01-29-2011, 12:00 AM
lex icon wrote:
“The first truth, (about awareness) he said, was that our familiarity with the world we perceive compels us to believe that we are surrounded by objects, existing by themselves and as themselves, just as we perceive them, whereas, in fact, there is no world of objects, but a universe of eagles emanations.” FFW
""There is a lot in this small paragraph. Now I am not asking anyone to believe what Don Juan is saying here, I do not care two hoots whether you believe it or not. What I do care about is that it is understood. That the man’s point of view has been appreciated. Now you might believe you are surrounded by this world of individual objects and nothing can change what appears so self evident. Well fine but is it possible to just for the sake of dialogue to suspend that determination while we explore what DJ is talking about? I mean what did the man experience that led him to make such a radical statement.""
He experienced the emanations. What he is saying here is that instead of a world of objects there is a world of emanations. That IS the experience. When the emanations are seen/experienced the world of matter pales to insignificance. It is not real. Gopi Krishna said something similar in Kundalini, the Evolutionary Energy in Man. He said that he "saw the earth as a grain of sand on an ocean of energy."
""What is unfortunate, in my opinion, in DJ’s words above, is when he tags on that last bit, “but a universe of eagles emanations.” You see we need more space to contemplate the no objects before jumping to what I believe is a level of metaphysical interpretation, “eagles emanations”.""
There you go getting spooky again. lol. Eagle's Emanations are just a word he used to describe something he actually saw/experienced. You are discussing a reality and you want to make it "metaphysical." And therefore you think it needs to be interpreted.
You are wanting to understand this from the bottom up. I have learned that it doesn't work that way. You have an experience first. Then you recognise that that particular experience was being described.
Don Juan's great bands of emanations, Jacob's ladder, Joseph's coat of many colors all describe the same experience.
I had that experience. But it was not until I did that I recognised the various descriptions. All of the elements of those descriptions fit exactly.
""DJ makes the comment above that when we are “compelled” to believe we are surrounded by objects, these objects appear to exist “by themselves and as themselves”. Now that is a very precise statement. If we can unravel this one statement the internal dialogue will cease and its world will collapse.""
Which they do not of course. They are products of the real. Which could not exist without or apart from the real. We are at the lowest rung of that ladder. This world of matter with all of it's objects is the shadow pointing back toward the real.
Wow an energetic wave just passed and staggered me for a moment and I quite literally had to go evacuate my bowels lol. An omen perhaps?
The world is agreeing with you.
“The first truth, (about awareness) he said, was that our familiarity with the world we perceive compels us to believe that we are surrounded by objects, existing by themselves and as themselves, just as we perceive them, whereas, in fact, there is no world of objects, but a universe of eagles emanations.” FFW
""There is a lot in this small paragraph. Now I am not asking anyone to believe what Don Juan is saying here, I do not care two hoots whether you believe it or not. What I do care about is that it is understood. That the man’s point of view has been appreciated. Now you might believe you are surrounded by this world of individual objects and nothing can change what appears so self evident. Well fine but is it possible to just for the sake of dialogue to suspend that determination while we explore what DJ is talking about? I mean what did the man experience that led him to make such a radical statement.""
He experienced the emanations. What he is saying here is that instead of a world of objects there is a world of emanations. That IS the experience. When the emanations are seen/experienced the world of matter pales to insignificance. It is not real. Gopi Krishna said something similar in Kundalini, the Evolutionary Energy in Man. He said that he "saw the earth as a grain of sand on an ocean of energy."
""What is unfortunate, in my opinion, in DJ’s words above, is when he tags on that last bit, “but a universe of eagles emanations.” You see we need more space to contemplate the no objects before jumping to what I believe is a level of metaphysical interpretation, “eagles emanations”.""
There you go getting spooky again. lol. Eagle's Emanations are just a word he used to describe something he actually saw/experienced. You are discussing a reality and you want to make it "metaphysical." And therefore you think it needs to be interpreted.
You are wanting to understand this from the bottom up. I have learned that it doesn't work that way. You have an experience first. Then you recognise that that particular experience was being described.
Don Juan's great bands of emanations, Jacob's ladder, Joseph's coat of many colors all describe the same experience.
I had that experience. But it was not until I did that I recognised the various descriptions. All of the elements of those descriptions fit exactly.
""DJ makes the comment above that when we are “compelled” to believe we are surrounded by objects, these objects appear to exist “by themselves and as themselves”. Now that is a very precise statement. If we can unravel this one statement the internal dialogue will cease and its world will collapse.""
Which they do not of course. They are products of the real. Which could not exist without or apart from the real. We are at the lowest rung of that ladder. This world of matter with all of it's objects is the shadow pointing back toward the real.
Wow an energetic wave just passed and staggered me for a moment and I quite literally had to go evacuate my bowels lol. An omen perhaps?
The world is agreeing with you.