08-15-2008, 12:00 AM
Bob May wrote:
"Mystics outside the nagual tradition don't see the same things. The development of the second attention in nagual terms is unique."
"The knowledge of the AP is only known, as far as I know, by two or three traditions: Nagual seers, peruvian shamans (I think) and the indian kaula
tantrics (the last two don't publicly discuss it)."
As far as seeing the same things, other than C. W. Leadbeater I don't think I've read about the filaments of light but have of the egg. But I have
seen it a few times. C.W. Leadbeater considered himself a "clairvoyant", but he was around writing in the late 1800's and early 1900's. It
could just be the terminology of the times.
The AP is unique and if I'm reading you right these systems would all fall into "natural magic" realm.
I have thought about this (the fibers) and can only come to the conclusion that it is a very specific path or AP position that results from a very specific
system and that in other systems of knowledge it is kept secret. As a "key I will not give you."
This type of "key" can be withheld from a student so that a teacher can judge whether a student has had a genuine experience or is just repeating
what he heard or read somewhere. When I related the experience in which I saw the fibers to my teacher, he was not suprized at all but spoke about the
experience itself.
He was also very aware of withholding key elements for this reason.
On the other hand, the rest of the definition of "seeing" which is to know something or some persons thoughts and intent directly with no need to
interpret IS taught in other systems. I have experienced this myself and I think of it as seeing the soul of the person.
Even seeing aura requires interpretation. Not so with seeing the soul directly. There are levels of this also. I have experience it on two levels and in
either case the person does not appear human.
It is no less "seeing" than Don Juan's description in my opinion. Just different.
As far as moving the AP, (if it exists and I really have no reason to disbelieve it) the same thing can be accomplished by moving the consciousness in
meditation and probably is.
Why would a person care or even pay attention to this if they were using the method taught to them and it worked?
And maybe the AP IS the consciousness.
The AP determines the type and level of consciousness. What I meant is that other paths know how to work consciousness, but don't know of the
"power ring", the positions and the effects in consciousness and perception. Very high yogis can move the AP of a disciple to the point of
God-union... temporarily. But they do it by intent, not by moving the AP.
They say, for instance "The kundalini rises and you start to see this and that". The kundalini or personal power moves the AP towards God union,
passing through several levels of astral and causal consciousness, but rarely to another positions. Other traditions work the AP naturally... the naguals work
it deliberately. It's their blessing and curse, because they change to so many positions of the AP that they fail to take the AP higher... except the
kaulas.
Aura seeing, entities of the astral and causal realm is fairly common in many traditions... but the perception of flyers and inorganics is not. Other
traditions tend to conceptualize their seeings and can't really see objectively... they see flyers as demons and inorganics as "underground"
people.
"Mystics outside the nagual tradition don't see the same things. The development of the second attention in nagual terms is unique."
"The knowledge of the AP is only known, as far as I know, by two or three traditions: Nagual seers, peruvian shamans (I think) and the indian kaula
tantrics (the last two don't publicly discuss it)."
As far as seeing the same things, other than C. W. Leadbeater I don't think I've read about the filaments of light but have of the egg. But I have
seen it a few times. C.W. Leadbeater considered himself a "clairvoyant", but he was around writing in the late 1800's and early 1900's. It
could just be the terminology of the times.
The AP is unique and if I'm reading you right these systems would all fall into "natural magic" realm.
I have thought about this (the fibers) and can only come to the conclusion that it is a very specific path or AP position that results from a very specific
system and that in other systems of knowledge it is kept secret. As a "key I will not give you."
This type of "key" can be withheld from a student so that a teacher can judge whether a student has had a genuine experience or is just repeating
what he heard or read somewhere. When I related the experience in which I saw the fibers to my teacher, he was not suprized at all but spoke about the
experience itself.
He was also very aware of withholding key elements for this reason.
On the other hand, the rest of the definition of "seeing" which is to know something or some persons thoughts and intent directly with no need to
interpret IS taught in other systems. I have experienced this myself and I think of it as seeing the soul of the person.
Even seeing aura requires interpretation. Not so with seeing the soul directly. There are levels of this also. I have experience it on two levels and in
either case the person does not appear human.
It is no less "seeing" than Don Juan's description in my opinion. Just different.
As far as moving the AP, (if it exists and I really have no reason to disbelieve it) the same thing can be accomplished by moving the consciousness in
meditation and probably is.
Why would a person care or even pay attention to this if they were using the method taught to them and it worked?
And maybe the AP IS the consciousness.
The AP determines the type and level of consciousness. What I meant is that other paths know how to work consciousness, but don't know of the
"power ring", the positions and the effects in consciousness and perception. Very high yogis can move the AP of a disciple to the point of
God-union... temporarily. But they do it by intent, not by moving the AP.
They say, for instance "The kundalini rises and you start to see this and that". The kundalini or personal power moves the AP towards God union,
passing through several levels of astral and causal consciousness, but rarely to another positions. Other traditions work the AP naturally... the naguals work
it deliberately. It's their blessing and curse, because they change to so many positions of the AP that they fail to take the AP higher... except the
kaulas.
Aura seeing, entities of the astral and causal realm is fairly common in many traditions... but the perception of flyers and inorganics is not. Other
traditions tend to conceptualize their seeings and can't really see objectively... they see flyers as demons and inorganics as "underground"
people.