Teachers, should they charge?

[Sacateca.sorcery]

Once a warrior's connecting link to Intent becomes strong enough and he or she lives properly and inspires Intent to grace life to overflowing with good and wonderful things, they realize that in being connected to the entire universe THEY ARE NEVER TRULY ALONE! They become children of the Universe through realizing that they were always children of the Universe.
However, I have not fully realized this as fact. That being the case the most important aspects of what I just stated are...mythology.
The tendency of humans is obviously to want to believe mythology as cold, hard fact. People may talk about Jesus, or Buddha, or Castaneda's don Juan or anyone else as though what they taught is absolute fact. The sane realize that the only things they can truly count on from anyone's teachings are what can be empirically verified and made empirically useful in one's own life. All the rest is mythology and should be treated with a detached casual skepticism. Just because Castaneda wrote that don Juan did something does not automatically make it empirically true. The same goes for Jesus, the Buddha and anyone else's life where situations we cannot empirically verify are presented to us.
The more I harmoniously clean and refine my connecting link to Intent through the glorious world of Nature the more I realize that I am truly interconnecting to all life everywhere and all at once. In such a reality how I can I possibly be “alone”. If a warrior feels alone it is a sign that their connecting link to Intent is not very clear and strong.

[Sacateca.sorcery]

It is the tendency of people to have little to no real appreciation for a free gift of knowledge. In order to evoke essential appreciation for important knowledge I feel the imparters of important knowledge should charge for what they teach just as any tutor charges for what he or she teaches. Those who expect a free ride from the Spirit of Intent will most certainly accomplish little to nothing worth accomplishing.
Don Juan did not charge Castaneda for his teachings because Castaneda wanted to pay don Juan so that he could manipulate him by making him subservient through payment. That would have been detrimental to all don Juan was doing. Castaneda made payments in other ways like driving don Juan around and buying him groceries and, I would imagine, other ways not shared in his writings.
Yes, I feel certain don Juan was an actual personage. No one was crying 'fraud' until Castaneda wrote Tales of Power and purportedly jumped physically from a cliff in Mexico and found himself back in Los Angeles apparently...car and all. What does this say? It says that Carlos Castaneda was accurately portraying himself as a person. He was not a person who could have made the don Juan philosophy up on his own and fool all those college professors into giving him a Ph.D. That's what it says!

[Nu Lang]

Enchantra wrote:Nu Lang wrote:I can respond here Alien. To answer about solitary journey...ask yourself...when have you ever been truly alone? All your life as you know it there were others on your journey with you, why do you think after death it would/should be any different? What is your view of the afterlife? A place where you are SURE there no others warriors around?
My posts in this thread seem to be disappearing, but I shall make on more attempt.  For you Nu Lang, perhaps it is not the case, but I can understand what alien is saying about being alone.
We are born alone, we die alone. I've spent the majority of my life alone and while there may be a warrior that pops into it from time to time, I know this is my joureny and mine alone to make.  So just because there are others with us, right now, does not mean that we are not still completely alone.  I don't think there are words to adequately describe this to those who do not feel this way.  Either you get the alone thing, or you don't.  I know a couple of people who get this, not including alien, and for them, and for me, the realization brings a complete and utter sadness, yet at the same time, it also brings a freedom!
To be alone in the physical sense, none of us have really been exposed to this in a long-term way as to say we could do it through infinity, again that's excruciating to even endure, and no one has even come close to knowing what that experience would be like because alwasy there have been people in our lives. Also, we see people die and assume what they experience is done 'alone' but if dying is like entering a dream, we know that dreams contain other dreamers too. Where is there a true void of isolation? Ever? Only in our individual perception do we experience loneliness, outside us there are always 'beings' traveling with us, both friends and foes and strangers. I say its good to have our friends with us. Why would one not seek this?
I have already said perceiving is a solitary affair. And I know it well, very very well. Sooner then you had to I'd say becasue I lost my mother at age 18 months and had to endure that loneliness at such a young age. Also, my name Wei Nu Lang means Lone She-wolf.

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:To be alone in the physical sense, none of us have really been exposed to this in a long-term way as to say we could do it through infinity, again that's excruciating to even endure, and no one has even come close to knowing what that experience would be like because alwasy there have been people in our lives. Also, we see people die and assume what they experience is done 'alone' but if dying is like entering a dream, we know that dreams contain other dreamers too. Where is there a true void of isolation? Ever? Only in our individual perception do we experience loneliness, outside us there are always 'beings' traveling with us, both friends and foes and strangers. I say its good to have our friends with us. Why would one not seek this?
I have already said perceiving is a solitary affair. And I know it well, very very well. Sooner then you had to I'd say becasue I lost my mother at age 18 months and had to endure that loneliness at such a young age. Also, my name Wei Nu Lang means Lone She-wolf. 
All I can say to this is that I can't explain something that words can not describe.  Some people feel this alone-ness and some do not.   That's okay.   Many roads lead to nowhere. 
There are people in the world, like me that are born into families
that they don't belong in, are not part of, are alien to.  One can never
overcome that, and that brings a loneliness, too.

[ninth octave]

Nu Lang wrote:
Enchantra wrote:

Nu Lang wrote:
I can respond here Alien. To answer about solitary journey...ask yourself...when have you ever been truly alone? All your life as you know it there were others on your journey with you, why do you think after death it would/should be any different? What is your view of the afterlife? A place where you are SURE there no others warriors around?
My posts in this thread seem to be disappearing, but I shall make on more attempt.  For you Nu Lang, perhaps it is not the case, but I can understand what alien is saying about being alone.
We are born alone, we die alone. I've spent the majority of my life alone and while there may be a warrior that pops into it from time to time, I know this is my joureny and mine alone to make.  So just because there are others with us, right now, does not mean that we are not still completely alone.  I don't think there are words to adequately describe this to those who do not feel this way.  Either you get the alone thing, or you don't.  I know a couple of people who get this, not including alien, and for them, and for me, the realization brings a complete and utter sadness, yet at the same time, it also brings a freedom!
To be alone in the physical sense, none of us have really been exposed to this in a long-term way as to say we could do it through infinity, again that's excruciating to even endure, and no one has even come close to knowing what that experience would be like because alwasy there have been people in our lives. Also, we see people die and assume what they experience is done 'alone' but if dying is like entering a dream, we know that dreams contain other dreamers too. Where is there a true void of isolation? Ever? Only in our individual perception do we experience loneliness, outside us there are always 'beings' traveling with us, both friends and foes and strangers. I say its good to have our friends with us. Why would one not seek this?
I have already said perceiving is a solitary affair. And I know it well, very very well. Sooner then you had to I'd say becasue I lost my mother at age 18 months and had to endure that loneliness at such a young age. Also, my name Wei Nu Lang means Lone She-wolf. 

To be permanently absent from the physical body means the physical death of the body has happened. Our awareness continues onward forever into eternity//infinity. There is plenty of evidence that we are not alone in the afterlife. Just as in birth , there is someone pushing us out , someone  helping to pull us out. So we are never really alone in conception or birth.  Why would death be any different? 
 
   I was once in a crowd of people that numbered near a million people. At one point I found myself " lost " not knowing where my friends or family members went.  I  quickly remembered we all had agreed on a designated  meeting place if anyone thought they were lost.

[Nu Lang]

Enchantra wrote:Nu Lang wrote:To be alone in the physical sense, none of us have really been exposed to this in a long-term way as to say we could do it through infinity, again that's excruciating to even endure, and no one has even come close to knowing what that experience would be like because alwasy there have been people in our lives. Also, we see people die and assume what they experience is done 'alone' but if dying is like entering a dream, we know that dreams contain other dreamers too. Where is there a true void of isolation? Ever? Only in our individual perception do we experience loneliness, outside us there are always 'beings' traveling with us, both friends and foes and strangers. I say its good to have our friends with us. Why would one not seek this?
I have already said perceiving is a solitary affair. And I know it well, very very well. Sooner then you had to I'd say becasue I lost my mother at age 18 months and had to endure that loneliness at such a young age. Also, my name Wei Nu Lang means Lone She-wolf. 
All I can say to this is that I can't explain something that words can not describe.  Some people feel this alone-ness and some do not.   That's okay.   Many roads lead to nowhere. 
There are people in the world, like me that are born into families
that they don't belong in, are not part of, are alien to.  One can never
overcome that, and that brings a loneliness, too. 
What gives Enchantra?...I've already said I know loneliness as a feeling, what more do I have to say, I cannot possibly say it any more directly then I have. So even as I say it, you say I'm not saying it, yet I am, lol.

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:
What gives Enchantra?...I've already said I know loneliness as a feeling, what more do I have to say, I cannot possibly say it any more directly then I have. So even as I say it, you say I'm not saying it, yet I am, lol.
Yes, I understand you.

[Nu Lang]

ninth octave wrote:To be permanently absent from the physical body means the physical death of the body has happened. Our awareness continues onward forever into eternity//infinity. There is plenty of evidence that we are not alone in the afterlife. Just as in birth , there is someone pushing us out , someone  helping to pull us out. So we are never really alone in conception or birth.  Why would death be any different? 
 
   I was once in a crowd of people that numbered near a million people. At one point I found myself " lost " not knowing where my friends or family members went.  I  quickly remembered we all had agreed on a designated  meeting place if anyone thought they were lost.   
Right...I've seen this too. Death cannot be any different, even if the
worlds we witness are different, the experience of 'others' will always
be. So its best to seek out/make plans to be with those you care to be with. Nice post Ninth.

[Nu Lang]

Lets explore this idea of isolation a bit more....just losing all your friends, those who show you any kindness in this life, that alone is enough to make one not want to live any longer. No one here has had that happen, but we can imagine it...



There is a Twilight Zone episode where the man loses his identity, so his wife, boss and friends, absolutely everyone he knows does not recognize him, to them he is a complete stranger...imagine that happening to any of us and that is what journeying infinity alone would be like. Who'd want that? Always we need at least a friend, as my avatar shows. Its from Midnight Cowboy, a movie where the end scene ushers in that mood of loneliness and thus highlights just how important friends are, whether they are family members, people we know, or warriors we know, but I say especially journey with warriors, because without them we cannot express our seeing as we do.

[alien]

Nu Lang wrote:
Lets explore this idea of isolation a bit more....just losing all your friends, those who show you any kindness in this life, that alone is enough to make one not want to live any longer. No one here has had that happen, but we can imagine it...
There is a Twilight Zone episode where the man loses his identity, so his wife, boss and friends, absolutely everyone he knows does not recognize him, to them he is a complete stranger...imagine that happening to any of us and that is what journeying infinity alone would be like. Who'd want that? Always we need at least a friend, as my avatar shows. Its from Midnight Cowboy, a movie where the end scene ushers in that mood of loneliness and thus highlights just how important friends are, whether they are family members, people we know, or warriors we know, but I say especially journey with warriors, because without them we cannot express our seeing as we do.
What you are describing is a dependency on "others", as well as the assumption that we continue AFTER death the same as we are prior to death.  There is nothing to suggest we will want or need "company".  Personally, I like to hope those I love will be with me in some "afterlife", but I have no evidence that anyone was with me BEFORE I was born, so there is nothing to suggest others will be with me after I die.  Occam's razor.
Just an observation.

[Nu Lang]

Its not an assumption about how we continue, always there will be an "other". Friend, foe, or stranger...an 'other'.



If not this then the alternate options are... oblivion. Or empty space...yikes...an infinity of floating in a black void...who wants that? Or an eternity with just inanimate objects? Again, no thanks. I know those options are not true becasue it would be preposterous, and to argue for them to be true would be absurd anyway.



We are all dependent on others. You may say you're not, but you in fact do not live a life without others to even know what that's like, and I say, who'd want to do it anyway...have no one at all? We need others. Your logic is tripping you up. Your words do not reflect the truth about life.



I see what has happened with your perception. You are thinking you need to point out to me that there is a state of detachment so as not to need others. Never is there goign to be a case where you/me/anyone will not need others. Never. You need others right now in your life. For example, if no one at this forum was friendly towards you, if all those who posted here responded hostile towards you, you would not stay here. You would see no point in being in such an environment where you were not needed. We need and we need to be needed.



Buddhism, as its been dispersed to the mainstream, is often used as an example of detachment, and from this many conclude that it all comes from within, the happiness etc is from the Buddha realm within. But what people often don't see is, its also the outward that reflects the inward and gives the inward meaning. So its not just within, its without too. Without is where we find the companion(s). This is God without and reflects the God within, both are needed. If you don't like the word God then Spirit. Words (descriptions) are not so important to me as you seeing my intent.



Your inside is out, and your outside is in

Your outside is in, and your inside is out

So come on, ha, come on, ha, come on is such a joy



-Beatles

[Guest]

For clarification...  Loneliness, or being without company does not equate to the alone-ness I speak of.   One can feel quite alone in a room full of friends.
Again, sadly, this 'feeling' is not something i have found a good way to describe.  Probably much has been written about the alone-ness of this path.  I'll look for it when I have time.

[alien]

Nu Lang wrote:
Its not an assumption about how we continue, always there will be an "other". Friend, foe, or stranger...an 'other'.
My only point here is that everything you are saying IS an assumption.  If not, plese provide direct personal examples of how you KNOW that what you are saying is Truth and not just belief.  I'm not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, despite what you may think.  I am merely observing that you make a LOT of blanket statements with absolutely NOTHING to support them other than your conviction.  Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make it true.
If not this then the alternate options are... oblivion. Or empty space...yikes...an infinity of floating in a black void...who wants that? Or an eternity with just inanimate objects? Again, no thanks. I know those options are not true becasue it would be preposterous, and to argue for them to be true would be absurd anyway.
You seem to see things in relation to humanform ideas here - meaning that you cannot conceive of something OTHER than a void, or an extension of our humanform existence.  Third attention is "unknowable" from our human perspective, so this kind of speculation really only builds expectations which MIGHT get in the way of what actually IS.  What actually IS?  There's no way to say - which is why the warrior strives to be without expectations and without dependencies.
We are all dependent on others. You may say you're not, but you in fact do not live a life without others to even know what that's like, and I say, who'd want to do it anyway...have no one at all? We need others. Your logic is tripping you up. Your words do not reflect the truth about life.
Your words do not reflect the truth about life either - and that's my point.  You keep making these absurd blanket statements and then "fighting" for them without ANY sense of reason.  All I'm asking is that you stop TALKING for a moment and THINK about some of your comments BEFORE putting them forth as AbsoluteTruth (which they simply are not).  I suspect you need-to-believe what I'm saying is not true, because only then can you go on believing what you believe instead of simply LOOKING at what-is.
I see what has happened with your perception.
Actually, you don't see that at all.  Another assumption.
You are thinking you need to point out to me that there is a state of detachment so as not to need others.
That's not what I said.  I said that your current position demonstrates a dependency on others, when this is a solitary path.  I have never said we do not "need" others - although I can allow for that possibility, just as I can allow for the possibility that eternity just MIGHT be something I cannot conceive at all from this current level of humanform thinking.  I am not compelled to project my beliefs onto eternity and am the first to say I could be wrong.  My question is if you have even allowed for that possibility within yourself.  Could you be wrong?  Is it possible that your adamant insistence on your "truth" is nothing more than a way to attempt to create a consensus with "others"?  And, if so, what will  happen to that consensus when you die alone (as all beings do)?
Never is there goign to be a case where you/me/anyone will not need others. Never. You need others right now in your life. For example, if no one at this forum was friendly towards you, if all those who posted here responded hostile towards you, you would not stay here. You would see no point in being in such an environment where you were not needed. We need and we need to be needed.
LOL.  Actually, most people really DON'T like me - and I'm quite okay with that.    Reason being... I've had to accept that being WHO I-Am is far more important than being liked.  I once had to terminate a relationship with my best friend because she wanted me to validate her weaknesses and essentially tell her it was okay and even good for her to be the least she can be instead of striving to be the most she could be.  That's what a "good friend" might do - hand out lots of sympathy and "oh-poor-baby's -  but it's not what a warrior does.  Reason being:  the moment I become untrue to myself, I am nothing but one more Agent Smith towing the party line and guarding the status quo.
With that said, I TRY to be reasonable with people, I even try to be "nice" on occasion... but normally I reserve that "niceness" for ordinary men & women living & breathing within the consensual reality.  With other warriors, I make every attempt to be brutally honest.  If nobody likes me as a result, I can live with that. 

Buddhism, as its been dispersed to the mainstream, is often used as an example of detachment, and from this many conclude that it all comes from within, the happiness etc is from the Buddha realm within. But what people often don't see is, its also the outward that reflects the inward and gives the inward meaning. So its not just within, its without too. Without is where we find the companion(s). This is God without and reflects the God within, both are needed. If you don't like the word God then Spirit. Words (descriptions) are not so important to me as you seeing my intent.

I do see your Intent, which is really the only reason I have invested time and energy into this conversation.    The only problem I'm seeing is that a lot of what I'm reading seems to be an attempt to validate your beliefs to yourself - and the reality is that some of what you believe MAY not be accurate (just as ANY beliefs may not be accurate, my own readily included!).  The reason I appear to be picking on you is because you either are or soon will be at a crossroad with your journey, where your foundation will be sorely tested.  If your "beliefs" turn out to be nothing but "faith" (another word for belief), the foundation may crumble - and I can tell you from experience that that ain't good.  So all I'm saying - bottom line - is to simply stop and ask yourself WHY you believe certain things.  When you really get real with yourself in that regard, you usually discover that our beliefs are based on what we've read, what we've been told, or what we've CONCLUDED - but seldom on  direct personal experience (which is the ONLY criteria for KNOWLEDGE).
I could just give up and be "nice", but would that really be any value to you?

[Nu Lang]

Alien, you sound like Sedna, lol.



Also, come off your pedestal, you are not my teacher.

[Nu Lang]

Enchantra, I already know that aloneness you speak of. That's why I told you what my name meant. Also I made a post in Ra King Roll, about the movie Midnight Cowboy, its all about that aloneness we as warriors endure, and also shows that we have companions who will see eye to eye with us. As sorcerers, only other sorcerers can be such companions and see eye to eye with us. That helps to alleviate this aloneness, even though its good to have that aloneness which will never go away. A paradox of course.



The cowboy is the perceiver of nagual awareness, the horse is the ride of power and the midnight sky is Infinity. Midnight Cowboy. It even comes with a lonely theme song of same name.

[Lunoor]

For NuLang~





Someone who has learned

How to manage life in loneliness:

Would there were one more!

He could winter here on this mountain

With his hut right next to mine.





~Saigyo



and some more:



http://ladynyo.wordpress....oon-more-saigyos-poetry/

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:Enchantra, I already know that aloneness you speak of. .
Oh, okay.  That wasn't clear to me from your posts. 
Nu Lang wrote:
To answer about solitary journey...ask yourself...when have you ever been truly alone?
~~
To be alone in the physical sense, none of us have really been exposed
to this ....again that's excruciating to even endure, and no one has even come close
to knowing what that experience would be like because always there have
been people in our lives.
~~
Only in our individual perception do we experience
loneliness, outside us there are always 'beings' traveling with us, both
friends and foes and strangers. I say its good to have our friends with
us. Why would one not seek this?

[Nu Lang]

Enchantra, I think what you don't know... becasue this goes back to pages previous, is this topic got started because Alien say we don't need to form sorcery parties and can journey infinity alone, and so when I speak of physical aloneness never being the case, I was saying to Alien we are never truly alone and thus would not want to endure infinity alone.



As for aloneness, I accounted for that too in my previous posts...long ago. I said its in perception that is the solitary journey. Paradoxes. And the most important issue here is we don't journey infinity alone and if one wants to actually do that, I say they have not considered it truly, for always we have and need companions.



~Nu Lang, the Lone She-wolf who understands loneliness and knows friendship.

[Nu Lang]

To hopefully put a rest to all this, I will just say that Alien, even if she chooses to not join any warrior party, hopes to meet friendly faces on the other side. All my posts here have been about this. The phrase "we journey alone" is just not accurate. No one has ever been alone, if all people and creatures disappeared, you would not want to live here. This means we seek others. Others seek us, and more then this...a connection a 'same seeing' it is possible and happens all the time. When warriors see the same, its a powerful propulsion into new realms of perception. They are ignition devices for each other.

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:As for aloneness, I accounted for that too in my previous posts...long
ago. I said its in perception that is the solitary journey.



Okay, well to me, everything is perception, so it seemed contradictory.

[Guest]

Nu Lang wrote:To hopefully put a rest to all this, I will just say that Alien, even if she chooses to not join any warrior party, hopes to meet friendly faces on the other side. All my posts here have been about this. The phrase "we journey alone" is just not accurate. No one has ever been alone,
Sorry, but I do not agree.

[Nu Lang]

Just know that even though you perceive alone and I perceive alone...when our seeing meets...there we are together...so not alone. The more we both perceive the nagual, the more we will meet



People also meet in the FI mind, but we don't want that kind of agreement/meeting/consensus.

[Nu Lang]

For Lunoor, that's a nice poem you posted about making the warrior's sacrifice and then joining alongside other warriors who did the same!

[alien]

Nu Lang wrote:
Alien, you sound like Sedna, lol.
Also, come off your pedestal, you are not my teacher.
I have not presumed to be your teacher, nor would I choose to be.  Can't teach anything to someone who already knows everything.
And if you want to talk about pedastals, I suggest you take a long look at your own... if you can stop pontificating long enough, that is.

[alien]

Nu Lang wrote:
To hopefully put a rest to all this, I will just say that Alien, even if she chooses to not join any warrior party, hopes to meet friendly faces on the other side. All my posts here have been about this. The phrase "we journey alone" is just not accurate. No one has ever been alone, if all people and creatures disappeared, you would not want to live here. This means we seek others. Others seek us, and more then this...a connection a 'same seeing' it is possible and happens all the time. When warriors see the same, its a powerful propulsion into new realms of perception. They are ignition devices for each other.Why do you automatically assume there IS an "other side"?  You tell me not to be your teacher, yet you seem compelled to comment on EVERY thing that is written on the forum, as if you are the end-authority, quite often throwing in your personal belief systems which have zilch to do with reality.  Maybe that's okay with most, but when you presume to speak FOR me, I will have something to say about it.  *gotta laugh*  I do not hope to meet friendly faces on the other side, because I wholly acknowledge that there is no "other side."  I say this because I will not be coerced into sharing your dualistic thinking which attempts to place black-and-white rules onto things which we simply cannot understand while still in physical manifestation. 
You are speaking for YOU, attempting to manipulate a consensus by saying "We" seek others and "we" would not want to live here, when the reality is that you are speaking solely for yourself... a universe of one... a solitary being who travels alone regardless of your attempt to convince yourself otherwise.
Now if you want to play passive-aggressive and say I sound like Sedna, that's your business and I don't take offense.  If that's the only way you can deal with what I'm saying - dismiss it with an attempt at being insulting - then that tells me the true nature of your intent... which seems to be to go on believing what you WANT to believe without ever stopping to question WHY you believe it.
Is that really so hard?  Or are you so heavily invested in your beliefs that they cannot stand up to actual scrutiny?