02-19-2011, 12:02 AM
Enchantra wrote:
Useful distinctions.... but I don't know that they are written in stone, especially if we are using these descriptions as means to find out (or prove) if we are a new seer or not. I have a feeling, that as new seers, we know who we are and can sense many others.
“They weren’t involved in concocting rational theories.”
The new seers, on the other hand, imbued with practicality, were able to see a flux of emanations and to see how man and other living beings utilize them to construct their perceivable world.
Nu Lang wrote:
""I wanted to comment about death as I had an interesting insight about it in another thread. Its known via life, only because of life is death given any shape, form, tangibility, otherwise its unknowable. IN fact, by experiencing it because of life, due to life, we still see that its intangible...because all we are apprehending of it is a reflection within life's framework, not death itself, becasue its...nothing at all.""
Knowledge,..real knowledge in the "biblical sense" of the word is "experiential knowledge." "Daath" in Hebrew and "Gnosis" in Greek. In the English language there is not that distinction.
Also, in the "biblical sense" WE are the dead in the sense that we are unaware of the higher planes of existence. So were the Old Seers. They had made a "latteral shift" of their assemblage points and experienced a becoming aware of something more than the average man's experience. What they experienced was opening their eyes to what is really going on in this world.
To lift that veil is to "stop the world." At that point a person becomes a "sorcerer." It is a necessary step but it is a first step, not the end game. It does not mean a person will continue on that path. It is an "initiation." A level of awareness that that person has reached.
The practicality of the New Seers was to organise what they had seen into an understandable whole. What that whole was is unclear to us because Carlos decided to remain a sorcerer. But there is enough in Don Juan's description of that "Whole" that we can see that a "New Seer" or "Man of Knowledge" had gone beyond both ordinary men and sorcerer's in what they had experienced.
Whether they had come to be "alive" is not clear.
What is clear is that, because of there experiences, they stood "outside of" both the normal man's realm and the sorcerer's realm. They saw where to place boundaries of both.
Unless you are outside of something you cannot know the boundaries of that thing.
As "normal" men and women we see ourselves as "alive" and everyone we meet agrees with us because they also see themselves in the same way. It is only by stepping outside of our condition can we contrast life with death.
Physical death is just losing the body. It is the awareness that continues. At the moment of death we will be separated from this physical body. That is a revalation to those who in this physical life never meditated or "dreamed." But not to those who have.
Is that all we will know? Maybe. Maybe as far as we have gotten in "this world" is where we will be at death.
At what level is our consciousnes/ awareness? What has our consciousness/ awareness experienced before we die physically? If it has not touched on the realms Don Juan referred to as Man of Knowledge or New Seer then we might very well be still living the illusions of the "Normal" human being and/or "Sorcerer after we leave this physical body.
Useful distinctions.... but I don't know that they are written in stone, especially if we are using these descriptions as means to find out (or prove) if we are a new seer or not. I have a feeling, that as new seers, we know who we are and can sense many others.
“They weren’t involved in concocting rational theories.”
The new seers, on the other hand, imbued with practicality, were able to see a flux of emanations and to see how man and other living beings utilize them to construct their perceivable world.
Nu Lang wrote:
""I wanted to comment about death as I had an interesting insight about it in another thread. Its known via life, only because of life is death given any shape, form, tangibility, otherwise its unknowable. IN fact, by experiencing it because of life, due to life, we still see that its intangible...because all we are apprehending of it is a reflection within life's framework, not death itself, becasue its...nothing at all.""
Knowledge,..real knowledge in the "biblical sense" of the word is "experiential knowledge." "Daath" in Hebrew and "Gnosis" in Greek. In the English language there is not that distinction.
Also, in the "biblical sense" WE are the dead in the sense that we are unaware of the higher planes of existence. So were the Old Seers. They had made a "latteral shift" of their assemblage points and experienced a becoming aware of something more than the average man's experience. What they experienced was opening their eyes to what is really going on in this world.
To lift that veil is to "stop the world." At that point a person becomes a "sorcerer." It is a necessary step but it is a first step, not the end game. It does not mean a person will continue on that path. It is an "initiation." A level of awareness that that person has reached.
The practicality of the New Seers was to organise what they had seen into an understandable whole. What that whole was is unclear to us because Carlos decided to remain a sorcerer. But there is enough in Don Juan's description of that "Whole" that we can see that a "New Seer" or "Man of Knowledge" had gone beyond both ordinary men and sorcerer's in what they had experienced.
Whether they had come to be "alive" is not clear.
What is clear is that, because of there experiences, they stood "outside of" both the normal man's realm and the sorcerer's realm. They saw where to place boundaries of both.
Unless you are outside of something you cannot know the boundaries of that thing.
As "normal" men and women we see ourselves as "alive" and everyone we meet agrees with us because they also see themselves in the same way. It is only by stepping outside of our condition can we contrast life with death.
Physical death is just losing the body. It is the awareness that continues. At the moment of death we will be separated from this physical body. That is a revalation to those who in this physical life never meditated or "dreamed." But not to those who have.
Is that all we will know? Maybe. Maybe as far as we have gotten in "this world" is where we will be at death.
At what level is our consciousnes/ awareness? What has our consciousness/ awareness experienced before we die physically? If it has not touched on the realms Don Juan referred to as Man of Knowledge or New Seer then we might very well be still living the illusions of the "Normal" human being and/or "Sorcerer after we leave this physical body.