01-11-2018, 12:00 AM
Hm.. we are going beyond the scope of the song.. but as long as JJ does not frown on us, I'm cool with that 
. I think the song did an OK job answering the question you asked about the physical reality... Your new posts, however, pose quite a different question/issue indeed, one we cannot answer by interpreting the wisdom found in the song. No matter, let's dive in .
Yes, as a group, the Western society is not exactly in sync. And it may be quite hard for us to find any society that is in sync. Who from among us has traveled somewhere where we found such a society? I found people striving for it and longing for it and trying to do something about it, but I have not actually been to places where maybe there is something like what I'd imagine - I wonder if anything like that even exists anywhere on this earth. I guess here the power is in the fact that I can imagine it - and this is something like a piece of luminosity that is inside me and can live - and in turn, I can live better (even though I am in a different society. I will explain in a bit about how comparing things can be the culprit of failing at stuff in this world hehe but here I'm gonna ask: Would most people not say that the situation, of not being in a society that is in sync when one is aware of it, would create pain and maybe even anger and all of who knows what other burdensome feelings? To know about something one does not have but longs for? Well, here it is where we come to bends - these burdensome feelings are due to bends, if one works on healing themselves then such bad feelings do not take over one's being anymore. There is still longing and maybe sometimes sadness but it is not that heavy burdensome painful sadness and there is hope and a few other nice things).
A lot of what you talk about comes down to education. That is something of great interest to me, and I find it more important than say what Le_Regard is crusading for with the healers/helpers (and getting money for it) and all that (though it is great people focus attention on solving those areas of society ofc, and I hope they solve them well). Education is the only way to reach those people who would otherwise not have the chance to wake up to the possibilities. But, having said that, I want to share an informative story which shows how people actually are:
There was a man who was a father. He was a drunkard and was abusive to his wife and children. He would beat them regularly. He had two sons who grew up and had their own families. The elder son grew up to be a father and husband himself, he was loving and never abusive. The younger son also had a family and became an abusive drunkard as his father was. Both of the brothers got asked the same question: How come you grew up to be this way? And both answered: How could I be any other way given the father that I had.
In your post you make it sound like poverty and bad conditions and such lead to people not having the same chances. This can be the case but often enough it is not. I find it is not about circumstances but one's inner self. Why does one brother turn out to have learned from his father's mistakes while the other one repeated them? To the extent of this question, we can say that it has nothing much to do with what they experienced, it has something to do with their being. And there I would go to the territory of education, the younger brother would have had a better chance if our education were expanded a bit. (maybe incorporated well being of the soul and spirit and how to heal inwardly and all that. I surely think it is more important than knowing how to read and write or calculus or anything else the kids are taught).
But how come the older brother managed to do without it? And I guess you'd say he was one of those you mention as being more resourceful (one who can work toward two goals - survival and enlightenment). And although what you say surely makes the difference for some. I do not think this is the case for that older brother. You mention motivation, and that I would put into the older brother situation for sure. I think some people become aware that there is only one goal - survival --> and to call it more healthily: 'to live' --> then 'to flourish' -- this is what to survive properly actually leads to. And then the question is what that means to them. how can one live in a healthy way if one has not touched the spirit? One can't. And for the older brother, it was about how can one live in a good way (a life worth living) if one abuses those that one loves the most? What kind of a life is that? He made it very clear to himself that it is not the life he wanted. And there is no way he would contribute to anyone having such a life. Thnx to his circumstances he gained insight, and he gained some strength too because he knew where such a path led so he gave it his all to not go down that path.
This insight can be something which education can help bring about...
It is easy to say I was lucky to find the shaman. I will not dispute I was lucky to find her, but it really was not luck as commonly understood - as in not a coincidence. I would say I was lucky that people like her exist in the world... that the world is lucky people like her exist... but see that might not be luck - coincidence either
. Any other person can find her too - she was not hiding. The reason why I found her was because of who I was, it was not a coincidence. I found her because I was seeking something specific (and it was not a guru or a shaman or a teacher for myself). If you don't search you might never find a thing... and this is also where education could be helpful.
.
Pixie wrote:What advice would you give to those who have known only neglect or abuse? Do you think they would even be able to recognize light if it fell into their lap?
I find that those people can recognize light and love much faster than the other ones and they also value it more. In some sense, in this they actually have an advantage. If they allow themselves to face it. For many of these people experiencing it is quite painful at first. So it is about their courage and strength and how much they actually want it in their lives. Quite a few people just turn away from it cause it is too hurtful - but they do recognize it. That is what I think... what I have seen... But I do not think I have seen it all or even enough to know about all aspects of humanity.
I would surely advise them not to give up and to fight for the type of life they want. I would advise them to heal and pursue a path that fosters healing. I would advise them not to lose patience if big results do not come right away. Specifically, it is a bit harder to say in general, but, in specific cases, a few times in my life, I have said things to people sometimes that I knew would have been 98% helpful had they done them. And I have also seen people who have been given functional advice not by me, but did not do what they were advised to do. So the problem is even when a person suggest the first (second, third or whatever) step the people don't do it. I know, I have not done some of the steps myself that were suggested and would have been helpful. So what to do to actually get people to do things? Nothing really, if the people don't want to do, then no one person can force them.
And this is where we falter as people. We are lazy, we get comfortable with our bad sides and we don't want to change. We think we do, but we don't really cause we surely don't wanna work hard for it. And also, why change if we find our bad sides were actually helpful for us - and they well might have been and saved us some bruises or fractures in the past. We don't trust others and we surely do not want to be told what to do.
And even with all of that baggage, many still think they want to be helped and guided and taught. Catch 22?
. I think the song did an OK job answering the question you asked about the physical reality... Your new posts, however, pose quite a different question/issue indeed, one we cannot answer by interpreting the wisdom found in the song. No matter, let's dive in .Yes, as a group, the Western society is not exactly in sync. And it may be quite hard for us to find any society that is in sync. Who from among us has traveled somewhere where we found such a society? I found people striving for it and longing for it and trying to do something about it, but I have not actually been to places where maybe there is something like what I'd imagine - I wonder if anything like that even exists anywhere on this earth. I guess here the power is in the fact that I can imagine it - and this is something like a piece of luminosity that is inside me and can live - and in turn, I can live better (even though I am in a different society. I will explain in a bit about how comparing things can be the culprit of failing at stuff in this world hehe but here I'm gonna ask: Would most people not say that the situation, of not being in a society that is in sync when one is aware of it, would create pain and maybe even anger and all of who knows what other burdensome feelings? To know about something one does not have but longs for? Well, here it is where we come to bends - these burdensome feelings are due to bends, if one works on healing themselves then such bad feelings do not take over one's being anymore. There is still longing and maybe sometimes sadness but it is not that heavy burdensome painful sadness and there is hope and a few other nice things).
A lot of what you talk about comes down to education. That is something of great interest to me, and I find it more important than say what Le_Regard is crusading for with the healers/helpers (and getting money for it) and all that (though it is great people focus attention on solving those areas of society ofc, and I hope they solve them well). Education is the only way to reach those people who would otherwise not have the chance to wake up to the possibilities. But, having said that, I want to share an informative story which shows how people actually are:
There was a man who was a father. He was a drunkard and was abusive to his wife and children. He would beat them regularly. He had two sons who grew up and had their own families. The elder son grew up to be a father and husband himself, he was loving and never abusive. The younger son also had a family and became an abusive drunkard as his father was. Both of the brothers got asked the same question: How come you grew up to be this way? And both answered: How could I be any other way given the father that I had.
In your post you make it sound like poverty and bad conditions and such lead to people not having the same chances. This can be the case but often enough it is not. I find it is not about circumstances but one's inner self. Why does one brother turn out to have learned from his father's mistakes while the other one repeated them? To the extent of this question, we can say that it has nothing much to do with what they experienced, it has something to do with their being. And there I would go to the territory of education, the younger brother would have had a better chance if our education were expanded a bit. (maybe incorporated well being of the soul and spirit and how to heal inwardly and all that. I surely think it is more important than knowing how to read and write or calculus or anything else the kids are taught).
But how come the older brother managed to do without it? And I guess you'd say he was one of those you mention as being more resourceful (one who can work toward two goals - survival and enlightenment). And although what you say surely makes the difference for some. I do not think this is the case for that older brother. You mention motivation, and that I would put into the older brother situation for sure. I think some people become aware that there is only one goal - survival --> and to call it more healthily: 'to live' --> then 'to flourish' -- this is what to survive properly actually leads to. And then the question is what that means to them. how can one live in a healthy way if one has not touched the spirit? One can't. And for the older brother, it was about how can one live in a good way (a life worth living) if one abuses those that one loves the most? What kind of a life is that? He made it very clear to himself that it is not the life he wanted. And there is no way he would contribute to anyone having such a life. Thnx to his circumstances he gained insight, and he gained some strength too because he knew where such a path led so he gave it his all to not go down that path.
This insight can be something which education can help bring about...
It is easy to say I was lucky to find the shaman. I will not dispute I was lucky to find her, but it really was not luck as commonly understood - as in not a coincidence. I would say I was lucky that people like her exist in the world... that the world is lucky people like her exist... but see that might not be luck - coincidence either
. Any other person can find her too - she was not hiding. The reason why I found her was because of who I was, it was not a coincidence. I found her because I was seeking something specific (and it was not a guru or a shaman or a teacher for myself). If you don't search you might never find a thing... and this is also where education could be helpful..
Pixie wrote:What advice would you give to those who have known only neglect or abuse? Do you think they would even be able to recognize light if it fell into their lap?
I find that those people can recognize light and love much faster than the other ones and they also value it more. In some sense, in this they actually have an advantage. If they allow themselves to face it. For many of these people experiencing it is quite painful at first. So it is about their courage and strength and how much they actually want it in their lives. Quite a few people just turn away from it cause it is too hurtful - but they do recognize it. That is what I think... what I have seen... But I do not think I have seen it all or even enough to know about all aspects of humanity.
I would surely advise them not to give up and to fight for the type of life they want. I would advise them to heal and pursue a path that fosters healing. I would advise them not to lose patience if big results do not come right away. Specifically, it is a bit harder to say in general, but, in specific cases, a few times in my life, I have said things to people sometimes that I knew would have been 98% helpful had they done them. And I have also seen people who have been given functional advice not by me, but did not do what they were advised to do. So the problem is even when a person suggest the first (second, third or whatever) step the people don't do it. I know, I have not done some of the steps myself that were suggested and would have been helpful. So what to do to actually get people to do things
? Nothing really, if the people don't want to do, then no one person can force them. And this is where we falter as people. We are lazy, we get comfortable with our bad sides and we don't want to change. We think we do, but we don't really cause we surely don't wanna work hard for it. And also, why change if we find our bad sides were actually helpful for us - and they well might have been and saved us some bruises or fractures in the past. We don't trust others and we surely do not want to be told what to do.
And even with all of that baggage, many still think they want to be helped and guided and taught
. Catch 22?