02-04-2011, 12:01 AM
I can see your desire to have a discussion along one theme but when people offer a different flavor, it’s easy to interpret that as “Well, I thought we were eating the same meal, but looks as though they’re at another dinner party!” Jessicar
LMAO Thanks Jessicar very funny. I needed that
We have the challenge and opportunity to face the unknown daily!!!
The unknowable is anything we’ve NOT experienced!!!
Death for example. By the time we get to death, it’s no longer the unknowable; it’s now become the unknown as we move into the realm of experience, and then immediately it becomes the known. That movement from unknowable, to unknown, to known, happens in a millisecond---yet, our collective sorceric knowledge says it’s related to the understanding that we’re grappling to get to, as though it’s always just out of our reach to attain. We’ve put the attainment of the unknowable out of our grasp and we’ve done that because the old seers told us it’s impossible to grasp.
Our freedom as seers is to face and to respond to what presents itself before us daily; it’s not in the future, yet it is in the respect that it’s “in front” of us—a minute fraction of placement away from our being, yet within visual sight and we enter into it each and every moment that we face our lives without lens cloudy with memory, or trauma, or thought, or mind---anything that clouds our view of what lies in front of our very noses! Jessicar
In this thread what I have set about doing is that where ever possible I have used DJ’s standards concerning this. I have tried to keep my perspective to a minimum. It is not so much that this is what I am saying about this, but Don Juan. I also know that often times his view is at odds with seers in this forum yet it seems to have gone unnoticed a lot of the time. But this happens regularly in any tradition when the words we are reading are removed from the living example. As I have mentioned before Christianity does it all the time. Castaneda had the good fortune for many conversations with DJ. His own view pitted against DJ’s. So many today who read Castaneda never really get to one view pitted against another, which was very definitely DJ’s style in CC’s works.
So If you don’t mind I would like to use what you said as an example here.
We have the challenge and opportunity to face the unknown daily!!!
The unknowable is anything we’ve NOT experienced!!!
Death for example. By the time we get to death, it’s no longer the unknowable; it’s now become the unknown as we move into the realm of experience, and then immediately it becomes the known. That movement from unknowable, to unknown, to known, happens in a millisecond- Jessicar.
This view you have presented here Jessicar is at odds with DJ’s view. You say the unknowable is anything we have not experienced but so is the unknown. What DJ is saying is that the unknowable can never become the known in the way the unknown does. You have blurred the two where Don Juan seeks to separate the two. This also happens in a millisecond.
“He said that not to seek order (of truths about awareness) was one of the great mistakes that the ancient seers made. A deadly consequence of that mistake was their assumption that the unknown and the unknowable are the same thing. It was up to the new seers to correct that error. They set up boundaries and defined the unknown as something veiled from man, shrouded perhaps by a terrifying concept, but which, nonetheless, is within man’s reach. The unknown becomes the known at any given time. The unknowable of the other hand, is the indescribable, the unthinkable, the unrealizable. It is something that will never be known to us, and yet, it is there, dazzling and at the same time horrifying in its vastness.” FFW
Now it just occurred to me that perhaps not everyone has read Fire From Within and this has been their first exposure to DJ’s radical ideas concerning objects and the unknowable. If so I recommend people read it.
LMAO Thanks Jessicar very funny. I needed that
We have the challenge and opportunity to face the unknown daily!!!
The unknowable is anything we’ve NOT experienced!!!
Death for example. By the time we get to death, it’s no longer the unknowable; it’s now become the unknown as we move into the realm of experience, and then immediately it becomes the known. That movement from unknowable, to unknown, to known, happens in a millisecond---yet, our collective sorceric knowledge says it’s related to the understanding that we’re grappling to get to, as though it’s always just out of our reach to attain. We’ve put the attainment of the unknowable out of our grasp and we’ve done that because the old seers told us it’s impossible to grasp.
Our freedom as seers is to face and to respond to what presents itself before us daily; it’s not in the future, yet it is in the respect that it’s “in front” of us—a minute fraction of placement away from our being, yet within visual sight and we enter into it each and every moment that we face our lives without lens cloudy with memory, or trauma, or thought, or mind---anything that clouds our view of what lies in front of our very noses! Jessicar
In this thread what I have set about doing is that where ever possible I have used DJ’s standards concerning this. I have tried to keep my perspective to a minimum. It is not so much that this is what I am saying about this, but Don Juan. I also know that often times his view is at odds with seers in this forum yet it seems to have gone unnoticed a lot of the time. But this happens regularly in any tradition when the words we are reading are removed from the living example. As I have mentioned before Christianity does it all the time. Castaneda had the good fortune for many conversations with DJ. His own view pitted against DJ’s. So many today who read Castaneda never really get to one view pitted against another, which was very definitely DJ’s style in CC’s works.
So If you don’t mind I would like to use what you said as an example here.
We have the challenge and opportunity to face the unknown daily!!!
The unknowable is anything we’ve NOT experienced!!!
Death for example. By the time we get to death, it’s no longer the unknowable; it’s now become the unknown as we move into the realm of experience, and then immediately it becomes the known. That movement from unknowable, to unknown, to known, happens in a millisecond- Jessicar.
This view you have presented here Jessicar is at odds with DJ’s view. You say the unknowable is anything we have not experienced but so is the unknown. What DJ is saying is that the unknowable can never become the known in the way the unknown does. You have blurred the two where Don Juan seeks to separate the two. This also happens in a millisecond.
“He said that not to seek order (of truths about awareness) was one of the great mistakes that the ancient seers made. A deadly consequence of that mistake was their assumption that the unknown and the unknowable are the same thing. It was up to the new seers to correct that error. They set up boundaries and defined the unknown as something veiled from man, shrouded perhaps by a terrifying concept, but which, nonetheless, is within man’s reach. The unknown becomes the known at any given time. The unknowable of the other hand, is the indescribable, the unthinkable, the unrealizable. It is something that will never be known to us, and yet, it is there, dazzling and at the same time horrifying in its vastness.” FFW
Now it just occurred to me that perhaps not everyone has read Fire From Within and this has been their first exposure to DJ’s radical ideas concerning objects and the unknowable. If so I recommend people read it.