example, if no one at this forum was friendly towards you, if all those who posted here responded hostile towards you, you would not stay here. You would see no point in being in such an environment where you were not needed. We need and we need to be needed.
LOL. Actually, most people really DON'T like me - and I'm quite okay with that. Reason being... I've had to accept that being WHO I-Am is far more important than being liked. I once had to terminate a relationship with my best friend because she wanted me to validate her weaknesses and essentially tell her it was okay and even good for her to be the least she can be instead of striving to be the most she could be. That's what a "good friend" might do - hand out lots of sympathy and "oh-poor-baby's - but it's not what a warrior does. Reason being: the moment I become untrue to myself, I am nothing but one more Agent Smith towing the party line and guarding the status quo.
With that said, I TRY to be reasonable with people, I even try to be "nice" on occasion... but normally I reserve that "niceness" for ordinary men & women living & breathing within the consensual reality. With other warriors, I make every attempt to be brutally honest. If nobody likes me as a result, I can live with that.
Buddhism, as its been dispersed to the mainstream, is often used as an example of detachment, and from this many conclude that it all comes from within, the happiness etc is from the Buddha realm within. But what people often don't see is, its also the outward that reflects the inward and gives the inward meaning. So its not just within, its without too. Without is where we find the companion(s). This is God without and reflects the God within, both are needed. If you don't like the word God then Spirit. Words (descriptions) are not so important to me as you seeing my intent.
I do see your Intent, which is really the only reason I have invested time and energy into this conversation. The only problem I'm seeing is that a lot of what I'm reading seems to be an attempt to validate your beliefs to yourself - and the reality is that some of what you believe MAY not be accurate (just as ANY beliefs may not be accurate, my own readily included!). The reason I appear to be picking on you is because you either are or soon will be at a crossroad with your journey, where your foundation will be sorely tested. If your "beliefs" turn out to be nothing but "faith" (another word for belief), the foundation may crumble - and I can tell you from experience that that ain't good. So all I'm saying - bottom line - is to simply stop and ask yourself WHY you believe certain things. When you really get real with yourself in that regard, you usually discover that our beliefs are based on what we've read, what we've been told, or what we've CONCLUDED - but seldom on direct personal experience (which is the ONLY criteria for KNOWLEDGE).
I could just give up and be "nice", but would that really be any value to you?