02-17-2011, 12:01 AM
Nu Lang wrote:
"And this is where many, not all, CC devotees find themselves. Some do as you did, and thank CC for a good ride and move on, some start yearning to meet a DJ type character that can truly initiate them into sorcery and get frustrated that the teacher is not appearing or in desperation attach themselves to anyone that seems credible in this regard. Some don’t get anywhere and get resentful and feel the need to get dismissive of things they really know nothing about. Some have major breakthroughs. etc." Lex
On forum discussions about CC, people often tiptoe around the actually sorcery that transpired. Why is that? Is it becasue they believe it didn't happen...that CC either exaggerated or was drug induced.
Or is it they believe it did happen to CC, but fear its not possibly going to ever happen to them, so best look for another 'path' not dependent on actually manifesting sorcery as described in the books. Like what you described Lex, a desperation at not finding a teacher and get discouraged to try.
Or yet another reason. ie. DJ didn't exist. It all took place in dreaming...etc
More than anything, the teachings of Castaneda introduce to the reader...Sorcery. I've experienced it so no longer need to be convinced. Now I see its about learning it myself. I can refer to his books now and then, they are useful, but the rest is to be known, by me, directly on my journey with fellow sorcerers/dreamers.
Some would say...that's not freedom though. I say why not? Why can't you have both sorcery and freedom together? Freedom allows for anything under the sun. Even no sun.
Hi Lex and Nu Lang,
I read Nu Lang's post before going to bed last night.
I just woke up with some thoughts about this old vs new seer thing and what Nu Lang wrote about freedom. It also relates to what Scout 1 posted about intent in the thread How To Become a New Seer.
It really all adds up to what Don Juan called predilection. A path with heart. Or maybe what some refer to as a "calling."
In Don Juan's teachings there were always these opposing ideas tonal, nagual, ..inside and outside the bubble of awareness,...known and unknown,..first and second attention etc.,
Sorcerer.... Man of Knowledge
Old seer.... New seer
Dreaming... Seeing
In the bible there are parallels in the "Gifts of the Spirit". There are many but I will list a few to illustrate my point.
Miracles, Healing,... Wisdom, Understanding, Visions, Faith, Discerning of spirits, Prophecy.
All of the gifts,.... Faith, Hope, Charity
In the study of the Tree of Life (the Qabalah) there are also parallels in how the person makes use of the Tree.
Magician,.... Mystic
Invoking angels, archangels Rising on the planes, Becoming "one with" a Sephirah,
and/or demons and godnames, etc. Rising on the Middle Pillar.
for the purpose of changing something. Becoming "one with" God.
Become "one with" a Sephirah in order to change
something in matter.
The lines I have drawn are not hard and fast by any means, These things bleed one into another.
But we are drawn to the left side or the right side by our own predilections,..our path with heart.
From what I see the left side has more to do with changing things and phenomena. The things changed are impermanent. We can change our current situation whether that be our dreams or making a protection against a psychic assault, etc. Or save a life by healing. But that dream will fade our psychic assault is temporary and so is this body we are in,..we will all die, eventually. So, even a miracle healing is temporary.
The thing changed on the left side are temporary in that they are the physical and astral planes that are changed.
From what I see on the right side list has more to do with "knowing and awareness." These are, for the most part, permanent changes in our consciousness. At least that is the goal. That goal is "open ended." In other words there is no end to the journey it encompasses.
Either side can be approached in either a selfless or selfish manner. But on the right side you will reach a point where you will either change your motivation or be destroyed if that motivation is wrong. Or you will go no further.
On the left side the goal seems to be to sneak past the Eagle and gain a few years to your life.
The right ide is open ended, as I said.
Many of us were drawn to the Don Juan stories because of the mystery and phenomena. But it seemed clear from early on that Don Juan expected Carlos to do better than getting caught up in the sorcerer's world.
But then, that is the freedom we have. We do what we want to do. We seek what our heart tells us to.
"And this is where many, not all, CC devotees find themselves. Some do as you did, and thank CC for a good ride and move on, some start yearning to meet a DJ type character that can truly initiate them into sorcery and get frustrated that the teacher is not appearing or in desperation attach themselves to anyone that seems credible in this regard. Some don’t get anywhere and get resentful and feel the need to get dismissive of things they really know nothing about. Some have major breakthroughs. etc." Lex
On forum discussions about CC, people often tiptoe around the actually sorcery that transpired. Why is that? Is it becasue they believe it didn't happen...that CC either exaggerated or was drug induced.
Or is it they believe it did happen to CC, but fear its not possibly going to ever happen to them, so best look for another 'path' not dependent on actually manifesting sorcery as described in the books. Like what you described Lex, a desperation at not finding a teacher and get discouraged to try.
Or yet another reason. ie. DJ didn't exist. It all took place in dreaming...etc
More than anything, the teachings of Castaneda introduce to the reader...Sorcery. I've experienced it so no longer need to be convinced. Now I see its about learning it myself. I can refer to his books now and then, they are useful, but the rest is to be known, by me, directly on my journey with fellow sorcerers/dreamers.
Some would say...that's not freedom though. I say why not? Why can't you have both sorcery and freedom together? Freedom allows for anything under the sun. Even no sun.
Hi Lex and Nu Lang,
I read Nu Lang's post before going to bed last night.
I just woke up with some thoughts about this old vs new seer thing and what Nu Lang wrote about freedom. It also relates to what Scout 1 posted about intent in the thread How To Become a New Seer.
It really all adds up to what Don Juan called predilection. A path with heart. Or maybe what some refer to as a "calling."
In Don Juan's teachings there were always these opposing ideas tonal, nagual, ..inside and outside the bubble of awareness,...known and unknown,..first and second attention etc.,
Sorcerer.... Man of Knowledge
Old seer.... New seer
Dreaming... Seeing
In the bible there are parallels in the "Gifts of the Spirit". There are many but I will list a few to illustrate my point.
Miracles, Healing,... Wisdom, Understanding, Visions, Faith, Discerning of spirits, Prophecy.
All of the gifts,.... Faith, Hope, Charity
In the study of the Tree of Life (the Qabalah) there are also parallels in how the person makes use of the Tree.
Magician,.... Mystic
Invoking angels, archangels Rising on the planes, Becoming "one with" a Sephirah,
and/or demons and godnames, etc. Rising on the Middle Pillar.
for the purpose of changing something. Becoming "one with" God.
Become "one with" a Sephirah in order to change
something in matter.
The lines I have drawn are not hard and fast by any means, These things bleed one into another.
But we are drawn to the left side or the right side by our own predilections,..our path with heart.
From what I see the left side has more to do with changing things and phenomena. The things changed are impermanent. We can change our current situation whether that be our dreams or making a protection against a psychic assault, etc. Or save a life by healing. But that dream will fade our psychic assault is temporary and so is this body we are in,..we will all die, eventually. So, even a miracle healing is temporary.
The thing changed on the left side are temporary in that they are the physical and astral planes that are changed.
From what I see on the right side list has more to do with "knowing and awareness." These are, for the most part, permanent changes in our consciousness. At least that is the goal. That goal is "open ended." In other words there is no end to the journey it encompasses.
Either side can be approached in either a selfless or selfish manner. But on the right side you will reach a point where you will either change your motivation or be destroyed if that motivation is wrong. Or you will go no further.
On the left side the goal seems to be to sneak past the Eagle and gain a few years to your life.
The right ide is open ended, as I said.
Many of us were drawn to the Don Juan stories because of the mystery and phenomena. But it seemed clear from early on that Don Juan expected Carlos to do better than getting caught up in the sorcerer's world.
But then, that is the freedom we have. We do what we want to do. We seek what our heart tells us to.