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Remember what you silence in others you silence in yourself, no joke Turin, truth. By silencing my voice you silence your
own. My poem is within the subject of the post, it belongs in context, it belongs as part of the flow here. Instead of answering my
question, you deleted it so i will address you with it again: Do the
rules state you have to post in prose?
This forum will end up sucking from lack of spontaneity, beauty and
truth if you keep chopping it--even whatever gonzo wrote--and you know
that he and I don't see eye to eye on much except good food and haiku poetry(at least i think, there could be more). I would like to decide for myself
instead of have you deleting these facts of the flow, gonzo might have added a good point. You know I **** about this dogging he does but I never complained to wolf or asked for anyone of those love and light brigade cynical stancers to be censored or removed in anyway from this forum.
Last night Asiris told me you've been deleting him, he told me that
deleting peoples posts at pp was why he left there and now your gonna
bring that vibe over here? I have loved this place for its spontaneity and I know I am not the only one...is that to be buried now? Wolf?
What is wrong with a relief in the tension via comedy? What is wrong
with comedic stalking? Even the great man Juan dealt comedy. He would be
laughing his ass off at all this back and forth on the stalking thread
and this "powerful" chopping you are doing while you think you know
what's right.
In the mean time I am getting some good self stalking done and recap thanks to the old jack wagon wheel spontaneity but if this chopping and silencing keeps up all you are going to teach is is the One Right AP point.
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I'll check into it Lunoor.
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I agree with with lunoor. Most forums usually allow discussions to get pretty heated at times, nothing wrong with that at all! when I was admin I wouldn't go looking for fights to break up i would more or so wait until someone sent me a PM with a complaint and did my best to message all of those involved.
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~
Tilting at windmills is an English idiom which means attacking imaginary enemies, or fighting unwinnable or futile battles. The word “tilt”, in this context, comes from jousting.
The phrase is sometimes used to describe confrontations where adversaries are incorrectly perceived, or courses of action that are based on misinterpreted or misapplied heroic, romantic, or idealistic justifications.
For those not as complex:
Whine: To snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way: Ex: He is always whining about his problems.
Elias, it's nice to still see you participating. Since you're still around could you reply to me here? Hurt 'feelings' and bad experiences, reply #11 I'm interested in this 'accessing of power' in which you mention in another post.
SHM
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This section of the forum is for questions and answers, suggestions, comments and complaints.
A complaint is not always a negative, or an indication of a person's failure to grasp truth. In many cases its a strength to speak up under pressure or what have you, and many times the person who does has a valid point to make. So just wanted to bring some dimension to the word complaint as I believe its intended here.
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Using your weight to shove me out of your way, eh madman? You don't like being soundly mocked, it's bad for your polished self image, your vain idol. You haven't yet posted any significant self stalking. Wei was right in saying you didn't show any vulnerability in the first and when you outbursted that you had taken many lives that wasn't difficult for you either, you have said that in chat. How about some real self stalking, the stuff you don't want people to see, the stuff that would reveal you to yourself? I realize now that I stepped into a steel trap when I posted my self stalking thread and kissed your butt by being happy that you smiled and mentioning your Don Juan ambitions when in an ap too soft, now you can say I am having issues with you, no wonder it made you smile. You are very clever, more so than I thought, much more clever than me mm but have you slain your idols? Do I have to tell you what those idols conceal? and how could I except with my jokestick poking? You seem to know this but do you know this gnosis? You seem to want this but you have a hard head, break the jug?
You can give it out but you can't take it
Wolf, I am a poetingclown, a fool and a Loof in training, my knowledge has to come through poetry and goofs if I can't be as I am here how can I be here? I am not merely wanting to protect my self but yeah that is part of it, my self that's newly emerging and comes from thespirit,I still have my ego here to subdue, this battle longs for elsewhere towards the two that make the tripod on the forehead. That is, bring the duality(s) to a third through their marriage. If I can't do that here, who else can? If this place doesn't support gnosis growing for one it doesn't support it for anyone and damn man, then the forum doesn't get to be a part of the larger tripod that is trying to connect through it. It misses it's honor. I wish rosy would return, he wasn't afraid of exposing his own ass, his "robot clown". He was knowing gnosis. Madman is stuck on an ap that won't acknowledge that spirit, that wisdom, speaks many languages and through many tongues, even some he can't understand. He clings to that One ap. A dull cater gory.
Turin I invite you to publicly stalk my ass instead of hiding behind a moderator cloak and taking the sizzors way out. I invite you to be challenged instead of safe. I invite you all the same...
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The Battle is not futile.
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Lunoor, I understand.
Working on Self is tough work and outbursts such yours are too be expected.
Please feel free to lash out at me anytime you'd like. Just remember to keep bringing it on home!
SHM
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It's more than tough jack, and you can use some work thinning your stack too. It's not all lashing out and outburst madman, you choose your words carefully and they suggest that my observations are merely outbursting and lashing out here. You are sophisticated enough to know how such things get tangled during the work. You are intelligent enough to know this doesn't make all such observations false. Why don't you tell a tale of your own twists? Can you post about sorting these twists out?
I still see turin as doing a poor job moderating. Apparently it was she who dumped a whole string of GS's posts that he posted to other folders into sorceress(plus some others) and now she has begun to delete without even posting that she does so and why she does so. I don't think she has done enough work on thinning her ego to be moderating. Is she to be above questioning now? Asiris' haiku that was on the zen thread is an example of that axe. Yes, it was critical of her policy of deletion(and a good poem), rightfully so, and now it's not being heard because she cut it. I challenge her to moderate with her heart, wits, and guts more often than not and to trim her own ego hedge.
As for the language: humor, poetry, and metaphor are legitimate carriers of information, just as prose is. They move through different channels opening up different perceptual faculties than the usual prose, a good thing for a place dedicated to opening such doors. There placement in a thread of mostly prose can be a window for spirit to peek in. This forum has a healthy history of such writers and they didn't used to be required to post on the entertainment thread only.
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Now you are making things up Lunoor to support your frenzied loss of balance.
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What is she making up Turin?
I remember reading her poem and thinking to myself, well done Lunoor. She didn't seem to be viewing this as a battle, more like an explorer saying, whoops, this rockface is too steep to climb, let's take that path, instead.
It didn't appear to me that help was needed, it looked like they could each take care of themselves.
Was there something that made you feel uncomfortable Turin, that incited you to step in?
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Turin you might want to mention what you think I am making up. If you are referring to your deletion of Asiris' poem, trying to say it was never posted well, that's on you, you know it was. Actually i remember it, it went soemthing like:
When thoughts are deleted/the forum becomes/a sham.
If you didn't put all those posts that mostly GS made into sorceress who did? You were moderator at the time it occurred and I recall you didn't like some of GS's posts. Most of those were once posted on shammanic warrior I believe.
Come on turin, can't you use what I say to stalk yourself? Can't you moderate in a less deleting way and if you do delete at least own up what you did with a post and an explanation? Miss B is right, we were each taking care of ourselves, madman didn't need you to defend him and he took an insulting tone to begin with with his mamby pamby and jackwagon.
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Lunoor You are lashing out blindly and have made so many accusations and complaints now that Im not sure where to start. GS put those posts in Sorceress along with many others which I moved to the Tone forum. I have no problem with his writing, and in fact I miss his presence here a lot.
I apologise for moving your poem, I think I must have misunderstood it as I read it in the context of the attacks on SHM that you posted right before it. I will be more careful in future. My motive for the deletions was to stir up a bit of examination and discussion about the posting of personal attacks and insults to other members. Thats all. It wasnt personally directed at you or anyone else. As I have said before, the amount of mud slinging on here is what discouraged me and others from joining in and posting in the past. So many threads lost steam from people airing 'hurt feelings' in a spiteful and immature way. My motive for becoming a moderator was to help to make it a better place.
And on the subject of stalking myself, I am relentless in this in everything I do. But that doesnt mean that I dont benefit from being stalked by others, and I welcome critical observations and will consider them seriously if the motive is not just someone having an obvious kick.
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Just wanted to make an observation and suggestion. After listening to a few discuss moderation issues in our chat, it's obvious there's no right or wrong way to go about such a job. No matter what people will not be satisfied with decisions. That being the case, maybe it'd be best to let the rugrats hash it out a bit on the forums. Shm is doing a wonderful job of stiring the pot and bringing up festering issues. Since everything is up in the air, let's make the most of this situation.
It may appear to work against keeping the threads kosher or a safe place but maybe it's time everything comes out into the open. On top of that, Turin, if people are very upset with your methods, maybe let them fend for themselves and see how they do. Only come into the picture if people message you privately. A few here actually enjoy being told to '*** off' so long as there's a valid reason behind it. Gonzo and Shm seem like they'd welcome such an assessment if it held any truth to it. Not everyone needs protecting. I guess it could look bad for newbies who come onto the site and read our forums but bleh, it cycles back to freedom of speech and it will truely be a melting pot of diverse perspectives. So long as noone complains, why not let things air out a little.
Sometimes we gain the greatest perspectives when we allow ourselves to take a step back from what is bothering us.
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Kaomea that sounds like a good plan.
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Re the question and answer forum, I'm sure Wolf will respond to Lunoor's question when he returns.
"maybe it'd be best to let the rugrats hash it out a bit"
hmmmm, rugrats? Respecting POV?
I see here, regarding this matter in general, an attempt to label people into a category, and then when they protest to say thats something they need to stalk in themselves. Its very tricky though, these types of certainties and assertions.
Yes members are hashing it out, but what is being hashed out? Some rugrats who need to stalk themselves? Or some who are drawing distinctions between approaches and perspectives and trying to establish an edict? Or both? Or neither? How to get beyond all the confusion? On all sides.
Burn from within.
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I included myself in the term 'rugrats'. Turin has agreed to take a more laid back approach because it's clear her current methods are not satisfying most. She's adapting her methods to the needs of others and it's aligning more with your methods Wei. I would think you of all people would appreciate the change regardless of the reasons behind it.
There is no point to be had, point to be made, or winner in any of this. The only objective is to find a workable solution so that everyone can exist as one... as schizophrenic as it all may appear.
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Kao, its great you can voice your view, so even you saying rugrats is still valid to say, and my response valid too. Yes, I knew in my singling out that point it would make you feel targeted. I did want to bring attention though to how we give labels, so even if you give yourself that label, its worth looking at. You can decide to change it or not, and it makes you neither right or wrong nor me. There is no right or wrong, its all maddening really, but we learn to see and know, and this is just the process. We all speak, we all agree, and disagree. We all say meaningful things, as you have. My post was about what gets beyond the multiplicity. Its not aimed at Turin. I was talking to all of us, including myself.
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Ahhhhh I had misread your intent! I like your angle on this. Thanks for clarifying what you meant and you are right about labels and how they are intended should be considered before they are used and why we use them. I'm just going to assume you don't want a real analysis of my usage of 'rugrat' ... it's tedious and dull. Great use as an example though!
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Turin, I know that many of those posts that were in sorceress were not there to begin with, I recall them being in shammanic warrior, GS didn't post them in sorceress originally and I don't think GS moved them there unless he was a moderator and I wasn't aware of that if he was. Maybe someone besides you moved them though, so if that's the case then I am wrong in guessing it was you. I recall talk in chat wherein you stated that you thought those posts should be somewhere else, and at that time they weren't in sorceress. I recall talk in chat wherein you stated your dislike of the altered Don Juan quotes, saying they were disrespectful of DJ. There was some discussion about creating a new forum for humor but it didn't materialize and then they showed up in sorceress, based on that talk in chat I assumed it was you who moved them. I wasn't speaking my mind as much at that time so I didn't make a post in sorceress asking why they were put there as I thought of doing, so as to not make waves. I am not so afraid to rock the boat anymore if I feel strongly about something and I feel strongly that posts shouldn't be deleted or moved from their context except in rare cases, if at all. There are alternatives in most cases.
Wei reminds me that when those posts were put in sorceress that they spawned some good discussion and that is true. In including them in my proofs I was being rather hypocritical, I apologize for that.
Now, I am more than ready to drop this so long as posts aren't unjustly deleted and moved. This whole affair has been really good in stirring up issues in myself for examination and for giving me bigger peeks at my 10 pounder hamburger ego. For that I am thankful.
Wei this burning from within takes time : )
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Lunoor, you and Wei and whoever else wants to can carry go on like this till the cows come home if it pleases you to do so. So drop it or not at your leisure.
You are mistaken in what you say above. I left those pictures of GS's in Sorcery because discussion did come from them, the rest of the pictures didnt, and so I moved to the Art/Media/Music folder Tone.
Im glad to hear this has helped you see yourself. Its been interesting to watch the responses, including my own. Who are we when we dont get our own way? is often a truer indication of where we are at than how we behave in 'peacetime'.
I think its been a useful exercise all in all to raise the profile of the concept of responsiblility for what we are actually doing when we post. What are our motives for posting? And this is not directed at you Lunoor, but all of us including myself.
I will be taking more of a backseat now, its not my forum and I hear some valid points being made about freewill, so if people want to **** on each other, I will not interfere unless it becomes obscene or threatening or suchlike.
"The world is your exercise book, the pages on which you do your sums. It is not reality, though you may express reality there if you wish. You are also free to write lies, or nonsense, or to tear the pages." Richard Bach
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Well....tempering a good moderator is sometimes not a pleasant task. We, they, I make mistakes, have in the past will in the future. When I solely held the reins then it was all on me, when I hand then to Turin, Wei they might go down a different path then I but is that bad? Sub forum moderators direct the path of the their forum so to speak but general mods protect the forum(s), members and try to make them interesting and if they want to move posts, thats fine. Moving posts is not a problem I can see. A picture goes in media etc. If SHM has no issue with his posts being moved then its not your battle Lunnor, only his thus I do not see why its a issue with you. What happens to others is their issue Lunoor.
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Wolf the largest part of my complaint related to turin deleting posts, and then beginning to delete them without posting a notice that she did so or any explanation. The other largest part of my complaint was her moving my poem from its rightful context, it was a poem noting I'd had revelations(though i spelled it wrong) and an invitation to play, to stop fighting. It wasn't in any way insulting. That bit about posts being moved to sorceress was brought up only near the end and as I stated, I am sorry I mentioned it because it brought some good discussion when it was moved into the context of the sorceress subforum.
It was my battle Wolf, because I care about free expression and because it interfered with my free expression. I enjoy expressing freely, listening to others who do so too and I think it is vital to the forum for members to be able to do so.
You know wolf, none of this tempering that you speak of would have happened here if I hadn't complained, if no one speaks up about wrongs nothing changes, not a chance.
So its unclear to me whether it is against the rules to post in other than prose except in areas designated like the tone and the zen poetry thread. If I have a reply to a post somewhere else or an idea for a topic for say, Modern Nagualism, do I have to do so in prose?
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