02-23-2011, 12:02 AM
lex icon wrote:
Now what are the "the Mysteries" he is speaking of? He says he is giving them the power to decipher All Parables and the Mysteries and yet, all parables don't have to do with seeds and sowers etc., Bob
Very true Bob! This also contains the possibility of making new parables! I have dabbled in this myself.
Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
My point here is that there is a difference between Mysteries and Parables. But they both follow the same pattern. Meaning a second meaning behind the story woven with symbols.
Parables deal with stories either written or spoken. The symbols used to point to the Real (the story behind the story) are Words. THIS IS ALLEGORY.
The "Mysteries" have to do with "Reality." The symbols used to point to the Reality behind the obvious (also the story behind the story) are everything in the manifest universe. THIS ALSO IS ALLEGORY.
Parables are allegory.
Ok, you with me so far?
He is not teaching them the keys to all parables because he is only giving them a few definitions to the symbols in one parable. Seed = word, Field= world, Sower = Son of Man. The few symbols he gives them cannot possibly cover all of his parables let alone "all parables." So, my conclusion is that he meant something else.
Yet he says;
Mr 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
LK 8:10 Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:
To know ALL PARABLES and the MYSTERIES of the Kingdom of God (which is invisible) it is necessary to understand ALLEGORY itself. THAT IS THE KEY he is giving them.
Because that is how we come to understand the true intent ( the story behind the story) of the AUTHOR both of parables and the AUTHOR of the world we are living in.
Jesus is in the process of giving them the key and says unto you it is given.
Mark Chapter 4
9 Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”
When we read this it is as if Jesus is purposely hindering some from understanding, ...why???
He is not excluding anyone here. It is a choice to have ears or not. He knew it would be written about later and so we have all been given those same keys. They were just given this information and told it was important before we were.
12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Why does Jesus not want them to turn and be forgiven?????
I thought that too for a while but it doesn't make sense. I was reading it wrong.
Joh 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world
You are reading it wrong too just like I was. Like I said it is a personal choice whether or not to open our ears. The "lest they be forgiven..." or "lest they be converted..."
The "lest" was from their perspective.
How many people you know that will readily change their way of thinking because you suggest something completely new and foriegn to their way of thinking?
But he did give them the parables and just thinking about them excercises that part of our brains.
And later Paul really points out a lot about scriptures being allegory, also. Figures, shadows, types, all of these things are saying the same things about how scripture was written.
Few enough understand that but when you start saying that that is also how the entire universe was "written", it is a leap in thinking.
I hope I am making sense here because I believe it is a major key. I've been thinking about this for a few years but just recently the concept seems to be taking on new life and I am getting a lot more ideas about it.
Now what are the "the Mysteries" he is speaking of? He says he is giving them the power to decipher All Parables and the Mysteries and yet, all parables don't have to do with seeds and sowers etc., Bob
Very true Bob! This also contains the possibility of making new parables! I have dabbled in this myself.
Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
My point here is that there is a difference between Mysteries and Parables. But they both follow the same pattern. Meaning a second meaning behind the story woven with symbols.
Parables deal with stories either written or spoken. The symbols used to point to the Real (the story behind the story) are Words. THIS IS ALLEGORY.
The "Mysteries" have to do with "Reality." The symbols used to point to the Reality behind the obvious (also the story behind the story) are everything in the manifest universe. THIS ALSO IS ALLEGORY.
Parables are allegory.
Ok, you with me so far?
He is not teaching them the keys to all parables because he is only giving them a few definitions to the symbols in one parable. Seed = word, Field= world, Sower = Son of Man. The few symbols he gives them cannot possibly cover all of his parables let alone "all parables." So, my conclusion is that he meant something else.
Yet he says;
Mr 4:13
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
LK 8:10 Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God:
To know ALL PARABLES and the MYSTERIES of the Kingdom of God (which is invisible) it is necessary to understand ALLEGORY itself. THAT IS THE KEY he is giving them.
Because that is how we come to understand the true intent ( the story behind the story) of the AUTHOR both of parables and the AUTHOR of the world we are living in.
Jesus is in the process of giving them the key and says unto you it is given.
Mark Chapter 4
9 Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”
When we read this it is as if Jesus is purposely hindering some from understanding, ...why???
He is not excluding anyone here. It is a choice to have ears or not. He knew it would be written about later and so we have all been given those same keys. They were just given this information and told it was important before we were.
12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Why does Jesus not want them to turn and be forgiven?????
I thought that too for a while but it doesn't make sense. I was reading it wrong.
Joh 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world
You are reading it wrong too just like I was. Like I said it is a personal choice whether or not to open our ears. The "lest they be forgiven..." or "lest they be converted..."
The "lest" was from their perspective.
How many people you know that will readily change their way of thinking because you suggest something completely new and foriegn to their way of thinking?
But he did give them the parables and just thinking about them excercises that part of our brains.
And later Paul really points out a lot about scriptures being allegory, also. Figures, shadows, types, all of these things are saying the same things about how scripture was written.
Few enough understand that but when you start saying that that is also how the entire universe was "written", it is a leap in thinking.
I hope I am making sense here because I believe it is a major key. I've been thinking about this for a few years but just recently the concept seems to be taking on new life and I am getting a lot more ideas about it.