Answers come before the question

[messengerpidgeon]

Forget about closed doors ,
This ones open ,
Welcome ,
I am the fire that is written in the water ,
Drink as much as you like ,
I see
You ,
Neither am I here ,
A doorman for many years .

[serloco]

"Only by stealing his choice, will you defeat him. And there is no way to choose for another."

Exactly, thee is no way to steal another's choice. You can not choose for another without consent.

[Xlyer]

Cool name man.I look forward to your posts.Cheers

[watergaze]

Hi. I did not have much time to ask you stuff, was traveling, but wanted to say hello and welcome (especially since I saw how stuff could evolve here). Now I have a bit more time and here are a few questions that I have when reading what you wrore.
nameless wrote:Starting over from the beginning...What prompted you to start over? You give a hint saying "something within me has to change." I would like to hear more about your path and what got you to stand at this very important milestone. I understand it might be personal, so ofc I wont be offended if you skip answering this. I do find, however, that these stages in our lives are very important.
nameless wrote: I saw some topics that seemed to be of great interest to me... What is it that interested you most around here? I ask this because one thing I would really like to know is what got you (or anyone else for that matter) onto this path. And also what is the thing or aspect that really draws your attention, gets you enthusiastic and makes you feel alive, drawing you to the path?
nameless wrote:"Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day when one’s body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one’s master. And every day without fail one should consider himself as dead."
...
I've been reading the Hagakure almost as a religious text for over 15 years, and the concept of facing death and keeping him as a companion is not lost on me.This Hagakure seems to be an interesting text. Could you say more about this passage and the benefits of doing as it suggests (other than the typical Castaneda line: death is your adviser)? Why would I want to imagine all sorts of different death for my body every day? I do not think my body would like this . The body has a great intent to survive and it might be that I could better link with this intent through such an everyday meditation. However, is it not like a torture for the body to imagine such things for it over and over and over?
nameless wrote:I have walked with many shaman before.What shamans have you encountered? As in from what kind of tradition?
nameless wrote: I have seen true power displayed by others.[/nameless]What do you consider true power?
nameless wrote:You speak of the human form as though you have already lost it. I know men that have accomplished this feat, and in no way do you resemble them. Do tell how do these men seem to you . What are they like, how would you describe this-them...?

[rosygyro]

Death is a great topic.

imagining myself as a particapent in the film CUBE. nanofibre snares slicing and dicing the body into ten segments. each segment a different dimension of manifestation, somehow the body held together.
Or those same fibres slicing through the body dividing the adhesions between internal organs, separating lung from membranes of heart, cleaving flesh from bone or  plasma from iron.


the death of the physical self is important to tackle as one day it will happen. The death of the mind is something we should also tackle but as it naturally decays "after" physical death people never really have to do it as a practice or discipline. without the hormones and endorphins supporting the ego anymore it really is the wrong time to tackle infinity.



[link=http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com ... 30ca4b.jpg]
Third image[/link]

(edited formatting at request of poster. last picture messes up the thread so it is given only as a link)

[rosygyro]

sorry for messing up the page i think its too wide now
i think my

sentences where too long.
sorry, i thought it would autoCROP.
any admin feel FREE to adjust.

[nameless]

watergaze,
Years ago I was "at the height of my power." I had control over dreams, reality, the past and future, so on and so forth. But I had no control over myself. I was on the verge of dying myself, but I didn't like the person I was. I back away, and decided to focus solely on tempering my temperament. Trying to become a decent man. When I first start this journey many years ago, the goal was ascension, not power. I was becoming obsessed with the idea of power, but I was not responsible enough to make good use of it. I knew I would end up destroying myself. So, nearly eight years later, I feel I may be ready to start actively pursuing shamanism once more. What needs to change in me now is a bit harder to define. I need to revert back to the non-thinking state of mind, I guess you could say.

Right now the topic that interests me most is the flyers mind and shedding it. Most topics are interesting, but this one seems to be very important to me right now. As for what makes me enthusiastic and feel alive? Life itself provides that gift. There are tales of ascension, hints of reincarnation, a vague promise of life after death in some form. I'm not sure exactly what lays ahead, but I do hope to find out. I enjoy life, and death seems like such a waste.

Meditating on death isn't for the body, it is for the mind. Forcing ourselves to contemplate these things helps us strengthen our resolve, initiates the mind into the potential outcome of any endeavor. When we think of death, we think of the pain. As we think of the pain involved with death, it starts to move from the unknown into the known. As this transition occurs, the fear surrounding it slowly dissolves. As the fear of death dissolves, we find ourselves more resilient in the face of danger. It's not intended to be a morbid and grotesque practice, only something to prepare us for the inevitable.

I've met all sorts of practitioners over the years and from all different walks. I have met pagans, wiccans, druids, christian healers, general practitioners, and a few genuine toltecs. As I understand it, the toltecs I met have a lineage that extends far into the past. My best friend and I were both seekers when we first met this strange man. I had no particular religion, and he believed in the power of hallucinogens. This man we met worked with us. I have very few memories of interactions with him, but I certainly remember his character with great clarity. I did not know that he had already recruited my best friend into his lineage, and did not know this until many years later. I remember the specific point he had tried to recruit me though. I was already fairly aware of the world around me on an energetic level at this point, though I did not follow any written set of practices. I was sitting in the break room with this man, and he was reading Journey to Ixtlan. He was a quiet man, kept to himself. He was an older gentleman from Russia, and quit unassuming in appearance. Being a person that likes people, I sparked a conversation about what he was reading. He casually stated it was nothing really, and we were silent for a few moments. I could tell he was observing me carefully and with a slight smile. It was when I felt the thread of his intent attempt to reach around me in an effort to deceive me that things got interesting. He knew I was aware of his intent when I stopped it with my own. I turned to look at him, he shrugged, and went back to reading. That was my last encounter with him. Years later I moved to another state to join the friend that was recruited. He had already introduced me to Castaneda years before, so I was not unfamiliar with the practices. The things he showed me over the next two years are stories that will have to be shared at a later time. Running a little late as it is, to be continued.

[Guest]

nameless wrote:rosygyro,
Certainly starting to not feel welcome. 
Heh, don't let the initial welcome wagon fool you.  There are many members who prefer to observe prior to interacting.  Heck, there are even some members who prefer to think before they text.  Though, I am very surprised Watergaze posted so soon; she's one of those who usually waits or chooses not to interact on the open forum.

Interesting  

You know, it was just the other month I was telling someone how great it would be if we could attract a higher quality of intellect.  Notably, by filtering out posts which were nonsensical or aggressive.  Yet, you've proven me wrong.  Apparantly, the lack of quality control did not deter you.

Welcome?  The house is a bit messy and the residents are a shade restless, but the orderlies have survived.  It's progress.

[watergaze]

Hi, before I respond to your last I am going to post what I have already written, some remarks to the lines you have posted in this thread (before the last post).

I love the Bukowski quote
nameless wrote: I have nearly lost my mind to things I could not understand. It is always interesting to me the pressure that the mind has to endure at some points of our hmm apprenticeship/warrior-ship. It is freeing when the mind stops meddling or seeking control over this aspect of our lives. Our mind is more flexible than we give it credit for, all it needs is to learn its place in the conglomerate of our being. As we learn to trust other aspects of ourselves the mind stops freaking out .
I suppose you have discovered as much, since you are here and seems to have kept your sanity (to some visible extent at least )
nameless wrote:"It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this." Due to devoting attention to dreaming I want to respond to this even if you might not have had such a meaning in mind. One of the most profoundly helpful elements in my life, and ones that have made a better person of me and have aided me on my path towards knowledge was that when I was a child (and later on as well) I did not discredit the reality of my dreams, I did not wake and tell myself that it was 'only a nightmare' or 'only a dream'. With us having so much to learn, dreaming offers a venue that one would be a fool to disregard.
Coming to the point you were making I'd say that realizing there are different realities or dreams in the tonal as well, is what aids one to shake off a bad 'dream' or reality and to venture into or try to create a better dream for oneself.
nameless wrote:I no longer have interest in grand displays of power over others, or impressing people with my feats. That road is a dead end. I agree, everything that is not needed on the quest for freedom, on the path of knowledge is a burden. Power can be one such thing. If power is indeed not needed, I surely do not want any part of it. It is enticing and it is alluring to many, but it is also a trap. It can bring one down very easily because it attracts attention and brings a gazillion hindrances in doing so. etc.
nameless wrote:Thoughts, opinions, and beliefs too quickly become shields and barriers. There's a lot to be said about identity, probably a good starting point for an interesting conversation.You are welcome to start a thread on this topic. It is such a big bite to take on though . Right now JJ is working on looking into beliefs so he too might have some things to say on the matter.
nameless wrote: I do have a weakness for not being able to keep my mouth shut at times...Well, nobody is perfect
nameless wrote:I also have a weakness for being blunt, but never with the intention of being rude. I'm not insensitive, but I certainly don't see the point in tiptoeing around the feelings of sorcerers when I don't even do that in my daily life. Would you not agree that "do to others as you would like them to do to you" or "treat others as you yourself would like to be treated" is not the most impeccable stance to have towards other beings?
There are a few things that show this is not the best attitude/setting to have:
It presupposes we are all the same and function/need the same, etc.
It is obvious that if one has an unhealthy attitude to oneself that this then spreads to an unhealthy attitude towards others.
Also there are, imo, no masters here. One might have devoted a lot of time and attention in one field, say mastering one's emotions and then is very good in certain aspects. Others might have tackled a different area more pressing to their particular lives and are not as far in this aspect but on a different aspect. These two individuals could learn a lot from one another if their judgments of each other would allow that .
nameless wrote:Certainly starting to not feel welcome. I was trying to tell you before that there are more people around here than the few who will write a lot and respond to almost everything (ones that it seems you respond to as feeling unwelcome). I can tell you very clearly that you are welcome here and I am sure I am not the only one who would like to read some things that you might like to share. So, yes, there are more people around, it just takes a little time to get to know them. There is the surface and there is the backbone and there is also the stuff in between .
nameless wrote:Tell me, what do you see in me? Tell me, what offence have I given? Tell me, what would you like to see in me? No, I don't intend change who I am. But I do wish to understand what is actually happening here. If by 'what is actually happening here' you refer to starting to not feel welcome, then I hope I have explained above at least a little.
Here I would like to point out, however, that setting out to not change based on what you can learn from others' comments is not such a helpful setting to have. Why not be open to what you might realize from interactions with others? I would have thought fluidity is the better setting here. But, up to you ofc .


P.S. nameless wrote:I don't know how to do those cool little quote bubbles You type [ quote] (without the spacebar) then you copy paste the sentence you want to quote and finish with [/ quote] (again without the spacebar). If you would like to indicate who the quote is from you type at the beginning [ quote=name] (without the spacebar).

[watergaze]

nameless wrote:Years ago I was "at the height of my power." I had control over dreams, reality, the past and future, so on and so forth. But I had no control over myself. The first part of the statement is hard to imagine in this context. How can you have no control over yourself and have control over the things you say you did. It makes no sense. Basically, since dreams, past and future relate to yourself, spring from yourself, and since you say you had no control over yourself, therefore, you had no control over dreams, reality, past and future either. Sorry to go logical on you . But... ok... having had my fun... I do understand what you are saying . Next, it would be interesting to know what helped you get control over these areas and what degree of control you had / have over them. I am different to you in that I put first what you, based on what you say, put last. Funny how people work... You say you did not like the person you were and decided to change. I congratulate you on that. Also, I would say that seeing your own ugliness is an important step on the path. One that is basically unavoidable if one is to progress and start getting rid of one's s*hit and shitty behavior. Shamanism is about the inner self. What is outside of ourselves? Some things maybe are, but to reach them in any way we have to again look at/go through the inner.
nameless wrote:I was on the verge of dying myself, but I didn't like the person I was. You mean you almost died? Your phrasing is a bit strange I am not sure I am interpreting the sentence right. The two meanings I see in the sentence are: "I was on the verge of dying" or "I was on the verge of killing myself". I keep the second meaning as an option because it makes it pretty interesting that you would not kill yourself and go on with a self that you found dislikable. Either way, you seem to be saying you had control over your death and decided to step back and do some more work.
nameless wrote:Trying to become a decent man.
....
So, nearly eight years later, I feel I may be ready to start actively pursuing shamanism once more. What needs to change in me now is a bit harder to define. I need to revert back to the non-thinking state of mind, I guess you could say. These formless, powerful shamans that you spoke of before, did they not function as role models on this matter? Were they not decent and fair? Were they not magical?
I am not sure decency goes by default with the non-thinking state. At least in the sense that our thinking faculties can be helpful to us when pursuing this matter.

I think you have picked a good goal / thing to focus on, not that it matters what I think . But I am glad to hear someone is focusing on something really worthwhile, in my opinion.
nameless wrote:Right now the topic that interests me most is the flyers mind and shedding it.Yes, I see the connection. Imo the best way to go at flyers is my own awareness, full vigil over my own mind/being. Doing lots of self-stalking and bettering of myself while keeping a look out over my inner processes. It is then easier to spot stuff that does not come from the inside, but the good thing is lots of helpful stuff comes from the outside too, it is not just flyers that are out there . Therefore, there is lots of hope for human beings...
One thing a person needs to deal with though is that we are responsible for our own ugliness, not flyers.

What part about shamanism propels you onward and makes you feel alive? Is it really stories and tales of ascension and promise of life after death? Interesting. I am not convinced in the sense that that is more a thing you hear or read about and not something you experience yourself (not for a very long time at least). (But then, one might experience the dream or idea of it, hmm.) However, if something not directly experienced has so much value to you it is really nice of course. It is almost magical . For me, it is something I can experience. You did not ask and I do not feel a need to share here . Maybe some other time.

Coming back to my question about the death meditation and how I wonder if it would be good for the body.. You say it is not for the body but for the mind that this is done. Of course, but it still affects the body as well. The body is a sentient organism, it has its own awareness, memory, intelligence, you name it. If I think of burning, my body dislikes it . My body is the one afraid, not my mind (my mind has already been tended to, to a degree, whereas I am just discovering the body). My body does not want to burn. My body does not want to be left behind either. One of the things I am trying to figure out is how to accommodate the wishes of my body. My body is doing so much for me here on this planet, I would not want to torture it. Given ofc that I am surely doing things that are not best for my body, but so far it is a work in progress. I was, therefore, wondering if you are aware of the body when doing this meditation and how it is affected (if at all). But if you are not that aware of your body and put all your focus on the mind etc, then you might not be able to answer my question. I do like what you write about the process and aim of the meditation though. As unlikely as it sounds (me not being a veteran and such) I have also faced death. No prior meditations , but I kept my cool, made my peace, summoned all of my awareness that I was able to and faced it with a sharpness that was surprising to me. The shift that happens when this is going on, I wonder if that can be trained by such a meditation (you seem to be saying yes, thus it seems it could be useful). However, I do not think such a state is sustainable 24/7 (surely not in my current state, but I wonder if that is even desirable, I'd say no, but what do I know ).

I would appreciate if you could revisit one thing from my questions post. I would like you to describe how men are, in your experience, after they have lost their human form. (I rememberedd that you actually gave an answer to my question concerning what is true power in one of your previous posts, you said it is power over ourselves. So no need to go into that again).

Thnx for sharing a part of your story, looking forward to it being continued. Interesting stories are one of the great things that come from talking to people on the path.

[nameless]

Kaomea,

Thanks for the welcome(?). I don't mind the welcome wagon, but right now I'm particular about who I would prefer to interact with. When I say I've met many shaman before, not all of them were enjoyable company. But I'm sure you know how that goes. I don't mind people being what they've chosen to be, but that doesn't mean I want to have anything to do with it. There's something to be learned in every encounter, I can only hope to retain enough presence to understand what it is. Anyway, thank you.

watergaze,

Here comes the long response. I was aware that I skipped the question about formless men, but did not have time to explain it earlier. I'll go ahead and start with that now.

Now, I'm a simple man of simple intelligence, and I never made it as far as some of my associates. But I do remember energetic signatures of people quite well. As I discovered later in life, I have been seeing the energetic structure of people my entire life, and have always relied heavily upon those impressions in dealing with anyone. Now the men I know that I say have lost their form all had one thing in common, they were inaccessible. These men were always beyond reach, never predictable, and could see right through you every step of the way. They were never given to the reactions you might expect of them, they didn't follow the "rules" of normal behavior. Their motives were always unclear, and they felt threatening because you knew they were always beyond your reach. They didn't share the common concerns of the common people, you could tell their eyes were always set on some point hidden behind the stars. They were strange creatures, and barely recognizable as humans at all. I've only met two that have achieved this feat, my best friend and the man who taught him. Hope this clarifies.

The mind was clinging to the proverbial shores of the great river, not wanting to let go and enjoy the ride. No doubt that if I had let go, I would have realized there was little to worry about in the first place. I simply didn't like where I was. The mind is flexible, but how quickly our own blinders can make it rigid. I just didn't feel ready for the steps I was about to take, so I withdrew.

The metaphor of the dream was used only to point out that we will not take our riches and treasures with us into whatever lays beyond this life. Maybe we'll remember what happened in this life, maybe our soul will intrinsically remember the lessons it has learned. But the numbers reflected in my bank account today will mean nothing in that next life. I definitely agree that there is much to be learned from our dreams, and I treat them as being just as real as the waking life. But when that dream is over, all that remains is its memory.

I actually started fleshing out a post on identity and personality, but it's going to take time to complete before I post it. I tend to be a bit busier these days, and I'm still trying to get my mind to fluently think in abstract ways. It is coming though.

I actually love the golden rule. I aim to be as helpful as possible to everyone I meet in life. I greet every stranger with a smile, and rarely hesitate to extend a helping hand. I will go far out of my way to aid anyone that needs it, within reason. I've learned a lot about helping others, and the great trick is to not further enable a person's sense of dependency on the aid of others. There is no "blanket technique" that applies to everyone. Learning how to effectively and genuinely help others requires a lot of trial and error experience, at least in my case. However, for better or for worse, I do not stand down when confronted. Not when I realize what is at stake. I have to keep in mind what the actual goal is when faced with opposition. Sometimes you're confronted with a person who does need to be shut down, a man that needs to be "stopped" before he injures himself or others. And I certainly don't profess to be a master in this arena, I am still quit humbled by my failures in this regard. Hindsight is always 20/20. I don't know if my way of doing this is really impeccable or not, but I could never stand seeing "truth" be crushed by "evil." I always felt that as much pride as I take in this sense of honor and integrity, it could easily become a weakness. I will have to think on this a bit more closely.

I am glad that you and others came forth, because I was seriously starting to reconsider my choice to interact. I'm not claiming my level of understanding surpasses that of others, but I do wish to be a bit particular about who I interact with. This is a conversation much more my pace and tune, so I thank you from the heart.

I should have clarified on the comment about not being willing to change, because you are right. We need to be fluid and adaptable, and that's something I knew and believed when I made that comment. The point of the comment is that I am not yielding or compromising my stance just for the comfort of others, not that I won't adjust if something I need to know is presented to me. My fault for not clarifying.
watergaze wrote:You type [ quote] (without the spacebar) then you copy paste the sentence you want to quote and finish with [/ quote] (again without the spacebar). If you would like to indicate who the quote is from you type at the beginning [ quote=name] (without the spacebar).

Thanks

You are absolutely correct, there's no way I could have that level of control without some degree of the same over myself. Once again, I did not explain correctly. And the correct explanation was just in my head...but now it's lost. So I'll do my best to say what I can. At that "height," I was far from "absolute power," but that didn't stop me from believing too much in my own sense of power. I am not strictly toltec, but I have learned a great deal over the years. Many of my techniques are not taught by Castaneda or Ruiz, but nonetheless they have proven themselves through my experiments. The things I've seen myself do...I don't know how to describe it. I don't now is the time to try to, but I will later. Anyway, all of this "power" was coursing through me, the fabric of the universe was my oyster. But I had none of the wisdom necessary to wield it. I was well aware that a person can experience ego death, but never find enlightenment. On a side note, the first post I wanted to make in this forum was about the actual fate of Castaneda himself. Oddly enough, the sources I was going to use for my theory have been removed from the internet. Anyway, I was a hothead. Arrogant, easily offended, vindictive, and not always a pleasant person. I hurt a lot of people, and didn't seem to have a lot of interest in using my "power" for anything good. I was able to see what I was becoming, and feared what my fate would be if I continued. It was at that point that I withdrew from the abstract world and enlisted in the United States Army. My life was going to %##@, and I needed to correct course quickly. I knew that the army would grant me the opportunity to really hone those disciplines I lacked. As luck would have it, I was right. But along that new path, I refused all searches for "power" and "magic." I wanted wisdom, and every day I'm grateful I made the choice I did.

What I mean by "dying" was that from what my shaman friend had pointed out, I was right there at the precipice of ego death. But as I said above, I knew that didn't mean I was destined to become a good man. I know that there is no such thing as good and evil, and that all life is is a matter of choice. It's all just an experience. But I still have to live with what's in my heart, and I didn't want to be the man I was becoming.

The toltecs I knew were fine men, wonderful people. I can't speak too much for the teacher of my friend, as I did not have the chance to engage with him as much as I would've liked, but my friend himself was and is a good man. But he also had his own set of problems. I know that he had the "true sight." I saw him demonstrate true power, showing me things that ripped my mind apart. He was a true toltec, not a man beset by personal quests. But he was not me, and I was not strictly a toltec. He was much more indifferent to his fellow men than I was. My bleeding heart left a mess on the living room floor, and he would just shake his head. He was probably right to some degree, but I had many questions about how sane he actually was. I'm never given to trusting metaphysical knowledge before it's been proven, and he had not conclusively proven the points he was trying to teach me. I was on my own, as far as real learning goes. Was he a good role model? Well, he was himself. And I am myself. We are two different people on two different paths, holding two different sets of ideas. We learned much from each other, but in no way did I ever feel inclined to model myself after him. All I could do was observe his energetic being, and compare it to myself. And there's only so much I can learn through this method. I know that ultimately I am supposed to be indifferent, but I still have to be comfortable with who I am. I still have to live with myself, and the only way to do that is to follow the dictations that come from my heart. I did not share the ideas that their hearts spoke, so I could not use them as role models.

I'm interested in the flyers mind, but I'm not seeking answers I'm not ready for. I blamed the ego for my problems for many years, finally remembering that I have to take responsibility for who I am. It's just a creature that needs to feed, and who am I to judge? I eat the cattle and the chicken, just the same as it feeds on me. But blaming this thing gets me nowhere, it's my job to take control of my life. I'm interested in learning more about flyers, but I'm not seeking confrontation just yet.

To answer what propels me onward into shamanism, I think, requires a bit of backstory. In a nutshell, I was raised in a strong christian household. In my teen years, I was able to see the flaws in their logic, but I could never shake the idea of God. I looked at the world around me, the question of who and what I really was never stopped burning within me. I was aware. I was alive. There were so many mysteries going on around me. Life itself was the great question. Once I turned from the church, I began to practice "magic." I had a friend that helped me learn how to do my first few spells, and that changed everything. After successful spell after successful spell, the truth became evident. At that point, I knew there was nothing more important I could do with my life than pursue the answer to the question of what was really going on here. I kept asking more questions, finding more answers, and I have no regrets about any of it.

I never really thought about how that meditation affects the body. I don't think I'm aware of the body in the same way you are, so your insight is very helpful. I've honestly never observed a negative effect from these meditations, but there may have been some on a level I was not aware of. If there was any, and honestly this might be a good explanation, it would be that my body has a hard time relaxing. I am always tense, always ready for the fight. I have always seen the value in this, but rarely stop to think about the negative aspects. This deserves serious attention. To give a little backstory, before I found Castaneda, I had developed the idea that a man confronted with death will exhibit more focus and power than ever before in his life. I pondered upon the idea of using this state of mind on a daily basis, constantly living in this frame of mind. I was actually fairly successful in inducing it, but I never stopped to think of the consequences. Now that I think about it, I am always tense and ready to move. I move in a straight line, and I don't like obstructions. Relaxation is a feat I'm rarely capable of. You've given me something valuable to think about, and I am very grateful for it. This is what I came here for, exactly this.

I have not had serious magical discussions in nearly eight years, and I miss them very much. Magic has more or less been absent from my life for nearly eight years. There are hints of it here and there, always lurking behind the edges of reality. But it hasn't been "real" in a very long time. In future posts, I might explain why I am just now coming back to this side of life. Even my old shaman friend has been reluctant to have these conversations with me, as much as I beg him. He has his reasons, but I have no contact left to the other side. This place, I'm hoping, can help me once more step back into that great unknown. Speaking and writing of magic is of great help to me, gets the mind back into all that abstract. If all goes well, I don't intend to veer away from this forum anytime soon. All of you have all of my gratitude, and all of my heartfelt thanks.

[Guest]

nameless wrote:
watergaze,

I am glad that you and others came forth, because I was seriously starting to reconsider my choice to interact. I'm not claiming my level of understanding surpasses that of others, but I do wish to be a bit particular about who I interact with. This is a conversation much more my pace and tune, so I thank you from the heart.
 
Watergaze,

This is precisely what I wanted to avoid: detering intelligent individuals due to "noise".  The noise is why some moderators refuse to post in the open forum.  Intelligent people avoid the noise like they might the plague.  Fortunately, not all intelligent people have abandoned the open forum.  I'm not a fan of censorship, but remaining on-topic or at the very minimum open to alternative viewpoints is reasonable to enforce, I imagine.  It is rare to find people like nameless who are willing to see past the flurry.  Imagine how many others, similar to him, have ran the opposite direction without posting.  
Now, I'm cool with the chaos.  I don't mind living within an asylum.  It's kinda interesting, to be honest.  On the other hand, you enjoy these kinds of conversations (with people like him) and the intellectual stimulation.  It would be a shame to dissolve such experiences.  

I want to attract more like him.  Creating an inviting atmosphere may help accomplish this.  Think, there could be four more like him.  You wouldn't have enough time in your day to respond to them all.  You would be tickled with anticipation.  Moderation doesn't have to be unjust.  It merely requires posts to adhere to a basic level of maturity and openness to the differences of others.  Allowing the harassment of quality posters will most definitely deter them from posting; specifically, I'm thinking of Dan Jones as one example.  

How many more Dan's must we lose before we realize there's a problem?



Nameless,

Great post.

[nameless]

[Billy]

Clueless (ooops, I mean, nameless)...  I have slowed my modus operandi down enough to have objectivity about what is ever present in my life.  My initial responses to you involved opaquely contrasting alternatives to choose from.  Which, is to say I easily could have said something 'nice.'

    I may be wrong, but I sense you value the concept of objectivity.. of creating space to derive gestalt-like clarity about your own experience

   These words caught my eye---> "I had developed the idea that a man confronted with death will exhibit more focus and power than ever before in his life."  

    My experience of 'deathground' is that death confronts, but I summon my awareness so as to dismiss fate and coalesce around profound "I."  I was shown how to prepare and ground my life by manifesting the responsibility of choice.

    I'm not confronting anything... more at 'with it.'

     I was teasing with the 'clueless' remark.  I would like it very much if you would share of your obvious maturity. 

Welcome, nameless.



   I SEE, you just met Kaomea

[watergaze]

Hi nameless,
long responses are fine with me . Sru it took me a while to respond with yuku moving sites to new servers and the site being down for a couple of days, but it seems everything is running smoothly now. I love talking with others about the interesting things on the path and learning from them or having a back and forth about ideas on certain things, but one (as in me ) needs to have a few things come together in order to be able to post. Maybe you can come by the chat to have a talk sometime, people start being real faster.

I like your explanation of formlessness. It feels real what you describe, especially the threatening aspect. I can very easily imagine this being the case, uncomfortable for the ego or mind of the other people.

Ideally, when the dream is over what remains is our experience, knowledge and awareness . Memory, yea, still working on that one .

What I mean to say is that hopefully it is not just memory that remains, our experience is transmuted into learning and awareness. I have realized that working with our experiences, whether from dreams or from this here reality, is crucial for us to tighten the awareness linked to these experiences. It is like building a staircase out of blocks. One block is the dream, another block is our memory and for example writing it down, another block is working with this written down or remembered part and maybe looking at a certain aspect that stood out, another block could be writing a story or a song linked to the feeling or experience, etc. Of course we might not have the time nor might it be wise to devote such meticulous procedure to every dream or experience that we have, but that is not what I want to focus on here. It is almost like squeezing a lemon. The dream is a taste, a smell... but keep at it and at the end one has a delicious lemonade .

I have a lot to learn in the department of when and how to stop stuff that needs to be stopped .

So is it finding your truth that gives you the enthusiasm and spark to live and walk the path? Or mystery?

I'd like to hear more about your death experiences. It is intriguing.

I agree, blaming gets us nowhere. Many of the things we do are just habits anyway and they have no real substance at all. Is it not fascinating and terrifying at the same time?

I am glad that I could offer a different angle or layer to look from and that you accepted this offer and are making your own discoveries . I would say that it is ideal to have a kind of feline-like relaxed but 'in readiness and action at any moment' type of body setting. I am not there though . One can achieve the ready to whatever mode and not have tenseness. If you allow your body to relax I think it would be very glad. I wonder how it is for veterans though, I always tend to imagine that stuff one experiences can have an enormous impact on us. I found that any kind of block in my mind or awareness made my body less relaxed, as in, more tense. But, what I am not happy about, is that also other people's tenseness makes me tense. If I am near a person who is in a certain bad state my body starts to feel similarly strained.

But thinking about this, you must know, as a person who has been in dangerous situations (or so I imagine) that allowing the body fluidity to do its own reacting and movement is life-saving. I wonder if you can allow the body to have this fluidity if you are perpetually tense. I am always fascinated if I see a person that is in this relaxed state of readiness and fluidity. Martial arts is in this sense a useful discipline

Seems natural to me that energy which has a purpose does not like obstructions

Thank you for sharing a part of your story with us. It has been a nice read . Hope to read more from you, so, till then

[Guest]

Nameless,

I have a question for you. Perchance, are you aligned with the falcon? Strange question, I realize. I hope you'll entertain my silly thoughts with a reply.

[Senear]

Welcome nameless. The old Russian? You met him in the tonal, not in dreaming if i read your post correctly. I suspect, but do not know, it is the same man i had begun to call "Dimitri". That was not his name. But it was the name he gave me on a card, with a cell phone number. This was a basic test of the person. To receive the card, be able to remember it, and call the number. It is one of the most basic tests they have. It is, in fact, something i have employed. Writing notes in dreaming, and leaving them for them to find. For them to see them, and contact me about the contents. I'm not Dimitri. I am happy when they say i got your note, but can not remember the contents. The contents are generally irrelevant. Sometimes it is bad poetry, random numbers, or a smiley face. You have already been greeted and talked to two of the four people who ever remembered getting a note, so that's something. Good discernment on everyones part all around.

The Russian summons individuals and gauges their potential in different dream contexts. nd in the tonal it seems as well. There was some relation to the dream hackers group out of Russia, but it was tangential, he was rather dismissive of them as children. Workman like, almost like a businessman, but the business is not money or even power. It is...something else. Sorry. I read the thread, and saw much that was of interest, however, like the man with limited attention i am, i only responded to the thing that adressed a specific mystery i have been ruminating off and on for some time. I do apologize for the indulgence, and once again, welcome to the forums.

[Guest]