03-20-2011, 12:00 AM
Sedna wrote:
Sedna wrote:
But the ultimate 'what is a person really' question. What is it that constitutes a person (their true self in their totality) and what is it you think you are seeing?
A seer sees both - the totality AND the persona (or the "character-identity"). In most cases, the seer isn't judging anything about the person - simply observing, for whatever reason, or just because it's how *seeing* works. For example, I can see the buddha NATURE in people, but I can also see that most people make little effort to manifest that nature. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, just observations in the same way I would observe a tree bending in the wind or a wave breaking on the shore.
Are you seeing them in their totality and if you are could one ever in their totality as their true self be a tyrant as you said in your example?
The true self is never a tyrant, but the character/identity in the tonal certainly can be. Hitler may have had a heart of gold. But that is not what manifested in his actions and intent. His character/identity persona was a tyrant in the tonal, regardless of whatever else he may have been in his nagual.
Seeing a person wearing a red shirt is one thing, but seeing that a person is a saint because saints often wear red shirts is another thing. You say you watch their actions...so just saying...and asking because I want to get this clear.
When DJ saw, he saw only luminous eggs...and not saints and sinners. So again, before giving the answer you always give, consider what is it that you are seeing...their true self or your projection of meanings and judgments on a set of actions?
I always consider what I am seeing and like I said... if I say someone is a tyrant, I'm not referring to their true nature, but to their character/identity within the tonal, since that is the level where we mainly connect with others. Seeing is just another ability humans have if they choose to use it. Choosing NOT to use it is just foolhardy and may result in an early demise. Heh. Ever been in a situation where something inside you says, "Better turn left instead of right"? That's seeing - and you may later discover that had you turned right, it would have been into the path of an oncoming bus. Most times, *seeing* works in the background, as intrinsic as breathing to a warrior. But it can be validated if one takes the time/effort to do so.
I should also make it clear that seeing a person's true self is easy. At the core, the energetic matrix that holds us together is what humans have labeled "love" - though not in any gushy romantic sense, but in the sense of a quantifiable force which we ATTEMPT to define and label, but which, at its root-core, is simply an animus driven & motivated & comprised of the "energy" of "love". Words are only descriptions and descriptions are inadequate, but hopefully you will *see* what is intended here. So... seeing a person's true self is easy. Seeing their character/identity and its motivations is not aways as easy, but every bit as crucial.
You stated previously in another thread the difference between ordinary men and warriors, I think you are onto something with that and think that it applies to this admirably. If a warrior knows nothing matters then it would seem that a warrior wouldn't concern themselves with actions or making those actions matter.
It isn't that someone's actions matter or don't matter where *seeing* is concerned. As with all things, it's about awareness and perception. For example, in the tonal world (where we mostly live, work & play), if I *see* that a business competitor is attempting to damage my business, the awareness of that gives me the opportunity to take action to prevent it. Does it MATTER? Of course not. But in the tonal world, it can mean the difference between survival or extinction, so *seeing* is not some sacred task reserved for prayer circles and meditations. It is a survival mechanism which can be honed, like any other "muscle". WHAT we *see* matters only to the extent that it may determine our own actions.
If a warrior knew it was all folly, you would think that they would look past the folly to the heart of the true authentic person inside. If you saw past the folly to the authentic person...what is it you see when you see?
As stated above, what I *see* at the core of all living beings is the animus of "love" - not an emotional feeling or state of being, but an actual energetic field/force which IS the luminous egg and the totality of the double.
BTW - thanks for some challenging questions. Very refreshing!
Sedna wrote:
But the ultimate 'what is a person really' question. What is it that constitutes a person (their true self in their totality) and what is it you think you are seeing?
A seer sees both - the totality AND the persona (or the "character-identity"). In most cases, the seer isn't judging anything about the person - simply observing, for whatever reason, or just because it's how *seeing* works. For example, I can see the buddha NATURE in people, but I can also see that most people make little effort to manifest that nature. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, just observations in the same way I would observe a tree bending in the wind or a wave breaking on the shore.
Are you seeing them in their totality and if you are could one ever in their totality as their true self be a tyrant as you said in your example?
The true self is never a tyrant, but the character/identity in the tonal certainly can be. Hitler may have had a heart of gold. But that is not what manifested in his actions and intent. His character/identity persona was a tyrant in the tonal, regardless of whatever else he may have been in his nagual.
Seeing a person wearing a red shirt is one thing, but seeing that a person is a saint because saints often wear red shirts is another thing. You say you watch their actions...so just saying...and asking because I want to get this clear.
When DJ saw, he saw only luminous eggs...and not saints and sinners. So again, before giving the answer you always give, consider what is it that you are seeing...their true self or your projection of meanings and judgments on a set of actions?
I always consider what I am seeing and like I said... if I say someone is a tyrant, I'm not referring to their true nature, but to their character/identity within the tonal, since that is the level where we mainly connect with others. Seeing is just another ability humans have if they choose to use it. Choosing NOT to use it is just foolhardy and may result in an early demise. Heh. Ever been in a situation where something inside you says, "Better turn left instead of right"? That's seeing - and you may later discover that had you turned right, it would have been into the path of an oncoming bus. Most times, *seeing* works in the background, as intrinsic as breathing to a warrior. But it can be validated if one takes the time/effort to do so.
I should also make it clear that seeing a person's true self is easy. At the core, the energetic matrix that holds us together is what humans have labeled "love" - though not in any gushy romantic sense, but in the sense of a quantifiable force which we ATTEMPT to define and label, but which, at its root-core, is simply an animus driven & motivated & comprised of the "energy" of "love". Words are only descriptions and descriptions are inadequate, but hopefully you will *see* what is intended here. So... seeing a person's true self is easy. Seeing their character/identity and its motivations is not aways as easy, but every bit as crucial.
You stated previously in another thread the difference between ordinary men and warriors, I think you are onto something with that and think that it applies to this admirably. If a warrior knows nothing matters then it would seem that a warrior wouldn't concern themselves with actions or making those actions matter.
It isn't that someone's actions matter or don't matter where *seeing* is concerned. As with all things, it's about awareness and perception. For example, in the tonal world (where we mostly live, work & play), if I *see* that a business competitor is attempting to damage my business, the awareness of that gives me the opportunity to take action to prevent it. Does it MATTER? Of course not. But in the tonal world, it can mean the difference between survival or extinction, so *seeing* is not some sacred task reserved for prayer circles and meditations. It is a survival mechanism which can be honed, like any other "muscle". WHAT we *see* matters only to the extent that it may determine our own actions.
If a warrior knew it was all folly, you would think that they would look past the folly to the heart of the true authentic person inside. If you saw past the folly to the authentic person...what is it you see when you see?
As stated above, what I *see* at the core of all living beings is the animus of "love" - not an emotional feeling or state of being, but an actual energetic field/force which IS the luminous egg and the totality of the double.
BTW - thanks for some challenging questions. Very refreshing!