01-26-2011, 12:00 AM
But we need not go so far as divine mystery. The unknowable is more immediate than that and much “closer” to home and everyone without exception sees it." Lex
Divine Mystery is as close as the air we breathe. As Thomas was told in the Gospel of Thomas, "The Kingdom of heaven is all around us yet men do not see it. Bob May
Divine mysteries are as close if not closer than the air we breath. But as you said, or as Thomas said, “The Kingdom of heaven is all around us yet men do not see it.” But the “distance” I implied, (by my use of the word “closer”) is the level of spiritual experience and interpretation in light of that experience. Without spiritual awakening of some kind this Kingdom of Heaven is not seen. The term Kingdom of Heaven is itself a level of interpretation.
To enter into the Mysteries is to have had some first hand knowledge or experience that Mankind as a whole has not. Bob May
It is precisely this kind of talk that leads “spiritual” people to think they are superior to the “unenlightened”. To heap up mystical, metaphysical knowledge upon what already appears obscured and interpret experience in light of such knowledge has only minor benefit and lots of pitfalls.
What I speak of, every object “out there” is emptiness. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. So everyone is seeing this, but there is this insistence of interpreting what is seen in ways that try to confirm (or even deny) the individual and inherent existence of these objects, in an attempt to establish them as not emptiness! (Craving) Why do we do this? That is not an idle question! Because of ignorance we insist that form is not emptiness. We insist that the objects we see are “real” in a particular way. Then we get “spiritual” about it and then insist that the opposite of form is formless and it is the formless that is emptiness, not form. But really all we have to do is to look at this world of form more closely and be more attentive. Form is emptiness. So what is emptiness? FORM. lol. If we can get a handle on this we will be in a better position to corroborate what Don Juan is talking about. Understanding the craving will help us see it as it happens. If we can simply refrain from exaggeration and catch ourselves as we go to talk about something we actually do not know (and then call it faith for example). If we can resist this spiritual embellishment and just stick to this world of objects we would have a better chance of cutting through the levels of interpretation and see directly, with primordial starkness.
Now in Don Juan’s language he said, “Something out there is effecting our senses. This is the part that’s real. The unreal part is what our senses tell us is there.” FFW
He was referring to the Eagle and the eagle’s emanations. But those terms will do more to confuse us than illuminate us. You see this is what we really have to get a hold of when reading DJ’s words when quoted in a book by CC. I remember when I first read about all this in CC’s works. I was diligently trying to piece together DJs world view, as was CC! All this business of energetic cocoons filled with filaments of energy and the universe at large also filled with the same filaments of energy and an assemblage point arranging universes of awareness depending on its position aligning elements within with whats out there etc. This is all very visual. And it does not help when on one page CC writes,
“Are the emanations like beams of light?” I asked.
“No. Not at all. That would be too simple. They are something indescribable. And yet, my personal comment would be to say that they are like filaments of light.” FFW
Which leaves us wondering what would filaments of light look like. They might not actually BE filaments of light but they look like them. So let me see these “things” that look like filaments of light and I will figure it out from there, right?
Then CC writes,
“Everybody falls prey to the mistake that seeing is done with the eyes. But don’t be surprised that after so many years you haven’t realized yet that seeing is not a matter of the eyes. Its quite normal to make that mistake.” FFW
Yes Bob it is good to observe but we must observe very closely.
Divine Mystery is as close as the air we breathe. As Thomas was told in the Gospel of Thomas, "The Kingdom of heaven is all around us yet men do not see it. Bob May
Divine mysteries are as close if not closer than the air we breath. But as you said, or as Thomas said, “The Kingdom of heaven is all around us yet men do not see it.” But the “distance” I implied, (by my use of the word “closer”) is the level of spiritual experience and interpretation in light of that experience. Without spiritual awakening of some kind this Kingdom of Heaven is not seen. The term Kingdom of Heaven is itself a level of interpretation.
To enter into the Mysteries is to have had some first hand knowledge or experience that Mankind as a whole has not. Bob May
It is precisely this kind of talk that leads “spiritual” people to think they are superior to the “unenlightened”. To heap up mystical, metaphysical knowledge upon what already appears obscured and interpret experience in light of such knowledge has only minor benefit and lots of pitfalls.
What I speak of, every object “out there” is emptiness. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. So everyone is seeing this, but there is this insistence of interpreting what is seen in ways that try to confirm (or even deny) the individual and inherent existence of these objects, in an attempt to establish them as not emptiness! (Craving) Why do we do this? That is not an idle question! Because of ignorance we insist that form is not emptiness. We insist that the objects we see are “real” in a particular way. Then we get “spiritual” about it and then insist that the opposite of form is formless and it is the formless that is emptiness, not form. But really all we have to do is to look at this world of form more closely and be more attentive. Form is emptiness. So what is emptiness? FORM. lol. If we can get a handle on this we will be in a better position to corroborate what Don Juan is talking about. Understanding the craving will help us see it as it happens. If we can simply refrain from exaggeration and catch ourselves as we go to talk about something we actually do not know (and then call it faith for example). If we can resist this spiritual embellishment and just stick to this world of objects we would have a better chance of cutting through the levels of interpretation and see directly, with primordial starkness.
Now in Don Juan’s language he said, “Something out there is effecting our senses. This is the part that’s real. The unreal part is what our senses tell us is there.” FFW
He was referring to the Eagle and the eagle’s emanations. But those terms will do more to confuse us than illuminate us. You see this is what we really have to get a hold of when reading DJ’s words when quoted in a book by CC. I remember when I first read about all this in CC’s works. I was diligently trying to piece together DJs world view, as was CC! All this business of energetic cocoons filled with filaments of energy and the universe at large also filled with the same filaments of energy and an assemblage point arranging universes of awareness depending on its position aligning elements within with whats out there etc. This is all very visual. And it does not help when on one page CC writes,
“Are the emanations like beams of light?” I asked.
“No. Not at all. That would be too simple. They are something indescribable. And yet, my personal comment would be to say that they are like filaments of light.” FFW
Which leaves us wondering what would filaments of light look like. They might not actually BE filaments of light but they look like them. So let me see these “things” that look like filaments of light and I will figure it out from there, right?
Then CC writes,
“Everybody falls prey to the mistake that seeing is done with the eyes. But don’t be surprised that after so many years you haven’t realized yet that seeing is not a matter of the eyes. Its quite normal to make that mistake.” FFW
Yes Bob it is good to observe but we must observe very closely.